Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

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Duke Umeroffen
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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by Duke Umeroffen » Fri Jan 01, 2016 7:10 pm

Fish's delusions will never cease.
Viking; North Utsire; South Utsire; Forties; Cromarty; ; Firth; Tyne; Dogger. Fisher; German Bight; Humber; Thames *; Dover;

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Nessie
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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by Nessie » Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:31 pm

Duke Umeroffen wrote:Fish's delusions will never cease.
He promises to do some research this year. Maybe he will be able to improve on his debunking of the myth that no animals will go to Auschwitz. Hopefully he will find all the millions of missing Jews and others last seen being taken by Nazis into various concentration camps.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Duke Umeroffen
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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by Duke Umeroffen » Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:19 am

The only thing anyone is interested in is the Fish Reporr
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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by Duke Umeroffen » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:11 am

Am I right. Nessie is about the only one at the mad hatters tea party known as rodoh still posting? That is what this place is,. Oh there is DP who finally exasperated with the whole circus has resorted to calling the Revs "twAts." Also Hans...he's been around recently, not that the revs understand.

Most revs are ignorant of the Holocaust anyway, biases and sympathies and antipathies get in the way of the Truth. They don't read books, they don't visit archives and they don't keep up with new publications.

REVISIONISTS! Play to your strengths. Wittering about old Adolf, Nazis, Immigration, ISIS, Isolationism, ranting about gas, mass graves, putting things in inverted commas, six million, plans...Joos, Jews. Show trials...

Year in and year out. I think we should just leave you to it, to sink into the grey dullness that is your cause.
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been-there
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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by been-there » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:34 am

been-there wrote: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2332&start=200

'THE Holocaust' is not just that Jews were ethnically cleansed from Germany and murdered en masse in Soviet Russia.
This neatly demonstrates the problem with how this whole 'THE Holocaust' topic is treated in public discussion. You true-believers don't even understand what is being contested by the vast majority of people who are beginning to be better informed about it.
This was precisely the problem with the Irving vs Lipstadt libel trial, the resulting judgement and the Judges politically-motivated erroneous summing up of it. And this denial and self-willed miscomprehension demonstrates the disconnect from reality that all people appear to have who attempt to discuss the topic from a 'true-believer', 'defend-at-all-costs' position. You fail to understand what actually is being contested. You argue against rather stupid and emotional strawmen.
The fact that current global society spectacularly fails to declare what aspects of the narrative may fairly be analysed and questioned demonstrates the psychosis. It obviously is the situation that NONE OF IT may be questioned without repercussions. This is what the Irving trial demonstrates. This is what the Ursula Haverbeck imprisonment demonstrates. This is what the outrageously unjust legal(?) treatment of the lawyer Sylvia Stolz demonstrates. This is what the international, inter-governmental, unjust treatment of people like Leuchter and Zündel demonstrates. This is what the J.S.Hayward historical academic case proves. This is what media-circus farce of a 'trial' of Oskar Gröning proves. Etc., etc., etc.

Nessie's argument spectaculary fails to understand even the most basic parts of the debate.
Nobody denies that Jews were forced to emigrate from Germany.
Nobody denies that the wartime NSDAP developed a policy called “die Endlösung der Judenfrage”.
Nobody denies that the Einzatsgrupp existed nor that it mass-executed people.
Etc., etc.

As for your quotes from the Wannsee protocol, you relied on a mistranslation of ”bei Freilassung".
Dealt with here
An article about Bolshevik massacres of people in prison camps in Soviet-occupied Eastern Poland during the Summer of 1941 reaches an interesting conclusion regarding the resulting attitudes of Wehrmacht troops towards Jews.

The article is in Swedish but here is a translation of the beginning and concluding parts:
Artur Szulc wrote: The NKVD's mass-murder of prisoners in 1941

In connection with the German attack on the Soviet Union in the summer of 1941, a chain of events were triggered that are ignored or at least described minimally in the general historical works about the war on the Eastern Front. Soviet NKVDs treatment of prisoners in the prisons close to the front is little known. A decision was made to either kill all the prisoners, or force them out on long marches that led to many dying or being killed by the NKVD guards.

