Size of Zyklon can

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blake121666
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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:36 am

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:Thank you to the BlackRabbit for the above post with that great reference material from Testa. I had never seen that before but the pictures have appeared in several other publications on the subject and are well known to me--I have used some of them myself. There are no surprises there, either in the text or pictures.

Unfortunately, since the material is in German, Blake and others can never read it. The answers to Blake's first "edit" is spelled out. To Blake's second edit, I suggest Blake look at basic HVAC designs. With good ductwork, the gas will get to the ends of even the longest chamber with maximum strength cyanide.

FPBerg
Hey dumbo, we are talking about MIXING here. Not that you can "get to the ends of even the longest chamber with maximum strength cyanide". THAT is just repeating what I wrote above. You'd be tossing bigger concentrations around but not necessarily mixing it more quickly.

Would a more powerful rifle charge spread shot as good as a less powerful one? No, it would hurl the shot all as one as far as it could go. Everything between where the shot started and landed would get hardly any. We want the HCN to mix throughout the WHOLE space. Berg needs to show that that can be done in a few minutes.

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:03 am

I don't see where the answers to my first "edit" are spelled out. What I can make of what is said at that graph is something along the lines of:
above graphs wrote:From the following graphs representing 2 typical normal cases. Figure "a" shows the merits of the kreislauf system: equal gas distribution at all points of the chamber. The initial concentrations are particularly high; they could not circulate due to adsorption losses ....

Figure "b" shows the gas distributed as unequally bulky when no mechanical mixing occurs; in places, the concentration so poor that no killing of vermin would be expected.
So RTG is correct about what he said awhile ago. They mention losses here; so the tests were done with something to give sorption losses.

But w.r.t. the exact parameters of the tests: I don't see that. How about telling me where that is, Fritz? It's best that we all get as good a handle on those graphs as possible.

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:24 am

So how old are you really, dumbo? How far down do I have to go just to talk to you? Did you pass Kindergarden?

The 10-cubic-meter gas chambers were "filled" with objects that inevitably "absorbed" some of the cyanide. Too hard to undewrstand?

If a supply air duct brings a cyanide-air mixture to a far corner of a long gas chamber, there is no absorption of cyanide before the gas is introduced into the chamber at that point. Can you possibly understand that, dumbo? So how old are you?

FPBerg

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:26 am

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:So how old are you really, dumbo? How far down do I have to go just to talk to you? Did you pass Kindergarden?

The 10-cubic-meter gas chambers were "filled" with objects that inevitably "absorbed" some of the cyanide. Too hard to undewrstand?

If a supply air duct brings a cyanide-air mixture to a far corner of a long gas chamber, there is no absorption of cyanide before the gas is introduced into the chamber at that point. Can you possibly understand that, dumbo? So how old are you?

FPBerg
What are the graphs of (where were the probes)? Is it the 4 corners and center (or approximately thereabouts)?

The room was 10 m^3 apparently. What size can of Zyklon was used?

What size blower?

I only brought up the sorption because RTG had made a big deal about that - about a month ago. I figured they might or might not had actually done the tests with something in the chamber. If they had wanted their graphs to look much better, they wouldn't have done that. But apparently they did and therefore there WAS sorption - contrary to my and RTG's disagreement on that. This has nothing to do with OUR dispersion disagreement though.

I called you dumbo because you called me "brain dead".

I hope you realize that we are discussing the miscibility of HCN with your fan arrangement - not that you could blow concentrations around throughout the room. I'm glad you didn't take issue with my shot example - because I only used that example to be clear. The shot example is of course TOTALLY different than the highly mixable HCN with air. The question is how mixable?

If you blew a high concentration very quickly down the room, it would "pile up" at the far corner. This is what your graph shows. The ends of the room have pile-ups that pile-up and bounce around and take awhile to settle into the center. This takes about an hour in your graph BUT one can see that the center "hits" an appropriate concentration after about 1/2 hour. The question is if a larger fan would achieve a quicker miscibility. THAT is the issue. Or would one just get higher pile-ups?

You might or might not be correct with what you are saying. I'd like to see some sort of proof in the form of empirical data. As it is, I'm going by what that graph says. It'd still take about 1/2 an hour to reach killing concentrations throughout the room.

