How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

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Aaron Richards
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How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Aaron Richards »

Revisionists, in their quest to disprove the cremation time of the Birkenau crematoria, often cite how long it takes for an adult corpse to be cremated in a modern civilian crematory. Do we have any data from modern civilian crematories how long infants and children <5 years take to cremate? Since a good chunk of those who did not pass the Selektion were infants and children, perhaps equipped with this data, revisionists could make a better case against the cremation time argument made by traditionalists. Until then...
Why is debunking decade-long research by revisionist scholars such an entertaining task for an absolute amateur? Honestly, I have no idea: http://siraaronrichards.imgur.com

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Pa Gromheizer
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Pa Gromheizer »

Aaron Richards wrote:Revisionists, in their quest to disprove the cremation time of the Birkenau crematoria, often cite how long it takes for an adult corpse to be cremated in a modern civilian crematory. Do we have any data from modern civilian crematories how long infants and children <5 years take to cremate? Since a good chunk of those who did not pass the Selektion were infants and children, perhaps equipped with this data, revisionists could make a better case against the cremation time argument made by traditionalists. Until then...
Call a local funeral home that has a crematory and ask them. Let us know. The time would differ if a coffin or cardboard box were used. Better yet, go visit a crematory and question the operator.

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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by blake121666 »

Aaron Richards wrote:Revisionists, in their quest to disprove the cremation time of the Birkenau crematoria, often cite how long it takes for an adult corpse to be cremated in a modern civilian crematory. Do we have any data from modern civilian crematories how long infants and children <5 years take to cremate? Since a good chunk of those who did not pass the Selektion were infants and children, perhaps equipped with this data, revisionists could make a better case against the cremation time argument made by traditionalists. Until then...
Your question about "modern civilian crematories" is rather naive. The factors influencing cremation times as alleged at Birkenau are dominated by how "warmed up" the ovens are and the specific procedures used in cremating very large numbers of corpses.

Any single cremation, big or small, will be so different than the scenario you are interested in as to be of no use at all in relation to the Birkenau scenario. In short, a single cremation, big or small, would take about 1 to 4 hours.

An average cremation time of very large numbers of corpses (whose weights average to an average weight for an adult of the period) could possibly run into the 1/2 hour or below range. More fat corresponds to quicker cremation times. So, contrary to a recent post on another thread, women do, in fact, cremate more quickly than men on average. An infant in this scenario would cremate very quickly indeed. This is not an interesting revelation of yours.

Your argument naively suggests that it is Revisionists that need to be "equipped with this data" ... etc. On the contrary, Mattogno has been handling this thorny problem with a fair amount of depth for decades. It is the Holocaustian side that doesn't address these issues responsibly. Holocaustians are the superstitious arm-wavers in this area that tend to not even go to the trouble of even attempting to address the technical aspects (not with any seriousness).

While I'm not claiming Mattogno to be flawless on these matters (and have quite serious problems with some of his claims), the Holocaustians are so daft on these matters as to not even UNDERSTAND anything at all about these issues. Unfortunately, this is evident in your post. Read Mattogno for the Revisionist side; and I guess Van Pelt for the Holocaustian side. I am certainly no expert on these matters; but it is clear to me the fundamental problems between these 2 approaches. It has a distasteful "science vs religion" flavor all over it.

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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by been-there »

blake121666 wrote:
Aaron Richards wrote:Revisionists, in their quest to disprove the cremation time of the Birkenau crematoria, often cite how long it takes for an adult corpse to be cremated in a modern civilian crematory. Do we have any data from modern civilian crematories how long infants and children <5 years take to cremate? Since a good chunk of those who did not pass the Selektion were infants and children, perhaps equipped with this data, revisionists could make a better case against the cremation time argument made by traditionalists. Until then...
Your question about "modern civilian crematories" is rather naive. The factors influencing cremation times as alleged at Birkenau are dominated by how "warmed up" the ovens are and the specific procedures used in cremating very large numbers of corpses.

Any single cremation, big or small, will be so different than the scenario you are interested in as to be of no use at all in relation to the Birkenau scenario. In short, a single cremation, big or small, would take about 1 to 4 hours.

