How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

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Grover Furr
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Grover Furr »

Aaron Richards wrote:I love how everyone has derailed this thread from "how long does it take for an infant to be creamted"

to the same old chewed out "how long does a body take"

More proof there's barely any moderators on RODOH :D
To just quote Zimmerman since you won't trust a revisionist source here is what he says about crematoriums from the 1800's.
The use of cremation ovens appears to have begun sometime in the 1870s. It is known from cremations carried out in 1874 that a 47-pound child could be cremated in
25 minutes
, a 144-pound woman in 50 minutes and a 227-pound man in 55 minutes. [104] In 1875 it was reported that a body could be cremated in 50 minutes. [105]
These are an accurate comparison for the ovens in Auschwtiz.

It took the ovens about 40 minutes to cremate an adult, that is based off the math I have done.
"I have spent many years researching this and similar questions and I have yet to find one crime that Stalin committed."

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Lily
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Lily »

Shyster Zimmerman is quite wrong, Mr Furr.

The cremation issue handled here, Zimmerman crushed:
see: http://codoh.com/library/document/921/
he Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau
By Carlo Mattogno

Here's another Revisionist source which demolishes shyster Zimmerman:
'holocaust' Hist. Project's Zimmerman - more deception'
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=544

So then, where are the remains that are alleged to still be at Auschwitz? :lol:

So called "holocaust eyewitnesses" making absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims is not the exception, but the rule.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

visit the CODOH Revisionist Forum
https://forum.codoh.com

Pa Gromheizer
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Pa Gromheizer »

Like I said, Aaron, go ask the people that do it every day. Get off your lazy keister and visit a few crematoria. Then report back to us with your findings. Don't waste these peoples time with your infantile questions.

Nessie said: "At least in this debate account has been taken that the bodies at Birkenau were naked with no coffin, whereas cremations usually take place with the clothed body in a coffin, so there is more to burn."

Pa replies: Your are partly correct. If the body was in a coffin the wood would act as fuel. However the offset of additional heat produced by the burning of wood must be calculated. So calculate it. Take into consideration the wood and the thickness. Nessie is correct about the breakdowns as they are well documented with the refractory materials paper trail.
Firebrick is a delicate material and directions for installation and proper use must be followed or failure is a foregone conclusion. Pictures of the urns reflect the Germanic respect of the human body. Unfortunately the typhus problem caught them off guard and caused them all sorts of body disposal problems.

Like I said, Aaron, do your own research. Use the brain you were born with and reach your own conclusion.

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blake121666
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by blake121666 »

My Gusen thread turned into a bit of a mess; but the tally list for Gusen as supplied by Bob was:

Image

I've made a few markups to it.

If one were to just look at the tally for 11/7/41 one sees that the double muffle gas cremation ovens which were converted to run on gasified coke cremated 94 adult corpses (there were only adults at Gusen) in no more than 33 hours (11/6/41 22:15 to 11/8/41 07:00). I think these cremations were done in about 25 hours; but it took AT MOST 33 hours. 94 cremations in 33 hours in 2 muffles is about 40 minutes (42 minutes actually) per corpse per muffle. The procedure outlined in the Topf manual has a new corpse inserted into the muffle after the first one drops through the grate, and therefore there is about 20 minutes of overlap there where essentially 2 corpses are being cremated together. Each body would average about 60 minutes to cremate, but there's a 20 minute overlap; hence about a 40 minute average. This is the slowest possible cremation rate for that particular tally day (11/7/41).

I am of the opinion that those 94 corpses were cremated in about 25 hours - implying an average cremation rate of about 32 minutes per corpse per muffle.

Given that this Gusen oven was a gas oven converted to run on gasified coke, the Revisionist claim (as, for instance, made by David Irving in his Lipstadt trial) that the average coke use per corpse is the average used for this oven is quite suspect. This is not a coke oven we're talking about here. This is a gas oven using gasified coke. One would think that the gasification step creates an inefficiency.

Just getting straight what the Gusen tally sheet was, what the oven setup was, ... etc made that Gusen thread of mine a real mess. I thought about putting a cleaned up discussion in "Formal Propositions" part of the board; but haven't gotten around to it (and probably won't).