EDIT: BTW, w.r.t. the sorption deal: the graph settles into an average of about 5 g/m^3 in a 10 m^3 room. With no sorption that would mean a 50g dose was used. The sorption probably took about half and so it was probably a dose of a 100g can.

EDIT 2: It is as if I am talking to the kindergartner here. Berg can't even read his own graphs.

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:57 pm

On page 10 of the Testafibel from the BlackRabbit, we are told that the motor for the 10-cubic-meter Degesch gas chamber was rated at 0.5 PS but only 0.4 PS was used.

That Testafibel is enormously valuable, and beautifully written, and I will be trying to get an original copy somewhere. Among other things, it makes no mention anywhere of any "danger of explosion" or "explosion-proof" switches or motors or motor controls. Seeing that material from BRoI makes this otherwise moronic discussion with Blake and RtG well worth the trouble. There is much more in the related literature that I am only now beginning to appreciate. It also makes me even more outraged at the stupid diversion caused by Faurisson and Leuchter from the real issues and arguments.

FPBerg

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Scott » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:26 pm

My thanks also to BRoI for that Testa-Primer. What a great find !

Btw, PS = Pferdestärke, literally horsepower, which is slightly less than an American horsepower.

1 PS = 735 Watts
1 HP = 746 Watts

So, per a quick reading of the text, the motor is rated at 0.5 PS = 373 Watts and running is 0.4 PS = 294 Watts.

The blower "flow rate" is 12 cubic meters per minute.

The "speed" is 1420 rpm.

It is a three-phase 220/380 Volt motor.

And the Zyklon can is the 200 gram (HCN content) small one.

:)
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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:23 am

The Testafibel is especially valuable for the great stress it puts on "circulation" or Kreislauf--even in subheadings. Someone might want to count the number of times the word Kreislauf or compound words with Kreislauf actually appear in the text. It all goes to show what the Germans were thinking.

In a recent email I asked about fifty revisionists whether it was dawning on them that their belief in the danger of explosion from cyanide had no merit. I got no response at all. For all I know, Faurisson's misguided belief is as strong as ever. My French is terrible but I did read in Faurisson's blog of yesterday a reference to NI-9912 which Blake had explained in some detail. Faurisson had clearly MISREAD it. Could Blake, or anyone, with a good reading knowledge of French read that blog and tell us what Faurisson is still claiming, please?

FPBerg

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:51 pm

Here is some of the most recent text from Faurisson's blog:
Thursday, July 7, 2016
Un document scientifique de plus qui, à lui seul, met à mal le mythe des chambres à gaz hitlériennes

Depuis le début des années 1960, d’abord dans mes recherches, puis dans mes articles, études ou livres j’ai abondamment traité des raisons scientifiques pour lesquelles les prétendues chambres à gaz hitlériennes n’ont pas existé ni même pu exister. Je ne rappellerai pas ces raisons. Pour une fois, je me contenterai de ne présenter ici qu’un document et un seul à l’appui de la conclusion de mes recherches. Il s’agit d’une fiche toxicologique de l’Institut National de Recherche et de Sécurité (INRS) pour la prévention des accidents du travail et des maladies professionnelles (30, rue Olivier-Noyer, 75680, Paris Cedex, 01 40 44 30 00 ; site internet : http://www.inrs.fr ; courriel : info@inrs.fr). Forte de huit pages, cette fiche, qui a été mise à jour en 2011, porte le numéro 4 d’une collection de 311 fiches à ce jour. « Cyanure d’hydrogène » désigne le gaz (HCN) tandis que son synonyme, « acide cyanhydrique », est utilisé pour la solution. On se souviendra que le pesticide appelé Zyklon B, inventé dans les années 1920 et censé avoir été employé pour tuer en masse des détenus à Auschwitz et ailleurs, est de l’acide cyanhydrique sur base poreuse inerte (par exemple, de la terre d’infusoires). Pour sa production par la Société DEGESCH et pour sa description ainsi que sur les conditions (drastiques) d’emploi, on se reportera aux documents NI-9098 et NI-9912, tels que reproduits dans mon Mémoire en défense contre ceux qui m’accusent de falsifier l’histoire, Paris, La Vieille Taupe, 1980, XXIV-280 p. ; p. 161-178.
« Numéro CAS » désigne la référence américaine du gaz (Chemical Abstract Service) tandis que « Numéro CE » désigne la référence de la Communauté européenne.