An average cremation time of very large numbers of corpses (whose weights average to an average weight for an adult of the period) could possibly run into the 1/2 hour or below range. More fat corresponds to quicker cremation times. So, contrary to a recent post on another thread, women do, in fact, cremate more quickly than men on average. An infant in this scenario would cremate very quickly indeed. This is not an interesting revelation of yours.

Your argument naively suggests that it is Revisionists that need to be "equipped with this data" ... etc. On the contrary, Mattogno has been handling this thorny problem with a fair amount of depth for decades. It is the Holocaustian side that doesn't address these issues responsibly. Holocaustians are the superstitious arm-wavers in this area that tend to not even go to the trouble of even attempting to address the technical aspects (not with any seriousness).

While I'm not claiming Mattogno to be flawless on these matters (and have quite serious problems with some of his claims), the Holocaustians are so daft on these matters as to not even UNDERSTAND anything at all about these issues. Unfortunately, this is evident in your post. Read Mattogno for the Revisionist side; and I guess Van Pelt for the Holocaustian side. I am certainly no expert on these matters; but it is clear to me the fundamental problems between these 2 approaches. It has a distasteful "science vs religion" flavor all over it.
But Blake, you DO talk as if you are an expert. That is the impression you give. Either that, or you talk with an assurety that implies you think you know more than the average person. Yet you didn't even know that HCN gas is invisible and refused to acknowledge expert articles as evidence provided to you of this.

Now you claim 30 minutes or below for an average cremation time!? :o
Blake wrote:An average cremation time of very large numbers of corpses (whose weights average to an average weight for an adult of the period) could possibly run into the 1/2 hour or below range. More fat corresponds to quicker cremation times. So, contrary to a recent post on another thread, women do, in fact, cremate more quickly than men on average.
Please do provide some evidence for these claims.

I am no expert, but I understood that the Canadian crematorium expert Ivan Lagace has already dealt with these issues:
Even modern crematories require an average of two hours (the cremation cycle) to "process" a human body, he said. Non-stop cremation, as allegedly happened at Birkenau, is simply impossible, said Lagacé, who had cremated more than a thousand bodies in his career.
Birkenau's crematories were almost identical in structure and design to the crematory he manages in Calgary, said Lagacé. Claims by Raul Hilberg and other Holocaust historians that some four thousand bodies were "processed" daily in Birkenau's four crematory facilities are "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality," Lagacé emphasized. Based on his experience, he said, the Birkenau crematories would have been able to cremate no more than 184 bodies daily..
...the Bow Valley Crematorium was the hottest, and therefore, the fastest crematory in operation in North America, with the capacity to cremate one adult human body in a minimum time of an hour and a half under optimum circumstances. Children took much less time to cremate simply because of their smaller size. Bodies with a moderate amount of fat were easier to cremate than skinny people. Fat was a good fuel which ignited instantly upon exposure to the flame. A tremendous surge of heat would result, actually aiding in the cremation process. A person with no fat on their body was very "stubborn" fuel to burn because it consisted mainly of wet tissues. The torso was the most difficult part of the human body to cremate because of its bulk and thickness.

The time to cremate a human being (the cremation cycle) took an average of two hours. After the first cremation of the day was completed, the operator must let the retort cool-down for a minimum of one hour before beginning the second case. After the second cremation, a cool-down period of at least two hours was required.
Even with cool-down times, Lagacé testified that cremations could not be done "24 hours a day, round the clock, day after day...the refractory will not tolerate it."

Lagacé emphasized the real dangers involved if the cool-down periods were not followed. If an operator attempted to introduce a body into the retort when temperatures were still excessive, a "flash ignition" could occur whereby the body would ignite before it was fully introduced into the retort. In such a case, the operator would be engulfed in flames from the burning body and would be unable to close the door to the retort. To put it simply, he said, "you can basically walk away and watch your building burn down."

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/26lagace.html
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Grover Furr »

been-there wrote:But Blake, you DO talk as if you are an expert. That is the impression you give. Either that, or you talk with an assurety that implies you think you know more than the average person. Yet you didn't even know that HCN gas is invisible and refused to acknowledge expert articles as evidence provided to you of this.

Now you claim 30 minutes or below for an average cremation time!? :o
Blake wrote:An average cremation time of very large numbers of corpses (whose weights average to an average weight for an adult of the period) could possibly run into the 1/2 hour or below range. More fat corresponds to quicker cremation times. So, contrary to a recent post on another thread, women do, in fact, cremate more quickly than men on average.
Please do provide some evidence for these claims.

