The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

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Nessie
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by Nessie » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:25 pm

theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:
Nessie wrote:It is not a riddle at all. Someone may have seen cracks forming and it was decided to fix it before it collapses. That banding and shortening regularly happens with chimneys that fall out of use. It is likely that it will also have been capped so birds cannot get inside.
Is that banding? Looks like concrete to me. Pics to big to post here:

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/ca459c9be3a ... eddc92.jpg

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/f6c3de14cf6 ... 6089eb.jpg


.......
It looks just like the banding that was put round lots of chimneys where I used to live. No one in those old flats used their coal fires any more and the chimneys were out of use. Many were shortened and/or had bands of metal put round them. The metal was painted to stop it rusting.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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been-there
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by been-there » Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:48 pm

theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:
been-there wrote:Is there any evidence for that? that the Yanks removed the piping from the attic?
Not that I know of unfortunately.
Dalton cites a NYT article:
New York Times:
"There were no water connections to the showers, but instead the pipes were supplied from the same gas pipes that led to the cremation chambers...." (9 May 1945, p. 17)
So someone had at least been up in the attic before the Congressmen arrived.
Ah! So there WERE pipes originally connected to the shower-heads. And they WERE after the 'liberation' removed.
Well then it seems to be closed case.
Isn't it the official H-narrative, that neither ZyklonB nor any other alleged gas was ever claimed to have been adminstered through water pipes to shower heads, but always by dropping in pellets, or via motor-engine exhausts?
I understood also that despite the popular holocaust mythology still retaining the gas-chamber-disguised-as-shower-room trope, it has no basis in fact, as exposed so clearly by Eric Hunt's exposé of the Majdanek camp mythology. I.e. that all the existent alleged gaschambers-with-shower-heads actually functioned as showers.

BOTTOM LINE:
If the Dachau-alleged-gas-chamber originally had ANY type of plumbing pipes connected to the currently still existing shower heads, then this tends to prove it was a functioning shower and that the Yanks removed the evidence for that to perpetrate a hoax regarding Dachau for the press and thus world opinion.

If so then I take and accept what I understand is your overall point, that the lowered ceiling allegation does not serve an accurate re-analysis of the 'holocaust' narrative, and does appear to be false.
The removal of the plumbing from the attic is what people need to know, to properly guage how Dachau was used to misinform the public.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by blake121666 » Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:20 pm

This picture from BROI from earlier in the thread shows how thick the shower wall block is:

Image

From this, the shower's block wall looks to be about the same thickness as the interior brick wall - maybe a little less thick. Is the interior brick wall 2 wythes of brick or is the back end bricked over?

Why is it different from the other pictures of the "peephole"? Someone must have knocked out some pieces (or added some) between these photos.

Image

P.S. My anchor bolt speculation earlier is definitely incorrect. I work in the steel business and when you hook steel into block you do things this way - large anchors going into solid block. But in this case (block to block wythes) you just use flimsy little strap anchors (or at most a very small anchor). I'm pretty sure I was wrong with this speculation after looking into it a little bit.

P.P.S. I scaled the elevation drawings manually using a 64th inch rule and the drawings have the ceiling at about 7.6 feet (using the roof's "7.46" dimension to mean 7.46 meters). So if the ceiling was modified, it was modified above the existing ceiling. Or those drawings were made afterwards. Using the gridlines in MS Paint on the picture gives the same result. The drawings show that the top of ceiling to bottom truss chord to be about half of the distance from floor to ceiling, or about 3.8 ft. It only looks to be about 8 or so rows of bricks in that attic picture. So Bob is right, the ceiling is abnormally thick. But the height from floor to ceiling is drawn as it is now. This leads me back to thinking the drawing was made after the fact. For one thing, that ceiling wall connection is as shoddy as can be.

So here is a rundown of things to look into:

1. Recessed shower heads
2. Too many floor drains? Why so many?
3. Shoddy wall-ceiling connection
4. Initial report claimed ceiling 10 ft high
- Very early pictures and video shows ceiling at current height
5. Elevation plan of May 1942 shows current ceiling height: 7.6 ft
6. Thickness of ceiling
7. Zyklon-B flaps not mentioned in any early reports
8. What is the cavity between flaps?
- Jansson speculates: attempted peephole
9. What are the 2 sets of valves and piping in the corridor
- in and out ventilation through the 2 ceiling vents?