W.R.T. infants being cremated: that'd take a negligible amount of time. How it factors into overall cremation times is negligible as well though. There were not a significant number of infants cremated in the Holocaust. Dealing with averages (which would include women, children, infants of course) is what is done when discussing large numbers of cremations. The large numbers makes it much much more efficient, as stated again and again in Mattogno's treatments of the subject (surprisingly so to me actually). The averages go WAY down when done in large numbers. Asking how long a single cremation of a single infant would take is very misleading. It would actually take a long time to fire up a cremation oven and cremate a single corpse. A single cremation is orders of magnitude less efficient than an ongoing mass-cremation process.

Lily
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Lily »

Blake, please consult the link I posted:
The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau
By Carlo Mattogno
http://codoh.com/library/document/921/

The cremation times, coke usage, etc. are handled rather well.
I'm curious what you think.

Thanks.

So called "holocaust eyewitnesses" making absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims is not the exception, but the rule.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

visit the CODOH Revisionist Forum
https://forum.codoh.com

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blake121666
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by blake121666 »

been-there wrote: But Blake, you DO talk as if you are an expert. That is the impression you give. Either that, or you talk with an assurety that implies you think you know more than the average person. Yet you didn't even know that HCN gas is invisible and refused to acknowledge expert articles as evidence provided to you of this.

Now you claim 30 minutes or below for an average cremation time!? :o
What does the color of HCN gas have to do with this? There would be dampness in the alleged HGC scenario or in a straightforward Zyklon fumigation of the rooms and therefore I suspected there'd be a light-bluish hue from condensation as claimed in whatever you are referring to here. I've never fumigated with Zyklon though and have never claimed that I have. Hence I am no expert and am not claiming to be one. Why you bring this up in this thread where I mention Mattogno's treatment of cremations is strange. I straightforwardly TOLD YOU I don't know how a Zyklon fumigation visually appears. You make it sound as if I said otherwise. I looked at what you wrote and AGREED with it. Sheesh!

My initial post was referring to what Mattogno claims. And, again, I claimed that I am not an expert. I'm just passing on information as read. It turns out to be a very very complicated subject though. I was merely pointing that out: the initial post was somewhat impertinent - more is involved than implied in it.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html
Mattogno wrote:6.6. Conclusions

1. The shortest time required for a cremation resulting from experimental data referred to in this chapter is that of the Ignis-Hüttenbau oven in Terezín: 35-36 min. However, it is necessary to keep in mind to what this duration refers to and what made it possible. [... etc]
I felt the tone in the OP seemed to imply that it is Revisionists that needed to firm up their understanding of the cremation claims. That might very well be the case; but it is Revisionists who have done the serious studies of this subject, NOT the Holocaustians. I'm sure Mattogno spent a very considerable amount of time, effort, and thought on these matters. Well beyond that I've seen from Holocaustians.

Grover Furr
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Grover Furr »

Lily wrote:Shyster Zimmerman is quite wrong, Mr Furr.

The cremation issue handled here, Zimmerman crushed:
see: http://codoh.com/library/document/921/
he Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau
By Carlo Mattogno

Here's another Revisionist source which demolishes shyster Zimmerman:
'holocaust' Hist. Project's Zimmerman - more deception'
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=544

So then, where are the remains that are alleged to still be at Auschwitz? :lol:

So called "holocaust eyewitnesses" making absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims is not the exception, but the rule.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

visit the CODOH Revisionist Forum
https://forum.codoh.com
I think you missed out on one major point Lily... Which said "SINCE YOU WON'T TRUST REVISIONIST SOURCES".

As well Mattogno says that cremation inside the muffle its self lasted between a half hour to 40 minutes... This is exactly what I have been saying. This would have an extra 20 minutes added via the ash collector but this can be brushed aside. In reality these crematoriums cremated a body every 40 minutes, or at least that is when a new body could be inserted.

