David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

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Loog
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Loog »

torus9 wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:07 am
Huntinger wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:30 pm
it is hardly conspiratorial
Pardon this brief visit of mine. You're referring of course to Loog's mention of "conspiracy town", which typically infers an intellectual superiority to such notions or a simple recognition of patently obvious rabbit holes filled with UFO's, Knights Templars, and Bohemian Groves.

Below, Michael R. Marrus discusses Hitler. He's citing Raul Hilberg and The Destruction of...

"What he actually meant, or whether he really meant it, might have been a matter of tone as well as language. When he spoke 'coldly' and in a 'low voice' about 'horrifying' decisions 'also at the dinner table,' then his audience knew that he was serious. 'From one to another, Nazi leaders transmitted the latest impulse."

Sounds like a tougher code to crack than Enigma. Whether I really meant that or not, you'll have to decide.
What is so odd about homo sapiens "conspiring", breathing together in hushed tones? And what makes any one of us above being duped by one?

Again, pardon me.

Now wash your hands and put that damn mask on!
I edited out the conspiracy comment from my reply to the admiral, a low blow perhaps and not very constructive.

However I will say that motive is necessary to commit conspiracy.

What was the motive for the Germans to destroy and conceal all evidence of mass migration to the East?

What was the motive for Allied governments to do so, when they'd already won the war? This is a difficult and unreasonable undertaking, considering all the possible witnesses who likewise need to be controlled, and the fact that not all evidence can be sifted through. Important documents kept turning up decades after Nuremberg. If such a conspiracy was revealed that would be a big prestige hit, especially for the US/Britain. So a lot to lose, not very much to gain. There were alleged war crimes enough to sentence scores of Nazis to death, they didn't need a holocaust.

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Huntinger
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Huntinger »

Loog wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 am

What was the motive for the Germans to destroy and conceal all evidence of mass migration to the East?

What was the motive for Allied governments to do so, when they'd already won the war? This is a difficult and unreasonable undertaking, considering all the possible witnesses who likewise need to be controlled, and the fact that not all evidence can be sifted through. Important documents kept turning up decades after Nuremberg. If such a conspiracy was revealed that would be a big prestige hit, especially for the US/Britain. So a lot to lose, not very much to gain. There were alleged war crimes enough to sentence scores of Nazis to death, they didn't need a holocaust.
All of Poland and half of Germany ended up under Soviet control for about 40 years. The Soviets had an extensive secret polizei as well as a desire to hide their atrocities attributing the blame to others. The other allies were in appeasement mode with Stalin, thinking it was best not to poke sticks at the bear. Their staff of 7 million liars could forge any historical event they chose. Most of the NKVD and Soviet Hierarchy were Juden.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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torus9
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by torus9 »

Loog wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 am
However I will say that motive is necessary to commit conspiracy.
And I'm not being confrontational with Huntinger or yourself. Nor am I being off topic in a thread concerning David Cole when I mention a harmless character named Ernst Zundel and "conspiracy." I approach this entire topic, ie, the holocaust, with an absolute dearth of "anti Semitism." My sympathies concern the travesty of justice and the breathy hushed tones of those who conspired to deport Zundel. What "motive" would they have to imprison an intellectual cockroach in their eyes and levy a cumulative 7 years of solitary?

According to Israeli novelist A. B. Yehoshua:
"As the number of survivng eyewitnesses to the period diminishes, the more freely will human imagination range in its attempts to achieve understanding. The horror of the events and the sufferings of the victims will not rob the new attempts-including new emotional and moral judgements - of legitimacy. The freedom of man's spirit suffers no restriction. Hence we must be aware that further study is liable to inflict new pain and WILL SOMETIMES REQUIRE THAT GENERALLY ACCEPTED VIEWS, WHICH, IT SEEMED, WERE FIRMLY AND SOLIDLY ESTABLISHED, BE ABANDONED." (emphasis mine)

- The Holocaust in History, Introduction, p.7 citing A.B. Yehoshua, Between Right and Right,

His poetics expose a lack of depth. Is his assertion indeed a two-way street? It certainly can't be that 7.2million Jews were murdered. Yet who am I to assert that? None the less, like Zundel, he makes a case for revisionism.