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:14 pm

Scott wrote: The Corporal with the headgear looks genuine. Maybe it was raining that day, and it would probably be pretty cold in April too, and maybe even in May.

You're right; there was snow in Dachau in May 1945:

Image
@ 1:09: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3j9e6 ... lor_people

Image
http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarc ... id=1144535

Image
@ 1:38: http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip- ... mbers.html


Even the English south-coast was suffering:

Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:58 pm

blake121666 wrote:This picture from BROI from earlier in the thread shows how thick the shower wall block is:

Image

From this, the shower's block wall looks to be about the same thickness as the interior brick wall - maybe a little less thick. Is the interior brick wall 2 wythes of brick or is the back end bricked over?

Why is it different from the other pictures of the "peephole"? Someone must have knocked out some pieces (or added some) between these photos.

Image
I took both those photos, just seconds apart. They're just taken at different angles. Both are cropped, here are the originals:
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/3ea75be57f3 ... 367fed.jpg
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/bcc62c2ce37 ... 306ca6.jpg

P.P.S. I scaled the elevation drawings manually using a 64th inch rule and the drawings have the ceiling at about 7.6 feet (using the roof's "7.46" dimension to mean 7.46 meters). So if the ceiling was modified, it was modified above the existing ceiling. Or those drawings were made afterwards. Using the gridlines in MS Paint on the picture gives the same result. The drawings show that the top of ceiling to bottom truss chord to be about half of the distance from floor to ceiling, or about 3.8 ft. It only looks to be about 8 or so rows of bricks in that attic picture. So Bob is right, the ceiling is abnormally thick. But the height from floor to ceiling is drawn as it is now. This leads me back to thinking the drawing was made after the fact. For one thing, that ceiling wall connection is as shoddy as can be.

Good work on the measurements. But don't you think if the plan was a post-war fabrication they would've been sure to draw in the all important Zyklon-B introduction flaps?
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:13 pm

blake121666 wrote:Is the interior brick wall 2 wythes of brick or is the back end bricked over?
The back end of the peep-hole was bricked-up and plastered over. As I already documented.

Judging by my photos of the "peep hole" from inside the "gas chamber", the walls consist of two wythes of brick and one of stone blocks.

Here's another angle of the "peep hole".

Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:31 pm

Here's the "peep hole" from the corridor.

Image
http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarc ... m&index=37
PHOTO INFORMATION

Photograph:_______#75045
Date:_____________Sunday, April 01, 1945
Locale:___________Dachau, [Bavaria] Germany
Credit:____________United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, courtesy of William and Dorothy McLaughlin
Copyright:_________United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
Very specific detailing of the day it was taken: "Sunday, April 01, 1945"!

Who were the Mclauglins and why the hell did they have a photo of the alleged gassing apparatus taken almost a month before the Americans rolled into to Dachau?

And why was the "peep hole" smashed out of the wall, and by whom?
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:26 pm

blake121666 wrote: 8. What is the cavity between flaps?
- Jansson speculates: attempted peephole
Here's two photos dated May 1, 1945, which were donated to the USHMM (both were printed from negatives the wrong way around, but I've corrected them here):

The enormous crack emanating from that cavity would be on the edge of the first photo were it present in May 1945. But a good portion of it would be in the second photo.

It looks to be present to me:

Image
http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarc ... um&index=7

Image
http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarc ... m&index=13

Image

UPDATE:

The crack should be, and arguably is, present in these photos also:

Image

Image
Last edited by theblackrabbitofinlé on Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:08 pm

The Ghetto Fighter's House has a photo of the plans for the Kori ovens in the new crematorium:

Image
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh/notebo ... g&site=gfh
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé » Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:16 pm

The GFH also has a photo partially showing the "peep hole":

Image
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh/notebo ... g&site=gfh

And a later one when all these objects had been removed:

Image
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh/notebo ... g&site=gfh
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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