The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

The claim that the Dachau gas chamber ceiling was lowered dates to at least the early 1960s:
Admission of no gassing at the camp was an important milestone, but the much more serious charge of deliberate deception continued to appear. In 1961, the journal of the British National Party, Combat, published an article titled “Jewish Deceit at Dachau”:
"When Dachau fell into Western hands in 1945, it had to look the part, so…it was transformed into a showplace of horrors. … The camp had to have a gas chamber, so, since one did not exist, it was decided to pretend that the shower bath had been one. Previously it had flagstones to a height of about four feet [on the walls]. Similar flagstones were taken [from the adjacent room] and put above those in the shower bath, and a new lower ceiling was created at the top of this second row of flagstones, with iron funnels in it (the [fake] inlets for the gas)."
(Combat, Jan/Feb 1961, issue #10, p. 4).

http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... dachau.php

(the same article also appeared in some far-right U.S. publications inc: https://archive.org/stream/foia_NSRP-Ch ... 5/mode/2up)


In the early 1960s, there were an awful lot of claims (or denials) appearing in the West-German press about the Americans having constructed the gas chamber at Dachau after the war. Lord Russell of Liverpool had been shown around Dachau in the summer of 1960 by a former Wehrmacht general who told him: "The so-called gas chamber, was really a shower bath ... those gas ovens were built by German prisoners after the war." (Telegraph, 27.07.60, p.10) Russell's article led to an up-cry in the West-German parliament and calls for revenge by the usual suspects.

I've previously made my case that the claim the ceiling was lowered is rubbish:
A rebuttal of the alleged new, lower ceiling

It has long been claimed by revisionists that the Americans installed a lower ceiling into the alleged gas chamber as part of their adjustments to the building, but this claim has no foundation. The man looking upwards in the centre of the picture below is the Senator of Illinois, Charles Wayland Brooks, who visited Dachau on May 2, 1945. The low ceiling in the photograph is the same one that is there today.

Image

Further confirmation is the date on the slate board in this footage (alternative) shot in the "gas chamber" on May 3, 1945. The so-called [Zyklon-B introduction] "flaps" don't feature, as they didn't then exist, but once again the ceiling shown is the one that is still there today.



Image

The argument that the Americans installed a new, lower ceiling, is based entirely on the rough estimate of the ceiling's height given in the report presented to the U.S. Congress on May 15, 1945: "the ceiling was some 10 feet in height." It was a shoddy estimate, sure—it's actually 7 feet 6 inches high, Fred Leuchter measured it in 1989—but it's remarkable that this small error should even be considered as proof by virtually all the leading revisionists that the ceiling was replaced.

Below is a photograph of part of the museum sign outside the alleged gas chamber. The attic space immediately above the "gas chamber" is in the foreground, and you can see it's at a lower elevation than the adjoining room. Please notice the brick work in the wall is different to that below the ceiling level (see image below) despite them being the same wall, this on its own suggests the ceiling is original, as builders often concern themselves less with the aesthetics of the parts of a construction which are out of sight.

Image
enlarged: http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/d5ed1f22ddc ... c22e07.jpg

Image
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... orium.html


In addition to that, this facsimile of the original plan for the new crematorium, which I photographed at the Dachau memorial, shows that a section of it (Schnitt C-D) was to have a lower ceiling, and the "gas chamber" is the only ground-floor level room in the crematorium with a low ceiling:

Image
original: http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/35b82a8fd12 ... 4199c8.jpg
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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blake121666
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by blake121666 »

If the dates on the pictures and the video links are correct, then I am inclined to agree with your assessment since these are 2-3 days after liberation and they would have had to gotten right on it with the lower ceiling makeover. While not impossible, the ceiling doesn't look brand new to me in the photos and videos. That blueprint appears to be what you claim as well - a dropped ceiling below the truss bottom. It's too bad the section C-D cut line isn't shown anywhere. I've always taken it for granted that the Americans lowered the ceiling: it looks like pretty shoddy work to me, frankly. But you might've changed my mind with this.

Notice that the section C-D shows the trusses running perpendicular to 3 walls (2 external and 1 internal) - whereas your picture has trusses directly on top of an internal and external wall. If that drawing section is to correspond to your picture, there must be a wall under that truss we see in the C-D section. And therefore we are looking the other way as your picture since C-D is looking "into" the room with the dropped ceiling. But then your picture has the external wall on the left side and not the right side (per section C-D). So section C-D cannot correspond to your picture (unless the architect shows things backwards).

What is your take on the shower heads in the ceiling in these pictures? Real shower heads or added by the Americans?

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blake121666
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by blake121666 »

I think I've now figured that blueprint out.

Image

If you look at the sketch here, the C-D cut is a vertical cut through the room labelled Gaskammer here and looking to the right. You see the corridor on the left. Your ceiling picture is the right corner between the Gaskammer and the Totenkammer. So that rear truss in the C-D section is the front truss in your picture - it runs along the wall between the Gaskammer and the Totenkammer. I was confused in that I thought that the rear of your ceiling picture was an external wall; but it is the wall for the Verbrennungsraum which is perpendicular and higher than the direction of the rest of the building. Now I see it. So if that blueprint is authentic, this is pretty good proof that the ceiling was lowered per 1942 specs.

In your ceiling picture: what is the duct running from the Verbrennungsraum to the Gaskammer? It doesn't look like it is for water. If it were a heating duct, it wouldn't drop from the ceiling. A heating duct would run along the floor.

EDIT: I keep calling your "attic picture", the "ceiling picture". Just substitute "ceiling picture" with "attic picture" in my posts.