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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Loog »

Huntinger wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 am
The other allies were in appeasement mode with Stalin, thinking it was best not to poke sticks at the bear. Their staff of 7 million liars could forge any historical event they chose. Most of the NKVD and Soviet Hierarchy were Juden.
Nonsense, how many Germans were convicted at Nuremberg (joint trials, not the soviet only trial in leningrad) over Katyn?

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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Huntinger »

Loog wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:07 am
Nonsense, how many Germans were convicted at Nuremberg (joint trials, not the soviet only trial in leningrad) over Katyn?
Nürnberg is not relevant to the point that 7 Germans were hanged by the Soviets while 3 were gulaged never to resurface for their alleged Katyn atrocity. Katyn was attempted to be presented to the NMT by the Soviets:
DR. STAHMER: I wanted only to add, Mr. President, that according to this document, there are two accusations: One, that the period of the shooting of the Polish prisoners of war was the autumn of 1941; and the second assertion is, that the killing was carried out by some German military authority, camouflaged under the name of "Staff of Engineer Battalion 537."


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Loog
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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Loog »

Huntinger wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 am
The other allies were in appeasement mode with Stalin, thinking it was best not to poke sticks at the bear. Their staff of 7 million liars could forge any historical event they chose.

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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Huntinger »

Loog wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:18 am
Huntinger wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:01 am
The other allies were in appeasement mode with Stalin, thinking it was best not to poke sticks at the bear. Their staff of 7 million liars could forge any historical event they chose.
That quote has no comments which is a common jootrix used at klowns, which alludes to the posters allegiance including potential integrity. The comment in the previous post was referring to the ЧГК but taken out of context by the poster Loog.
To clarify, wiki mentions the following:
The Commission's full ceremonial name was: "Extraordinary State Commission for Ascertaining and Investigating Crimes Perpetrated by the German-Fascist Invaders and their Accomplices" (Russian: Чрезвычайная Государственная Комиссия, ЧГК... ChGK). The official aim of this agency included "punishing for the crimes of the German–fascist aggressors." According to its own data, 32,000 regular organization staff took part in the work of ChGK. On top of that, around 7,000,000 Soviet citizens had participated in the collection of materials and evidence.[/b


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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Turnagain »

Loog, it's known for a fact that the AR camps didn't function as killing centers. The tales of steam/vacuum/gas chambers plus all of the rest of the associated garbage is pure bullshit. So, if the Germans killed all of the Jews, where did these mass murders take place?

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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by been-there »

Loog wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:33 am
What was the motive for the [Allies] to destroy and conceal all evidence of mass migration to the East?
What was the motive for Allied governments to do so, when they'd already won the war?
Image

Image

Sefton Delmer was born and educated in Berlin, Germany and self-identified as ‘Jewish’.
German was his mother-tongue and he spoke English with a slight German accent.
When Stafford Cripps discovered the deceitful, immoral, dishonourable, destructive nature of the black-art psychological operations Delmer was perpetrating, he wrote to Anthony Eden, then Foreign Secretary saying: "If this is the sort of thing that is needed to win the war then I'd rather lose it."

Chaim Weizmann wrote:
"We are not afraid to confess that this war is our war and that it is waged for the liberation of Jewry...
Stronger than all fronts together is our front, that of Jewry.
We are not only giving this war our financial support on which the entire war production is based, we are not only providing our full propaganda power which is the moral energy that keeps this war going.
The guarantee of victory is predominantly based on weakening the enemy forces, on destroying them in their own country, within the resistance.
And we are the Trojan horses in the enemy's fortress.
Thousands of Jews living in Europe constitute the principal factor in the destruction of our enemy. There, our front is a fact and the most valuable aid for victory.
"
Sefton Delmer admitted that his mission was to discredit the Germans in the eyes of the whole world with atrocity propaganda.
The Jewish involvement in orchestrating atrocity propaganda isn't a topic that historians can freely and openly discuss. It never has been.
The Americans had their Jewish-led and operated psyops agents also. Where do you think the shrunken heads came from?