I am no expert, but I understood that the Canadian crematorium expert Ivan Lagace has already dealt with these issues:
Even modern crematories require an average of two hours (the cremation cycle) to "process" a human body, he said. Non-stop cremation, as allegedly happened at Birkenau, is simply impossible, said Lagacé, who had cremated more than a thousand bodies in his career.
Birkenau's crematories were almost identical in structure and design to the crematory he manages in Calgary, said Lagacé. Claims by Raul Hilberg and other Holocaust historians that some four thousand bodies were "processed" daily in Birkenau's four crematory facilities are "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality," Lagacé emphasized. Based on his experience, he said, the Birkenau crematories would have been able to cremate no more than 184 bodies daily..
...the Bow Valley Crematorium was the hottest, and therefore, the fastest crematory in operation in North America, with the capacity to cremate one adult human body in a minimum time of an hour and a half under optimum circumstances. Children took much less time to cremate simply because of their smaller size. Bodies with a moderate amount of fat were easier to cremate than skinny people. Fat was a good fuel which ignited instantly upon exposure to the flame. A tremendous surge of heat would result, actually aiding in the cremation process. A person with no fat on their body was very "stubborn" fuel to burn because it consisted mainly of wet tissues. The torso was the most difficult part of the human body to cremate because of its bulk and thickness.

The time to cremate a human being (the cremation cycle) took an average of two hours. After the first cremation of the day was completed, the operator must let the retort cool-down for a minimum of one hour before beginning the second case. After the second cremation, a cool-down period of at least two hours was required.
Even with cool-down times, Lagacé testified that cremations could not be done "24 hours a day, round the clock, day after day...the refractory will not tolerate it."

Lagacé emphasized the real dangers involved if the cool-down periods were not followed. If an operator attempted to introduce a body into the retort when temperatures were still excessive, a "flash ignition" could occur whereby the body would ignite before it was fully introduced into the retort. In such a case, the operator would be engulfed in flames from the burning body and would be unable to close the door to the retort. To put it simply, he said, "you can basically walk away and watch your building burn down."

http://www.ihr.org/books/kulaszka/26lagace.html
That might be pushing it a bit, don't you agree? I am no cremation expert but a website I read a long time ago says that cremation ovens should be able to cremate a body in less then a hour.
"Q. At what temperature is the cremation done and is this a standard or do some facilities vary? How long does the actual cremation process take and does this also vary with temperature?

"A. The temperature at which cremations are done vary based upon the retort manufacturer, but most machines operate between 1,500 to 1,900 degrees F. The actual cremation time again varies depending upon the type of machine. Low capacity retorts take approximately 3 hours to complete a cremation while high capacity machines take less than one hour. In addition to the type of retort, the size of the individual and the number of cremations conducted during the day also affect the time. For example, in the retort we operate, the first cremation of the day takes about two hours and the second takes about an hour. That is because the retort already has a high internal temperature at the beginning of the second cremation.
https://web.archive.org/web/19961101122 ... emperature

And the Topf instructions for their double muffle furnaces says that it took 40 minutes to cremate a body. Not really sure if this helps at all. It still doesn't spell out what eyewitness say though.
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by been-there »

Grover Furr wrote:
Non-stop cremation, as allegedly happened at Birkenau, is simply impossible, said Lagacé, who had cremated more than a thousand bodies in his career.
Birkenau's crematories were almost identical in structure and design to the crematory he manages in Calgary, said Lagacé. Claims by Raul Hilberg and other Holocaust historians that some four thousand bodies were "processed" daily in Birkenau's four crematory facilities are "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality," Lagacé emphasized. Based on his experience, he said, the Birkenau crematories would have been able to cremate no more than 184 bodies daily..
That might be pushing it a bit, don't you agree? I am no cremation expert but a website I read a long time ago says that cremation ovens should be able to cremate a body in less then a hour.

https://web.archive.org/web/19961101122 ... emperature

And the Topf instructions for their double muffle furnaces says that it took 40 minutes to cremate a body. Not really sure if this helps at all. It still doesn't spell out what eyewitness say though.
That site you provided claims normal average times of two hours and no less than one hour.
I couldn't see anywhere there stating an average time of 40 minutes(?)

