AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
Post Reply
User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 27677
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by Nessie » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:30 pm

AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Yankel Wiernik in his memoires written after his escape in August 1943 and published in 1945 explains;

http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm

"But there were new events to upset our emotional balance. This was the period when the Germans talked a lot about Katyn, which they used for anti-Soviet propaganda purposes. One day, by accident, we got hold of a newspaper from which we learned about that mass killing. It was probably these reports that made Himmler decide to visit Treblinka personally and to give orders that henceforth all the corpses of inmates should be cremated (March 1943). There were plenty of corpses to cremate-there was no one who could have been blamed for the Treblinka killings except the Germans who, for the time being, were the masters of the land which they had wrested from us [Poles] by brute force. They did not want any evidence of the mass murders left.

At any rate, the cremations were promptly begun. The corpses of men, women, children and old people were exhumed from the mass graves. Whenever such a grave was opened, a terrible stench rose from them, because the bodies were already in an advanced stage of decomposition......

He put a machine for exhuming the corpses into operation, an excavator which could dig up 3,000 corpses at one time. A fire grate made of railroad tracks was placed on concrete foundations 100 to 150 meters in length. The workers piled the corpses on the grate and set them on fire......

July was drawing to a close and the weather was blistering hot. The hardest work was at the mass graves, and the men who exhumed the corpses for cremation were barely able to stand on their feet because of the sickening odors. By now about 75 per cent of the corpses had been cremated; all that remained to be done was to grade down the soil so that not a trace would be found of the crimes, which had been committed on that spot. Ashes don't talk.

It was our job to fill in the empty ditches with the ashes of the cremated victims, mixed with soil in order to obliterate all traces of the mass graves. The parcel of ground thus gained had to be utilized one way or another. It was fenced in with barbed wire, taking in an additional plot from the other camp to form an area for planting. An experiment was conducted with planting some vegetation in this area; the soil proved to be fertile. The gardeners among us planted lupine, which grew very well. And so the area of the mass graves, after 75 per cent of the corpses buried there had been exhumed and cremated, was leveled, seeded and fenced in with barbed wire. Pine trees were also planted there
."

That is a contemporary account written before there was much widespread knowledge of TII. The first main archaeological study in 1945 lead by Judge Lukaszkiewicz.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html

On November the 11th 1945 he reported

"The largest of the craters produced by explosions (numerous fragments attest to the fact that these explosions were set off by bombs), which is at maximum 6 meters deep and has a diameter of about 25 meters – its walls give recognizable evidence of the presence of a large quantity of ashes as well as human remains – was further excavated in order to discover the depth of the pit in this part of the camp. Numerous human remains were found by these excavations, partially still in a state of decomposition. The soil consists of ashes interspersed with sand, is of a dark gray color and granulous in form. During the excavations, the soil gave off an intense odor of burning and decay. At a depth of 7.5 meters the bottom was reached, which consisted of layers of unmixed sand. At this point the digging was stopped here."

On the 29th of December 1945 he reported

"In the northwestern section of the area, the surface is covered for about 2 hectares by a mixture of ashes and sand. In this mixture, one finds countless human bones, often still covered with tissue remains, which are in a condition of decomposition. During the inspection, which I made with the assistance of an expert in forensic medicine, it was determined that the ashes are without any doubt of human origin (remains of cremated human bones). The examination of human skulls could discover no trace of« wounding. At a distance of some 100 m, there is now an unpleasant odor of burning and decay."

His summary of "During the work on the terrain, I found no mass graves, which, in connection with the statements by the witnesses Romanowski and Wiernik, leads to the conclusion that nearly all of the bodies of the victims were burned, all the more so since the camp was liquidated early and the murderers had much time. The ground of the camp was ploughed and sown." shows he understands that his findings to corroborate Wiernik.

So by the end of 1945, before the narrative of the Holocaust had become widely publicised, known and understood, that the mass graves had been dug back up and the bodies cremated had been confirmed by a witness and archaeological study.

It does not matter that witnesses estimated the actual size and location of the original mass graves incorrectly. It does not matter that the later archaeological studies have not identified the exact dimensions and location of the original mass graves. What is important is the corroboration of witness and science match and a large number of bodies were cremated and mixed back in with the earth.

Mattogno then gets it right here in his conclusion "All the evidence examined by him (coins, documents, rags, containers, remnants of various objects) show merely that there was a camp at that place, and the human remains as well as the ashes prove only that bodies were buried or cremated in the camp."