Also mind that the Zimmerman quote I have presented wasn't really arguing much out of reality...
The use of cremation ovens appears to have begun sometime in the 1870s. It is known from cremations carried out in 1874 that a 47-pound child could be cremated in 25 minutes, a 144-pound woman in 50 minutes and a 227-pound man in 55 minutes. [104] In 1875 it was reported that a body could be cremated in 50 minutes. [105]
Now might you explain how Mattogno explained William Eassie's, Cremation of the Dead (London:1875)? From what I can tell Mattogno's essay from Codoh that you have provided doesn't even mention William Eassie. You're 2nd link to yourself doesn't provide something against it ether. Mind that William Eassie's finding's go against Zimmerman's time of 25 minute cremation for adults.
Actually, the Gusen information for November 7 which shows 94 bodies burned in 19 hours and 45 minutes, or about 25 minutes per body, would have been more compelling information for the argument he was trying to make. However, he was unwilling to admit that a body could be burned in 25 minutes under any circumstances.
This is what he says about the Gusen time sheet but Mattogno has explained why zimmerman is wrong. I would direct you to read Blakes thread on the matter.
"I have spent many years researching this and similar questions and I have yet to find one crime that Stalin committed."

-Grover Furr

Lily
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Lily »

I certainly trust Revisionists.

What about:
William Eassie's, Cremation of the Dead (London:1875)?
What are the specifics?
Were they cremations in actual crematoriums?
Were they cremations in coke fired crematoriums?
Incinerators?
Open pyres?
What?
Please quote the relevant text.

Thanks.

So called "holocaust eyewitnesses" making absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims is not the exception, but the rule.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

visit the CODOH Revisionist Forum
https://forum.codoh.com

Grover Furr
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Grover Furr »

Lily wrote:I certainly trust Revisionists.
That is beside the point, it was a reply to Aaron Richard.
Were they cremations in actual crematoriums?
https://archive.org/details/cremationdead00eassgoog

William Eassie, Cremation of the Dead (London:1875),106-108
"I have spent many years researching this and similar questions and I have yet to find one crime that Stalin committed."

-Grover Furr

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been-there
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by been-there »

blake121666 wrote:
been-there wrote: But Blake, you DO talk as if you are an expert. That is the impression you give. Either that, or you talk with an assurety that implies you think you know more than the average person. Yet you didn't even know that HCN gas is invisible and refused to acknowledge expert articles as evidence provided to you of this.

Now you claim 30 minutes or below for an average cremation time!? :o
What does the color of HCN gas have to do with this? There would be dampness in the alleged HGC scenario or in a straightforward Zyklon fumigation of the rooms and therefore I suspected there'd be a light-bluish hue from condensation as claimed in whatever you are referring to here. I've never fumigated with Zyklon though and have never claimed that I have. Hence I am no expert and am not claiming to be one. Why you bring this up in this thread where I mention Mattogno's treatment of cremations is strange. I straightforwardly TOLD YOU I don't know how a Zyklon fumigation visually appears. You make it sound as if I said otherwise. I looked at what you wrote and AGREED with it. Sheesh!

My initial post was referring to what Mattogno claims. And, again, I claimed that I am not an expert. I'm just passing on information as read. It turns out to be a very very complicated subject though. I was merely pointing that out: the initial post was somewhat impertinent - more is involved than implied in it.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html
Mattogno wrote:6.6. Conclusions

1. The shortest time required for a cremation resulting from experimental data referred to in this chapter is that of the Ignis-Hüttenbau oven in Terezín: 35-36 min. However, it is necessary to keep in mind to what this duration refers to and what made it possible. [... etc]
I felt the tone in the OP seemed to imply that it is Revisionists that needed to firm up their understanding of the cremation claims. That might very well be the case; but it is Revisionists who have done the serious studies of this subject, NOT the Holocaustians. I'm sure Mattogno spent a very considerable amount of time, effort, and thought on these matters. Well beyond that I've seen from Holocaustians.
The invisibility of HCN I think is relevant to this discussion because because it demonstrates an unwillingness to correct error. You are still implying it is a gas that has a colour. It hasn't. You are wrong about that.

And now again here in this topic you are avoiding admitting error.
You wrote suggesting an AVERAGE time of 30 minutes or below.
Blake wrote:An average cremation time of very large numbers of corpses (whose weights average to an average weight for an adult of the period) could possibly run into the 1/2 hour or below range.
When challenged you now provide a quote from Mattogno that refers to a SHORTEST time of "35-36 minutes".

I'm just interested in arriving at the most correct understanding.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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