Certain files are still off-limits and protected under official-secrets acts LONG after that should have expired.

The question of logistics for forward transports from places like Treblinka — as H-believers have argued — is a pertinent one and needs to be answered. Sure! I have no dispute with that. Of course that needs to be also researched and explained for an accurate and impartial 'history'. Absolutely!

But that presupposes that such research is permissable and encouraged. It is not. In reality, the situation is the exact opposite. Such research is considered 'anti-semitic' and is criminalised.
Has LOOG forgotten that? :ugeek:

Asking amateurs for the logistics presupposes that
i.) ALL the information is easily available and that
ii.) approaching and sifting the available information is permissable.
But we all know that is NOT how it is.

So the problem with h-believer's — and all the court historians' — argument seems to me to be that in both points that is NOT the case and NEVER EVER HAS BEEN the case.
Ignoring this aspect seems to me to be the real stupidity.

How can you forget this or ignore this??

• Didn't you know what happened to investigators and witnesses such as Rassinier, Stäglich, Christopherson, Lüftl, Zündel, Faurisson, Hayward, Rocques, Reynouard, Rudolf, Haverbäck, Stolz, etc., etc., etc?
• Aren't you aware that certain known files are still off-limits in Britain and Russia??
• Did you forget the allegations from German speakers that translations of show-trial transcripts were redacted?
• Have you forgotten the admissions of psy-ops people like Sefton Delmer?
Who knows what other unknown documentation is off-limits or was deliberately destroyed?

SUMMARY of the above:
1. Let's get ALL the known documentation freely and easily accessible FIRST!!

2. Then SECOND let's get ALL 'secret' files and documents (or records of their destruction) relating to psy-operations, forgeries, coerced testimonies, redacted interrogations and any and ALL deliberate deceits ADMITTED and out in the public domain.

3. Then THIRD let's stop demonising investigation (and persecuting and punishing investigators) as 'hate speech' or as 'anti-semitism' or as 'holocaust denial'!!! :ugeek:

THEN, we can have a proper investigation on a level playing field.


But its still the exact opposite.
• The files are still off-limits.
• The criminalisation of questioning this aspect of WW2 is becoming increasingly and more-widely protected with 'thought-crime' legislation.
• The mass-media and film industry continue to spread distorted, emotionally manipulative, pseudo-historical propaganda dramatisations for mass-consumption.
• There is STILL no official admission even of the known cases of forgeries, psy-ops, coerced testimony, destroyed records, etc
• Anyone who questions ANY aspect of this compulsory belief-system is ostracised and demonised with damaging smears.
Etc., etc.

. . . . . . .

I think people here have a tendency to become too fixated in arguing rigidly and aggressively over the small details.
The bigger picture is as I have described above, and thus nobody really knows with absolutely certainty what happened. And I think that has been intentionally engineered to be like that.

As someone who is agnostic on the actuality and/or scale of the mass-gassings allegation, I think everyone on BOTH SIDES of the debate needs to acknowledge their own ultimate unknowingness, FIRST.
That would go a long way to calming the conversation down a few decibels.

And SECOND let's be honest about the fact that what is currently passed off as a sacrosanct and overwhelmingly substantiated 'reality' is definitely NOT that, but has become more like a religious belief system.

Image

As Michael Hoffman pointed out, people who don't believe in the New Testament as accurate history are not insulted and persecuted as 'resurrection deniers' or as 'anti-Christians' or as some form of cultist degenerate.

The fact that anyone who even mildly questions, or even slightly steps out of the permitted areas of debate, is so demonised, demonstrates that we are NOT just dealing with historical fact here but are ALSO stepping into an irrational and emotionally loaded mine-field. Let's not forget that either.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: David Cole's 1994 IHR Conference Speech

Post by Admiral E. Rastus »

Loog wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:42 pm
To counter this, can you provide a single German document/testimony as evidence of mass migration after the summer of 42 that we might discuss?
Do you mean documents you'd claim are forgeries, or documents you'll have a hard time to?

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