What we need to do is establish cause of death and numbers dead and that cannot be found by round and round debate about the size etc of the mass graves and they cannot be seen now.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

tomt
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by tomt » Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:52 pm

So you really believe that they had an excavator that could dig up 3000 corpses at one time? Do you also believe they had a concrete cement foundations the size of a football field that they had to also break up and dispose of?

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 27677
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by Nessie » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:29 pm

tomt wrote:So you really believe that they had an excavator that could dig up 3000 corpses at one time?
I do not think he meant in one load. He meant during a period of time whilst working.
tomt wrote: Do you also believe they had a concrete cement foundations the size of a football field that they had to also break up and dispose of?
I have not heard about that. Can you give more details?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

tomt
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by tomt » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:41 pm

It's all in your article that mention cement foundations 150 meters in length. It doesn't sound like he meant anything but 3000 at one time because You are talking about at least 20,000 bodies each and every day dug up and burnt. Does at one time mean per hour?

Lily
Posts: 741
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:43 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by Lily » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:01 pm

Nessie hilariously said:
Staffs Uni have confirmed large parts of what the 1946 Polish investigation have found. With gpr there are large areas of disturbed ground at TII with evidence of cremains lying around on the surface found during a walkover. So there is corroboration of what Lukaszkiewicz found. There has also been more than one survey at the other sites, which also corroborate each other.
Please show us your claimed GPR images. No dodging.
Please show us the "cremains lying around on the surface". No dodging.
Please show us "more than one survey at the other sites which also corroborate each other". No dodging.
Please show us excavated mass graves holding 900,000 Jews at Treblinka that Jews claim exist & excavated mass graves holding 250,000 Jews at Sobibor that Jews claim exist. No dodging.

As for liar Wiernik who Nessie irrationally cites, read the facts:
The story of the 'holocaust' as alleged has no limits, nor has any sense of honesty. Here you will see statements by an acclaimed "eyewitness" which are scientifically impossible, irrational, and frankly...bizarre..

I saw this referenced as evidence about Treblinka. http://www.zchor.org/treblink/wiernik.htm
==============================================
A YEAR IN TREBLINKA
By Yankel Wiernik
An Inmate Who Escaped Tells the Day-To-Day Facts of One Year of His Torturous Experiences
Published by
AMERICAN REPRESENTATION of the General Jewish Workers' Union of Poland 175 East Broadway New York 2, N.Y. 1945
===============================================

"All looked yellow from the gas..." :lol:

"People were often kept in the gas chambers overnight ...." :lol:

"It often happened that an arm or a leg fell off when we tied straps around them in order to drag the bodies away" :lol:

"as many as 30,000 people were gassed in one day...." :lol:

"the bodies of women were used for kindling the fires" :lol:

"The corpses were soaked in gasoline. This entailed considerable expense and the results were inadequate; the male corpses simply would not burn"
"10,000 to 12,000 corpses were cremated at one time. The result was one huge inferno, which from the distance looked like a volcano breaking through the earth's crust to belch forth fire and lava" :lol:

"The inmates were forced to sing Jewish songs ..." :lol:

Wiernik claimed he saw a naked Jewish girl leap over a three-meter (9 ft.) high barbed wire fence, wrench the rifle out of the hands of a pursuing guard, shoot two other guards before she was overpowered. :lol:

He stated that 900,000 Jews were murdered, buried, exhumed, then cremated at Treblinka & all traces disappeared. :lol:

Wiernik claimed that up to 1200 people could fit into an area 7 X 7 m, in other words more than 20 people per sq. meter!!

According to Wiernik the 7 X 7 m (49 sq.m.) gas chamber that held 1200 people was an improvement over a previous gas chamber that was 25 sq. meters and could hold 500 people. :lol:

He claimed that bodies burned on their own once lit!! :lol:

(additional source: 'Death Camp Treblinka', A. Donat)

On gas chambers:

"When I arrived at the camp, three gas chambers were already in operation; another ten were added while I was there. A gas chamber measured 5 x 5 meters and was about 1.90 meters high. The outlet on the roof had a hermetic cap. The chamber was equipped with a gas pipe inlet and a baked tile floor slanting towards the platform. The brick building which housed the gas chambers was separated from Camp No. 1 by a wooden wall. This wooden wall and the brick wall of the building together formed a corridor which was 80 centimeters taller than the building. The chambers were connected with the corridor by a hermetically fitted iron door leading into each of the chambers. On the side of Camp No. 2 the chambers were connected by a platform four meters wide, which- ran alongside all three chambers. The platform was about 80 centimeters above ground level. There was also a hermetically fitted wooden door on this side.
Each chamber had a door facing Camp No. 2 (1.80 by 2.50 meters), which could be opened only from the outside by lifting it with iron supports and was closed by iron hooks set into the sash frames, and by wooden bolts. The victims were led into the chambers through the doors leading from the corridor, while the remains of the gassed victims were dragged out through the doors facing Camp No. 2. The power plant operated alongside these chambers, supplying Camps 1 and 2 with electric current. A motor taken from a dismantled Soviet tank stood in the power plant. This motor was used to pump the gas, which was let into the chambers by connecting the motor with the inflow pipes. The speed with which death overcame the helpless victims depended on the quantity of combustion gas admitted into the chamber at one time."
"Between 450 and 500 persons were crowded into a chamber measuring 25 square meters. Parents carried their children in their arms in the vain hope that this would save their children from death. On the way to their doom, they were pushed and beaten with rifle butts and with Ivan's gas pipe. Dogs were set upon them, barking, biting and tearing at them. To escape the blows and the dogs, the crowd rushed to its death, pushing into the chamber, the stronger ones shoving the weaker ones ahead of them. The bedlam lasted only a short while, for soon the doors were slammed shut. The chamber was filled, the motor turned on and connected with the inflow pipes and, within 25 minutes at the most, all lay stretched out dead or, to be more accurate, were standing up dead. Since there was not an inch of free space, they just leaned against each other."
"It turned out that we were building ten additional gas chambers, more spacious than the old ones, 7 by 7 meters or about 50 square meters. As many as 1,000 to 1,200 persons could be crowded into one gas chamber."
So called "holocaust eyewitnesses" making absurd, impossible, and contradictory claims is not the exception, but the rule.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.

visit the CODOH Revisionist Forum
https://forum.codoh.com

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 27677
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by Nessie » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:11 pm

tomt wrote:It's all in your article that mention cement foundations 150 meters in length.
I have search both links for the word cement and cannot find what you are referring to. Please show exactly where and quote, thanks.
tomt wrote: It doesn't sound like he meant anything but 3000 at one time because You are talking about at least 20,000 bodies each and every day dug up and burnt. Does at one time mean per hour?
I do not know if he meant per hour, how could I? He may have meant at a time as in per pyre.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 27677
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by Nessie » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:27 pm

Lily wrote:Nessie hilariously said:
Staffs Uni have confirmed large parts of what the 1946 Polish investigation have found. With gpr there are large areas of disturbed ground at TII with evidence of cremains lying around on the surface found during a walkover. So there is corroboration of what Lukaszkiewicz found. There has also been more than one survey at the other sites, which also corroborate each other.
Please show us your claimed GPR images. No dodging.
They have not been published such that I can link you to them. Two images have been shown at this exhibit in London.

http://www.wienerlibrary.co.uk/Finding_Treblinka
Lily wrote:Please show us the "cremains lying around on the surface". No dodging.
It is in the Channel 5 documentary "Treblinka, Inside Hitler's Secret Death Camp. The scene is when the archaeologists are doing a walk over survey and they stop and pick up cremains from the surface of the ground. I cannot find a link to the video that will work to show you the scene.
Lily wrote:Please show us "more than one survey at the other sites which also corroborate each other". No dodging.
I was referring to the 1945 Polish study and the Staffs Uni study. Both evidence underground disturbances over a large area identified by witnesses as where the death camp was and human cremains at the site.
Lily wrote: Please show us excavated mass graves holding 900,000 Jews at Treblinka that Jews claim exist & excavated mass graves holding 250,000 Jews at Sobibor that Jews claim exist. No dodging.
Since they have been dug up and the bodies cremated and mixed back into the ground, there are no excavated mass graves with bodies to count. You know that. Your question has been answered repeatedly, please try and remember answers so the debate can move on.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

tomt
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by tomt » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:38 pm

It's in the third paragraph from the written text you posted. 100 to 150 meter long concrete foundations.

tomt
Posts: 81
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by tomt » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:43 pm

Well you have to assume 3000 at one time dug. Unless you can offer a reasonable solution. If that's the case I would have to have serious doubts about his testimony

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 27677
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: AR camp mass graves - what happened to them?

Post by Nessie » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:49 pm

tomt wrote:It's in the third paragraph from the written text you posted. 100 to 150 meter long concrete foundations.
Sorry, I was looking for cement. With so little detail about how much was used, how thick it was, I cannot answer that question. They could have been damaged during the cremations and then buried with the sand brought in from the quarry.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 13 guests