The Turner Letter

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Nessie
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The Turner Letter

Post by Nessie »

The Turner Letter, fake or fact?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Turner

Already some months ago, I shot dead all the Jews I could get my hands on in this area, concentrated all the Jewish women and children in a camp and with the help of the SD got my hands on a "delousing van," that in about 14 days to 4 weeks will have brought about the definitive clearing out of the camp..." Dr. Harold Turner's letter to Karl Wolff, dated April 11, 1942
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.


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Nessie
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by Nessie »

Last edited by Scott on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: url tags
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by Werd »

If Santiago Alvarez is wrong, somebody better point it out. Care to give it a go, Nessie?

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=66095#p66095
Edit - FIND "2.2.7. The Turner Letter, 1 1 April 1942"
and
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=66097#p66097

rollo the ganger
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by rollo the ganger »

Already some months ago, I shot dead all the Jews I could get my hands on in this area, concentrated all the Jewish women and children in a camp and with the help of the SD got my hands on a "delousing van," that in about 14 days to 4 weeks will have brought about the definitive clearing out of the camp..." Dr. Harold Turner's letter to Karl Wolff, dated April 11, 1942
The original letter said, instead of "shot dead": "...I gave a shot to all the Jews..." so the message really said:
Already some months ago, I gave a shot to all the Jews I could get my hands on in this area, concentrated all the Jewish women and children in a camp and with the help of the SD got my hands on a delousing van, that in about 14 days to 4 weeks will have brought about the definitive clearing out of the camp..." Dr. Harold Turner's letter to Karl Wolff, dated April 11, 1942
Amazing how tweaking a word here or there can change the meaning of a whole statement. The sinister suggesting quote marks around "delousing van" weren't there either.

rollo the ganger
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by rollo the ganger »

I'm being somewhat facetious of course in my previous post. My REAL question regarding the letter would be if Germans of that time frame would be using "air-quotes" to indicate a euphemism. Maybe Wilf could enlighten us on this.

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DasPrussian
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by DasPrussian »

rollo the ganger wrote:I'm being somewhat facetious of course in my previous post. My REAL question regarding the letter would be if Germans of that time frame would be using "air-quotes" to indicate a euphemism. Maybe Wilf could enlighten us on this.
According to wiki the first recorded mention of 'air quotes' was in 1927 in 'Science' magazine which gives ample time for even the humourless Germans to pick up on it.

Surely the question you need to ask yourself regarding this letter is if it was a forgery then why was the term 'delousing van' used in the first place. If someone wanted to frame Turner then why not just use the phrase 'gas van' ( without the sarcastic quote marks) ?
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Nessie
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Re: The Turner Letter

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Werd wrote:If Santiago Alvarez is wrong, somebody better point it out. Care to give it a go, Nessie?

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=66095#p66095
Edit - FIND "2.2.7. The Turner Letter, 1 1 April 1942"
and
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=66097#p66097
I do not know if the letter is a fake or not. To help me decide can you tell me who Alvarez is? Has he actually physically examined the letter? What is his expertise/experience/knowledge in the matter? Has he got an agenda to support denial/revisionism by arguing it is a fake?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

rollo the ganger
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by rollo the ganger »

DP wrote:According to wiki the first recorded mention of 'air quotes' was in 1927 in 'Science' magazine which gives ample time for even the humourless Germans to pick up on it.
So what? It doesn't mean the Germans picked up using quotation marks (air-quotes) to designate euphemisms.
DP wrote:Surely the question you need to ask yourself regarding this letter is if it was a forgery then why was the term 'delousing van' used in the first place. If someone wanted to frame Turner then why not just use the phrase 'gas van' ( without the sarcastic quote marks) ?
I've already shown in my last post it is possible to take a totally innocuous letter and by changing only a couple of words change the entire meaning. As for adding "air-quotes" the following example suffices:

We sent the Jews to the showers. (Meaning they actually did. The Jews took showers and cleaned up themselves.)

... add air-quotes to the same sentence and we get:

We sent the Jews to the "showers". (Ooooooooh! Now that is insidious. A euphemism for "gas chamber"!!!)

No need to change the term 'delousing van' to 'gas van' if that was in the original letter. In fact, the effect is greater, more insidious, if a euphemism is used.

Werd
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by Werd »

To help me decide can you tell me who Alvarez is?
Not necessary to be able to see if any of his statements are illogical or his summaries or conclusions on certain passages are correct or not.
Has he actually physically examined the letter?
Dumb question since he picks it apart line by line.
What is his expertise/experience/knowledge in the matter?
How about dealing with his arguments in and of themselves as copied and pasted onto codoh?

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DasPrussian
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Re: The Turner Letter

Post by DasPrussian »

rollo the ganger wrote:
DP wrote:According to wiki the first recorded mention of 'air quotes' was in 1927 in 'Science' magazine which gives ample time for even the humourless Germans to pick up on it.
So what? It doesn't mean the Germans picked up using quotation marks (air-quotes) to designate euphemisms.
No, but what it does mean is that the likelihood that the Nazis did use them has increased significantly from this morning, a time when you didn't know when air quotes were first documented.

rollo the ganger wrote:
DP wrote:Surely the question you need to ask yourself regarding this letter is if it was a forgery then why was the term 'delousing van' used in the first place. If someone wanted to frame Turner then why not just use the phrase 'gas van' ( without the sarcastic quote marks) ?
I've already shown in my last post it is possible to take a totally innocuous letter and by changing only a couple of words change the entire meaning. As for adding "air-quotes" the following example suffices:
But this letter wasn't innocuous. Apart from Turner mentioning the shooting of Jewish men, (which you already have mentioned but you appear to be speculating that shooting meant innoculation !!!!!), others have testified that in Semlin approx. 8,000 jews were gassed. These 'others' include the commander of the security police in Belgrade, Emanual Schafer. ( See Brownings Origin of the Final Solution. page 422)
We sent the Jews to the showers. (Meaning they actually did. The Jews took showers and cleaned up themselves.)

... add air-quotes to the same sentence and we get:

We sent the Jews to the "showers". (Ooooooooh! Now that is insidious. A euphemism for "gas chamber"!!!)
Yes, that sounds like something the Nazis would do. Especially since they disguised gas chambers as shower rooms. Well spotted.
No need to change the term 'delousing van' to 'gas van' if that was in the original letter. In fact, the effect is greater, more insidious, if a euphemism is used.
You may think the effect is greater. But it isn't. How could the word delousing in quotes possibly sound as bad as a word that describes the gassing to death of innocent people ???? It's like me calling you either 1) a cunt, or 2) a " table ". Now what would be more incriminating?????????? If you think the answer is 2), then you really are a right stupid "table".
All I want for Christmas is a Dukla Prague away kit

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