Size of Zyklon can

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blake121666
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Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:33 pm

A person is showing off different size Zyklon cans at this website:
http://3reich-collector.com/waffen-ss-t ... b-canister

The 500g can shown here looks like:
Image

This is very rough; but figure the height to be about 4 inches and the diameter to be about 5 inches, and you get

V = (3.14 * 2.5^2 * 4) in^3 = 78.5 in^3 or about 1/3 gallon.

I think a 1.5 kg can of Zyklon would be about a gallon. That site has a guy holding a 1.2 kg can and it looks to be about 3/4 gallon.

If anyone knows the exact sizes of the Zyklon cans, please tell me. I'm going to figure it roughly as 1.5 kg can = 1 gallon.

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:40 am

The following is a page from "Dr Bruno TESCH and The "Giftgas" Case" by the British No 2 War Crimes Investigation team:

The details on Zb were obtained from Karl Ruehmling, a "gassing master" with Tesch & Stabenow.

click to enlarge
Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 2:56 am

That's an interesting page but doesn't give the physical dimensions of the cans.

The sizes listed in (22) aren't exhaustive. I know that they made a 100 g can and a 2 kg can.

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:37 am

Here is a webpage with what looks like the same 500g can of Zyklon:

http://www.usmbooks.com/zyklon_b.html

And it says:
The can measures 3-5/8 x 5 inches.
That's pretty close to what I figured before. It's 3-5/8 and not 4 as I guestimated. Lets use 3-5/8 instead of 4; then I'm off by 3/8 an inch. One gets that 500g is in .31 gal => 1.6 kg in a gallon => 429 g in a liter.

This is roughly 400 grams in a quart (or liter) ... thereabouts.

If these cans are using the same carrier material as was used in Auschwitz, this is the size we are talking about for that (400g in a quart). A 2-kg can would be about 5 quarts (1 gallon and a quart).

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Scott » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:10 am

Hi Blake,

Here is some general information on Zyklon discoids for you.

Hope it helps. :)

Zyklon Discoids; Fumigation Manual.
New York: American Cyanamid & Chemical Corp. (1942), p39.

http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/44615042


“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

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blake121666
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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:23 am

Those are 3-5/8" discoids 0.10" thick which aren't really applicable of course. But the thing to keep in mind with the alleged HGC scenario, and as pointed out in this scan is the part:
In labratory tests, which were conducted by exposing Discoids to a fumigation period of two hours, and an aeration period of one hour, it was determined that the evolution of HCN after this period averaged 99.95%.
The alleged HGC scenario has Zyklon being used - which outgasses for hours in the temperature range we are talking about here. Speaking of concentrations such as Pressac does of, say 12 g/m^3 when referring to a 500 m^3, misleads. The Zyklon has to have its HCN evaporated and dispersed in any room. And this would take time. AND then you would have this Zyklon still outgassing after you've reached any type of concentration one might think to be needed throughout the room. The Zyklon used in this way doesn't lend itself to any quick killing scenario (not in any sensible way).

My suggestion of "pre-dispersing" the pellets would reduce dispersion rate of the relatively slowly evaporating pellets. Berg's suggestion of rapid pellet evaporation with a blower still has the dispersion problem - even with the blower.

Neither scenario would give any "3 minutes and everyone is dead" scenario in a very large room in any sensible application.

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Scott » Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:10 am

Hi Blake,

I don't see a "dispersion problem" but I do agree about the "3 minutes and everyone is dead" constraint being bogus. However, that is an artificial constraint based on lie-witness testimony and storytelling--about what people think that a gassing would be like, and not what it would have been like had something plausibly similar really happened to observe.

Btw, check your Private Messages again. I gave you a copy of the Zyklon Discoids publication in question. Eventually I will put it Online.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:52 am

Scott wrote:Hi Blake,

I don't see a "dispersion problem" but I do agree about the "3 minutes and everyone is dead" constraint being bogus. However, that is an artificial constraint based on lie-witness testimony and storytelling--about what people think that a gassing would be like, and not what it would have been like had something plausibly similar really happened to observe.

Btw, check your Private Messages again. I gave you a copy of the Zyklon Discoids publication in question. Eventually I will put it Online.

:)
You don't see a "dispersion problem"? How quickly do you think 4 piles of Zyklon will have its evaporated HCN dispersed throughout a 500 m^3 room? I would think it would take longer than a few minutes?

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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by Scott » Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:27 am

I agree that the claims are bogus, but I thought you said that Berg had the "problem." Sure, it would probably take more than a few minutes. Not a lot more, though. The Degesch units could turn around in a half-hour, but even if it took an hour, so what? It would take longer to deal with the bodies anyway.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

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blake121666
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Re: Size of Zyklon can

Post by blake121666 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:24 pm

Scott wrote:I agree that the claims are bogus, but I thought you said that Berg had the "problem." Sure, it would probably take more than a few minutes. Not a lot more, though. The Degesch units could turn around in a half-hour, but even if it took an hour, so what? It would take longer to deal with the bodies anyway.

:)
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't follow my own comment! "Mixing problem" ... call it a mixing problem. The dispersion problem is a "mixing problem" as well; but the blower method can't really be called a "dispersion problem" per se. With the blower, I'm imagining it somewhat similar to a window air conditioner in a big room.

Yeah, half an hour sounds about right ... maybe even 20 minutes. But not much less in any sensible scenario with the blower. Same deal with my pellet dispersion (which would be mixing through natural dispersion - not forced). The two problems are similar.

I have to start posting more clear posts. That's what happens when posting late on a Saturday night! Getting an appropriate concentration of HCN everywhere in the space in the smallest time in a sensible way is the general point.

That's the thing on my mind after reading the Pressac-Leuchter exchange. It's as if the WHOLE problem is never discussed. Just generalities about dosages and concentrations at full outgassing and dispersion - as if it would happen in 10 minutes or something. I don't think that's a good assumption with any sensible dosage (quantity of Zyklon laid).

That's Rudolf's point in his video of course.

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