En vue de faciliter et de résumer la lecture des sept premières pages de cette fiche (la huitième et dernière page ne contenant qu’une partie de la bibliographie), j’en reproduis ci-dessous les principaux fragments. On constatera que le HCN est a) hautement inflammable, b) hautement explosif et c) hautement dangereux pour l’environnement, à tel point qu’on ne saurait en concevoir l’emploi dans un crématoire.
Has Faurisson learned anything yet about the non-explosive range of HCN?

FPBerg

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Werd » Sat Jul 09, 2016 10:55 pm

Apparently not given his final paragraph. Via google translate.
To facilitate reading and summarizing the first seven pages of the event ( the eighth and last page contains only part of the bibliography ) , I reproduce below the main fragments. We find that HCN is a) highly flammable , b) highly explosive and c) highly dangerous for the environment to the point that we can not conceive jobs in a crematorium .
Can not conceive jobs in a crematorium? Well Germar Rudolf pointed out in the video that one could have operated crematoria without the danger of explosion. Hello? :lol:

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:02 am

Thanks Werd. Faurisson is hopeless, but I knew that. What I have trouble comprehending is that Faurisson has, nonetheless, been supported endlessly by a devoted pack of morons including even Germar Rudolf who knows better--or, at least, should know better.

Already in 1993 I pointed out in response to Faurisson's stupid "nine-word challenge"--see: http://www.nazigassings.com/faurisson.html --that in the Military Fumigation Manual it was recommended that the furnace be kept "on" during barracks fumigations so that the barracks would be warm enough to help the process. If a furnace tender were used, he should wear a gas mask. It meant nothing to Faurisson or to his devoted and thoroughly stupid followers. It is finally clear to me now in my old age that of the few people who have the brains to understand what I have been saying, even fewer have the guts to stand up or speak out--not merely against a pro-Jewish establishment--but even against a wacky demagogue like Faurisson. We are in big trouble.

Here is what I wrote a long time ago:
In the “Military Fumigation Manual” from the American Cyanimid Co. from 1943 which Faurisson also cited, there is indeed a brief discussion on page 12 as follows:

“If a mess hall is equipped with gas, blower-type heaters, these may be used for heating prior to fumigation, but they should be extinguished (including the pilot light) just before applying the fumigant. All pilot lights in boilers, ranges, etc., should be extinguished. Coal fires in cooking ranges should be banked so there will be no live flame during the fumigation.”

That text may look at first glance as if it is some evidence for a danger of explosion but note that there still is no mention of explosion" or anything explosive." In fact, nowhere within the entire manual is there any mention of any danger of explosion. Although the word boiler" appears, that is probably a typo and the word should probably be broiler" since the paragraph is about a mess hall. Pilot lights would have consumed some of the cyanide by ordinary combustion (just as they would consume oxygen) and would have reduced the amount of cyanide remaining in the air to kill infestation.

Faurisson chose to ignore some extremely important text which appears just prior to the above and which reads as follows:

“When outdoor conditions cause the indoor temperature to fall below 65 degrees F., it is desirable to heat the building for two or three hours before the Discoids are applied and during the fumigation so the insects will be warmed and therefore more susceptible to the gas.

Furnace rooms should not be sealed but the door should be locked and barred to prevent entry... The furnace (if coal) should be stoked so that heat will be satisfactorily maintained for the short period of exposure required, if possible. If not possible, the furnace tender should wear a gas mask when tending the fire.”

The reader should note that according to the above text, whenever the outdoor temperature is below 65 degrees Fahrenheit, the building should be heated “during the fumigation” to keep the building and insects warm. Also, if the furnace is in a room adjoining the room to be fumigated, ventilator openings above the furnace room door should be sealedbut not the door itself; it should simply be closed and lockedbut not sealed. The furnace may continue to operate to maintain room temperature provided that the furnace tender wear a gas mask when tending the fire." That key phrase totally refutes one of Faurisson's most often used arguments against the use of crematory furnaces near alleged gas chambers. Obviously, the danger that the furnace tenders might also bring about their own destruction in an explosion is not significant at all.
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