In Lwów the Soviet occupation forces had established several prisons, both for civilian and for military prisoners. Brygidki Jail —an old convent from the late 1700s turned into a prison — was immediately taken over by the Soviets in September 1939 and quickly gained the reputation of being one of the worst. In the summer of 1941, about 13,000 Polish citizens were put in Brygidki. What would happen to them after the outbreak of war?

The day after the German attack Vsevolod Merkulov, deputy head of the NKVD, issued a Directive on the measures NKVD district in the western Soviet Union would take regarding inmates. The directive advocated prison administrations look over the prisoners they considered to be appropriate to evacuate, but also who would be shot. The Soviet power saw Prisoners as political criminals who would not be allowed to fall into German hands since it was convinced that they would be released and resume their anti-Soviet activities. Merkulovs instruction could only be applied to some extent in the front near the areas that comprised the Soviet Union's newly annexed eastern Poland and the Baltic states. There was thus limited time for the organisation of organised evacuations of prisoners. Additionally there was an absence of freight that could evacuate the prisoners. The fighting approached by leaps and possibly one can consider that the NKVD panicked, resulting in hysterical improvisation. This had devastating consequences for thousands of people who were locked in the former eastern Poland. In Lwów executions already started on 22 June.

NKVD abandoned the prison on the 28th of June and two days later Lwów was occupied by a mountain hunter division of the German 49th Army Corps. As early as June 29th relatives ventured to look for imprisoned family members. Inside the Brygidki they were met by macabre scenes. A Pole later testified before a German inquiry, initiated promptly after the occupation of Lwów:

Sunday, June 29, 1941, before 08:00 in the morning, I went into the NKVD prison to search for my brother who had been arrested by the NKVD in December last year. At this time the Russians had evacuated the prison but not yet actual Lemberg [Lwów]. I came into the prison and looked into the individual cells. A terrible picture appeared before me. The cells were overflowing with corpses of the murdered. In a room that measured 10 × 5 meters corpses were thrown upon each other to a height of 1.5 meters.

...Similar grisly finds were discovered by the invading Germans as well as by local residents in many localities. Every major and minor prison in the former eastern Poland had massacred prisoners. Here are a few examples: about 2,500 prisoners in Stanisławów, 2,754 in Luck, 150 in Równe and about 1,000 in Tarnopol. How many were executed in just Brygidki has not been determined but estimates speak of at least 4,000 victims. According to two Ukrainian writers who had studied the Soviet provincial archives and the excavation results from the mid-1990s, about 22,000 prisoners were killed in the former eastern Poland summer in 1941.

Of course the Germans took advantage in their propaganda of this Soviet mass-murder of prisoners. German soldiers were sent to prisons and shown piles of corpses. Thus the Nazi German regime could justify their own criminal orders, including the one ordering all captured political commissars in the Red Army to be executed on the spot. It was in the German interest to exaggerate the Soviet bestiality. Also among Polish and Ukrainian civilians, rumours were spread about Soviet cruelty. In many eyewitness accounts comes allegations that the NKVD would have subjected detainees to inhumane torture before they were shot. But as history professor Bogdan Musiał — who has written a book about the brutalisation on the Eastern Front in 1941 — says, these rumors are not entirely unproblematic. Sure, there were torture and inhumane methods of execution (grenades and hammer), but the NKVD had simply no time for torturing thousands of prisoners. And that the bodies of the murdered often looked terrible (tortured) was mainly due to: the summer heat; the NKVD using grenades during the executions; and that rats had started gnawing on the bodies. In some cases also, Ukrainian nationalists had caused the corpses even greater damage and used that as 'proof' for propaganda purposes. Their purpose was fomenting hatred against the Bolsheviks and to spur people to armed struggle.

Soviet crimes against the Polish, Ukrainian and Belarusian prisoners summer of 1941, is in itself despicable and it remains an undeniable fact, notwithstanding the findings after the massacre that it was used for propaganda purposes by different groups or of the German regime. Above all, one should consider how the Soviet crimes affected both the German soldiers' views of their opponents as the impact they had on the perception of Jews, which were regarded as Soviet regime supporters.

By Artur Szulc
http://www.arturszulc.se/2016/07/14/nkv ... ngar-1941/
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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been-there
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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by been-there » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:20 am

In 1985 Zundel’s attorney, Douglas Christie, pressed Hilberg to give historical evidence of a Hitler order to exterminate all Jews in Germany, a claim which Hilberg made in The Destruction of the European Jews. Hilberg eventually confessed that no such order existed. Then Christie on moved on to his next point: evidence for the gas chamber theory.