EDIT: changed postimmg.org to postimg.cc
Last edited by blake121666 on Wed May 16, 2018 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

Some excellent observations blake.
In your ceiling picture: what is the duct running from the Verbrennungsraum to the Gaskammer? It doesn't look like it is for water. If it were a heating duct, it wouldn't drop from the ceiling. A heating duct would run along the floor.
I think that was for taking steam out of the shower room. And that the semi-circular object it's attached to is an extraction unit.
What is your take on the shower heads in the ceiling in these pictures? Real shower heads or added by the Americans?
I think they're the originals, but the Americans ripped out the piping in the attic.

Here's a few pictures of the pipes in the corridor:

Image

Which are in the approximate position I've indicated on the plan:

Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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blake121666
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by blake121666 »

I'm still on the fence about who made the low ceiling. If that blueprint is authentic, then I'm inclined to think that the Germans made the low ceiling. But it looks so shoddy. The camp was liberated on April 29th. So May 3rd when that film was shot and the Senator inspected it is on the 4th day after liberation (30th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd). I don't believe that room was ever a shower room because Dachau had a shower room:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... hower.html
And the last photo on
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... ior04.html

Those flared things holding the shower head caps is not the way shower heads would be fitted in a functioning shower. After reading Dalton's essay that Hanover pasted on CODOH:

http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... dachau.php

I see that that pipe in your attic picture (not the lower duct I was referring to before, but the pipe above) appears to relate to one of the stories made up by the Americans:
There were no water connections to the showers, but instead the pipes were supplied from the same gas pipes that led to the cremation chambers.
That pipe might just be a large conduit pipe though (that's what I thought at first).

BTW, on that picture of barrack X that you bought, I can't make out "January" in that writing. The first letter looks like a capital "S" to me.

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

blake121666 wrote:I'm still on the fence about who made the low ceiling. If that blueprint is authentic, then I'm inclined to think that the Germans made the low ceiling. But it looks so shoddy. The camp was liberated on April 29th. So May 3rd when that film was shot and the Senator inspected it is on the 4th day after liberation (30th, 1st, 2nd, 3rd). I don't believe that room was ever a shower room because Dachau had a shower room:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... hower.html
And the last photo on
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/DachauScr ... ior04.html

Those flared things holding the shower head caps is not the way shower heads would be fitted in a functioning shower. After reading Dalton's essay that Hanover pasted on CODOH:

http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/ ... dachau.php

I see that that pipe in your attic picture (not the lower duct I was referring to before, but the pipe above) appears to relate to one of the stories made up by the Americans:
There were no water connections to the showers, but instead the pipes were supplied from the same gas pipes that led to the cremation chambers.
That pipe might just be a large conduit pipe though (that's what I thought at first).

BTW, on that picture of barrack X that you bought, I can't make out "January" in that writing. The first letter looks like a capital "S" to me.

You've linked to photos of the shower-room in the former maintenance building, which was roughly 0.5 kms away. But why do you think that there'd only be one set of showers in the entire camp? Take for example Mauthausen: Its "gas chamber" (really a shower room) is located in the crematorium (which was in a basement), and the camp's large shower room for the prisoners was some 170 metres from the "gas chamber". The crematorium in Mauthausen, and Buchenwald, had a shower room, likely because working in a crematorium, handling all the coal/coke, was a filthy job. I know the case for it being a shower-room isn't gas tight (no pun intended) yet; we don't know where the water tank was located (although presumably it was somewhere in the attic). But what do you think the room was for if not a gas chamber nor a shower room (think of the tiled floor with the drains)?

Here's another photo of the crematorium plan. It's my photo of a page from a book published in 1978, which features the same plan, but from a nigh on 40-year-old photocopy, hence the poor quality.

Image

We can be sure that there were never any pipes supplying gas to the 16 individual shower-heads as claimed by Gideon Seymour, because no such piping appears in the diagrams by Captain Fribourg in his report of May 1945:

Image
French Military Mission with the Sixth Army Group, Chemical Warfare, nr.
23/Z, Chambre à gaz de Dachau, Rapports du capitaine Fribourg, 5 and 17
May 1945, five pages, 6 plates, one photo (25 May 1945) (original language:
French). Captain Fribourg, after a one-day examination of Dachau,
did not reach any definitive conclusion in his report. He felt that a second
visit would be necessary to discover the system for circulation of the poison
gas and the possible connections with the disinfection gas chambers located
nearby. He also recommended an investigation of all the walls.

p. 150 - http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/16-tlr.pdf
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

blake121666 wrote:BTW, on that picture of barrack X that you bought, I can't make out "January" in that writing. The first letter looks like a capital "S" to me.
What do you think the word might be then?

Look at the man's 'D' in Dachau and 'G' in Germany. He just wrote his capital letters elaborately.


Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by blake121666 »

I'd like to know what the room next door looks like with the high ceiling and brick at the top 2 or 3 feet of it. Looking at the picture showing the adjacent room through the doorway, it appears that the top of that room has board at the top covering the brick. The door jambs are particularly wide as well.

The drains in the floor suggest to me that there were water pipes going somewhere into that room. I have to investigate further.

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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

You can see that room immediately south-west of the "gas chamber" in my video:



And this is the room immediately north-east of the "gas chamber":

Image

Image
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: The Dachau "gas chamber" ceiling, lowered or not?

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

blake121666 wrote:The drains in the floor suggest to me that there were water pipes going somewhere into that room. I have to investigate further.
The museum claims this was the water-tap for hosing down the "gas chamber" post gassing:

Image

Image

And that top hatch was supposedly the peep-hole. The other side was long-ago bricked-up and plastered over.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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