And the crucial factor that I took from Ivan Lagace's expert witness testimony at the Zündel trial was that periodically there HAS TO BE A COOLING PERIOD. Otherwise there will be damage. And when one of connected retorts is damaged they ALL become inoperable while repair is underway. So... The Birkenau 'story' is refuted right there.
Rudolf Höß wrote:"Depending on the size of the bodies, up to three bodies could be put in through one oven door at the same time. The time required for cremation also depended on the number of bodies in each retort, but on average it took twenty minutes."
All this discussion here over such details doesn't detract from the main issue. The bottom line, as you say, is that whether an average cremation time is two hours, one hour (or if we allow for children and say forty minutes), THE HOLOCAUST 'EYEWITNESS' testimonies and the numbers alleged in the holocaust 'histories' are simply not practically possible.
As Lagace stated they are "preposterous" and "beyond the realm of reality".
Which demonstrates that this 'history' is built upon unreliable witness testimony, lies and exaggerations.
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Lily »

https://www.iccfa.com/cremation/support ... ation-take

Using modern cremation technology the International Cemetery, Cremation and Funeral Association (ICCFA) says:
Q: How long does it take to cremate a body?

A: On the surface, this is a simple question, but answering it requires an understanding of the factors that influence cremation time.

First, let's assume that by "cremation time," we mean the time it takes to physically reduce the body and casket or container. In this assumption we are not including the pre-heating of the afterburner chamber, which can add anywhere from 20 minutes to 60 minutes to the total processing time, depending on the state environmental requirements.

The factors that affect cremation time are the size of the body (weight), the percentage of body fat to lean tissue or muscle, the type of container or casket, the performance standards of the cremation equipment, and whether it is the first cremation of the day, the second, the third and so on. Some operators believe that the medical history of the deceased and type of treatment can also affect the time it takes to cremate.

As a result, actual cremation times vary from 60 minutes to more than 5 hours. In the cremation profession, it is widely stated that it takes about 2 hours to cremate an average body of 150 pounds in a cardboard cremation container.
So much for the impossible 'holocaust' lying "eyewitnesses" who said that cremations were done in mere minutes.
i.e.:
Auschwitz ‘eyewitness’ Dov Paisikovic stated the impossible by claiming that the cremation of one body took about four minutes!
- Léon Poliakov, Auschwitz, René Julliard, Paris 1964, p. 159 ff.

So called "holocaust eyewitnesses" making absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims is not the exception, but the rule.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

visit the CODOH Revisionist Forum
https://forum.codoh.com

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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Aaron Richards »

I love how everyone has derailed this thread from "how long does it take for an infant to be creamted"

to the same old chewed out "how long does a body take"

More proof there's barely any moderators on RODOH :D
Why is debunking decade-long research by revisionist scholars such an entertaining task for an absolute amateur? Honestly, I have no idea: http://siraaronrichards.imgur.com

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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by been-there »

I provided expert evidence on children's cremation times and also commented on it. Maybe you nissed that. I even enlarged that specific part, because it answered your question.
But where are you going with this? It will obviously be less time.
Assuming an infant's body is a third the size of an adult, we perhaps can assume cremation will require a third of the time. Then?
Do you perhaps have any idea of the numbers of infants that were in the numbers of people allegedly gassed then cremated?
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Re: How long does it take to cremate an infant corpse?

Post by Nessie »

No denier/revisionist has mentioned that they take into account the bodies being cremated at Birkenau were just going to be dumped en-mass and the actual condition of the cremains was not important. Whereas a funeral home takes great care to ensure the ash is consistent and to a specific grade. They also have to ensure individual ashes do not get mixed up or there is cross contamination between different people's ashes.

At least in this debate account has been taken that the bodies at Birkenau were naked with no coffin, whereas cremations usually take place with the clothed body in a coffin, so there is more to burn.

We also know that the crematoriums at Birkenau were being maxed out as so many did break down, so they were supplemented with outdoor cremations. We do not know how many were cremated inside or out. So all denier/revisionist figures are just guesses.

Fact is that cremation times when the body is naked and there is no need to take any care with the cremains will be lower than what denier/revisionists try and make out they will be. They have an agenda and they do not worry much about making sure their beliefs are evidenced. Then there are certain individuals of low intelligence who chip into the debate as if they know more than they actually do.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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