Hilberg: “What do you mean by a scientific report?”

Christie: “I don’t usually have to define simple words, but by ‘scientific report’ I mean a report conducted by anyone who purported to be a scientist and who examined physical evidence. Name one report of such a kind that showed the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazioccupied territory.”

Hilberg: “I still don’t quite understand the import of your question. Are you referring to a German, or a post-war—”

Christie: “I don’t care who — German, post-war, Allied, Soviet — any source at all. Name one.”

Hilberg: “To prove what?”

Christie: “To conclude that they have physically seen a gas chamber. One scientific report,” repeated Christie.

Hilberg: “I am really at loss. I am very seldom at such a loss, but…”

Judge Locke interrupted: “Doctor, do you know of such a report?”

Hilberg: “No.”

[Jurgen Graf, The Giant with Feet of Clay (Chicago: Theses & Dissertations Press, 2001), 113-114.]
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by laststarfighter » Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:06 am

been-there wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:20 am
In 1985 Zundel’s attorney, Douglas Christie, pressed Hilberg to give historical evidence of a Hitler order to exterminate all Jews in Germany, a claim which Hilberg made in The Destruction of the European Jews. Hilberg eventually confessed that no such order existed. Then Christie on moved on to his next point: evidence for the gas chamber theory.

Hilberg: “What do you mean by a scientific report?”

Christie: “I don’t usually have to define simple words, but by ‘scientific report’ I mean a report conducted by anyone who purported to be a scientist and who examined physical evidence. Name one report of such a kind that showed the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazioccupied territory.”

Hilberg: “I still don’t quite understand the import of your question. Are you referring to a German, or a post-war—”

Christie: “I don’t care who — German, post-war, Allied, Soviet — any source at all. Name one.”

Hilberg: “To prove what?”

Christie: “To conclude that they have physically seen a gas chamber. One scientific report,” repeated Christie.

Hilberg: “I am really at loss. I am very seldom at such a loss, but…”

Judge Locke interrupted: “Doctor, do you know of such a report?”

Hilberg: “No.”

[Jurgen Graf, The Giant with Feet of Clay (Chicago: Theses & Dissertations Press, 2001), 113-114.]
they did one later. for some reason the Nazis keep destroying or dismantling these alleged gas chambers. maybe they didnt want the Soviet troops using them as housing, etc, but they still found cyanide traces from Zyklon B in the walls in the remains

https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-his ... chemistry/

time for some more Denier dice rolls:

15 points - Okay there was cyanide in the walls of these structures, but it doesn't mean anything

50 points - the researchers cherry picked the samples under pressure from the Jews

100 points - the researchers never even went to Auschwitz, they fabricated all the data from scratch because the Jews bribed them/were holding their families hostage.

1000 points - Auschwitz never happened, it's all a post war Jewish invention

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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by Nisco » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:54 pm

laststarfighter:
For some reason the Nazis keep destroying or dismantling these alleged gas chambers.
Now the DULLusionalist is talking about magically disappearing "gas chambers"!

:lol:

At least you got the alleged part right!

:lol:

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Re: Evidence "Holocaust" without resorting to testimony canard

Post by Nisco » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:02 pm

Duke Umeroffen:
Most revs are ignorant... They don't read books
Would you like to educate "revisionists" about what this book:

https://books.google.com/books/about/Be ... lnAAAAMAAJ

alleges about "huge mass graves" at Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka II?

Duke Umeroffen:
Most revs are ignorant... they don't visit archives
Would you like to discuss the blatant contradictions in this Yitzak Arad quote:
“This [Treblinka II] is the biggest cemetery of Polish Jewry…

There are 870,000 Jews buried in the enormous ditches…

Within this area initially, the Jews were buried in enormous pits… Later on, a sort of grill from railroad tracks was built. The corpses were removed and this area served for burning the corpses… Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka - all three of them were utterly eradicated…

Both Treblinka and the other camps, once they had fulfilled their task of extermination, were obliterated…

Nothing remains - nothing.”

https://web.archive.org/web/20090119090 ... php?t=3166

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