David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

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Loog
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Loog »

it's been discussed exhaustively, I'm sure you've had this exact debate at least 5 times with Nessie

a question I have not seen answered: why has not a single German (or anyone, in or out of trial) substantiated the mass migration hypothesis?

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Turnagain
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Turnagain »

Loog wrote:
it's been discussed exhaustively, I'm sure you've had this exact debate at least 5 times with Nessie
Nessie excuses the testimony of the alleged eyewitnesses and substitutes his speculative "What if" and "coulda woulda" scenarios. That doesn't qualify as discussion. Why do you seem so reluctant to discuss how the killing and body disposal was accomplished?

Loog
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Loog »

I'm not a scientist and neither are you

Turnagain
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Turnagain »

Loog wrote:
I'm not a scientist and neither are you
I've completed the usual undergraduate science requirements for a degree and several elective classes in mathematics but don't call myself a "scientist". However I do have the requirements to speak using scientific methodology so let's not let that hold you back. Begin with citing a witness and quoting him.

Loog
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Loog »

what classes did you take? do you have an understanding (for example) of how bodies or remains of bodies decompose in varying climates, soil conditions, and depending on manner of death or physical condition at the time of death?

I have not studied this so would not be able to verify your claims anyway.

All I'm trying to point out or interrogate here, and this is probably my final word to you unless you say something interesting, is that the documentary case for mass murder at death camps is incomparably stronger than evidence for the alternative. I am trying to see what you guys can even come up with so we can make an honest comparison. So far you have shown evidence of 2 transports in the fall of 42 (none from Poland!?). I'll wait to see if this is it.

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Huntinger
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Huntinger »

Loog wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:23 am
I'm not a scientist and neither are you
This is off topic and nothing to do with the question. Your question is "where did they go", these 2.5 million people. I think that a feasible answer is that they were used for work purposes; Dutch juden have mentioned that they had been billeted in up to 16 camps, including Sobibor (which was vacant of people) for an over nighter, then other places like Mathaussen, Auschwitz; in fact all over the place. Others took over farms vacated by the Poles when the Russkis departed in a hurry; many had been deported into the Russian interior prior to this. Many were sent into Eastern Poland and Belarus on foot for work purposes while others worked on farms in the General Government; Sobibor for instances was a likely transit forestry lager (it was a forestry camp prior to the war and still is now). The Reich had 708 konzentrationslager so I am sure there was enough room for 2.5 million undesirables.

One must keep in mind that Ashkenazi and Sephardi have a series of diseases unique to their race; being put into camps or work environments without the proper medication would have severe detrimental effects on their health and well being leading to early mortality; this in conjunction with declining conditions of hygiene, diet and typhus including dysentery would have an adverse effect.

Of course many juden were rounded up for being NKVD collaborators and partizani, paying the full price for their terrorists acts at Czerwony bor, the place of execution. Czerwony bor to non Poles sounds like Sonibor and was designated a Treblinka extermination camp by the Polish underground; no prisoner who entered left to tell the tales. This was an old polish military camp in the Czerwony bor forest and now a penal institution.
the documentary case for mass murder at death camps is incomparably stronger than evidence for the alternative.
There is no documentary evidence, only hearsay and propaganda. If you have some documentary evidence then please produce it.


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Turnagain
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Turnagain »

Loog wrote:
All I'm trying to point out or interrogate here, and this is probably my final word to you unless you say something interesting, is that the documentary case for mass murder at death camps is incomparably stronger than evidence for the alternative.
Loog previously wrote:
there's no documentary evidence of this...
So, while there's no documentary evidence of mass murder, "the documentary case for mass murder at death camps is incomparably stronger than evidence for the alternative".

What is clear is that you have no evidence for the mass murders or the body disposal at the AR camps. You are simply declaring that hoary old hoaxer claim of, "If it happened, it was possible". I assume that you will use this to refuse to speak to the realities of the holyhoax claims after this. IOW, you're empty, Loog.

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Admiral E. Rastus
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Admiral E. Rastus »

Loog wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:42 am
Admiral, do you know German? Can you quote some text from the chapter or a document referenced in the footnotes that evinces mass migration post-summer 42?

Or are you just assuming that such text exists?
I gave two page numbers, which you seemingly ignored. The discussion has advanced now that you've seen the table. The departure dates are mostly based on Vienna police reports. The other page has footnotes with small quotes from those reports. I'm not "assuming" they exist and have seen them quite aside from this book chapter; it's a nearly complete set, they span the whole war. There was a relatively small pool of Jews to deport and the so-called evacuation started in October 1941, around the same time Jewish emigration was banned. Your favorite blog says that policy changed in December 1941, and yet there is no hint of that, despite the set of documents being replete with "to the East" references, including in relation to those transports to the Occupied Eastern Territories way later in 1942.

At the beginning, I asked whether you want documents you'd claim are forgeries, or documents you'd have a hard time to. Because you saw these transports are acknowledged, though rarely discussed and hardly explained, you proceeded to play loose with the timeline and haggle.

Next document: VEJ Bd. 06 (2019), Dok. 200 is a Finance Ministry memo dated December 14, 1942 (p. 537, also quoted in the Policy chapter of Mattogno/Graf's Treblinka book):
Als bei Ausbruch des Krieges die Auswanderung nach Übersee nicht mehr möglich war, hat er die allmähliche Freimachung des Reichsgebietes von Juden durch deren Abschiebung nach dem Osten in die Wege geleitet. In der letzten Zeit sind außerdem innerhalb des Reichsgebietes Altersheime (Altersghettos) zur Aufnahme der Juden z.B. in Theresienstadt errichtet worden. Wegen der Einzelheiten Hinweis auf den Vermerk vom 21. August 1942. Die Errichtung weiterer Altersheime in den Ostgebieten steht bevor.
The cited August 21, 1942 memo has not been identified by the VEJ researchers. Later in the document there are complaints about the Theresienstadt "home contract" schemes, which covered living expenses and whatnot, because they are within the RSHA sphere and do not confer adequate control of the funds to the Finance Ministry.
Last edited by Admiral E. Rastus on Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Admiral E. Rastus
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Admiral E. Rastus »

I suppose it's impossible to have a 1:1 discussion, being a forum, so instead of toying around with Loog I'll point out early for readers' benefit that is likely a reference to facilities within the Incorporated Eastern Territories of the Reich. Why were the evil Nazis, at some point in the latter half of 1942, intent on setting up multiple areas to accommodate elderly Reich Jews at the outskirts of the Reich, not even letting them make the arduous multi-day trip to the East, if Herr Hitler gave the extermination order for all Jews in December 1941 per bloggers? Is it much like today, where Germans send retirees to facilities in present day Poland due to low costs, but not too far East? Ta.

Turnagain
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Turnagain »

Admiral E. Rastus wrote:
I suppose it's impossible to have a 1:1 discussion, being a forum...
The floor is yours, Admiral. I only wanted to point out that there's no proof or even substantive evidence that Treblinka functioned as an extermination facility. Please continue with your well researched answer to the wail of, "Where did they goooo?".

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