Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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been-there
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Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

Post by been-there »

The Birkenau camp was huge, covering 425 acres.
The boundaries of Birkenau stretch a mile in one direction and a mile and a half in the other direction. When construction was completed, it had over 300 buildings with a capacity of 200,000 prisoners.
The entire Birkenau camp was enclosed by an electrified barbed wire fence around the perimeter of the camp.

The interior of the camp was divided into nine sections and each section was surrounded by another electrified barbed wire fence.
Men and women were in separate sections, and the younger children stayed in the women's section.

There were no crematory ovens at Birkenau in 1942, and at the Auschwitz main camp, there were only three ovens, which could burn 340 bodies in a 24-hour period.

Birkenau was built on marshy ground which had to be drained. The ground at Birkenau is so wet that there are spots at the western end that look like a bog garden with plants that grow only in wet places.

The photo below shows prisoners digging a drainage ditch at the western end of the camp. This was part of Heinrich Himmler's ambitious plan to set up a huge farm at Auschwitz.

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According to the book entitled "Auschwitz, 1270 to the present" by Deborah Dwork and Robert Jan van Pelt, Heinrich Himmler got the idea of using the Auschwitz concentration camp to establish a large agricultural estate as early as November 1940 after Auschwitz Commandant Rudolf Höß paid him a visit. "The two men began to plan the transformation of Auschwitz into an agricultural experiment station which would service the entire region."

At that early date, the projected inmate population of Auschwitz was 10,000 and Himmler envisioned that most of them would work on the experimental farm, according to Dwork and van Pelt. "It was the metamorphosis of the camp into an agricultural estate worked by slaves that caught [Himmler's] fancy; it fit his fantasy of the German east, and he was enraptured by the vision of Auschwitz playing a central role in the reclamation of that area."
The town of Auschwitz had originally been built by Germans and German farmers had formerly owned the land in the area, which Himmler wanted to reclaim for the Greater German Reich.

According to the book by Dwork and Van Pelt, most of the labour on the Auschwitz-Birkenau experimental farm was done by women.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Auschwitz ... au01B.html
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In this image we see Allied bombs descending over Birkenau which were targeting the war industry factories.

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Here we see children — some dressed by Soviet photographers in oversized striped prisonwear for propaganda purposes — photographed by Soviet forces at the war's end. Children who according to the currently enforced narrative should have been "gassed" upon arrival at Birkenau.

Image
Last edited by been-there on Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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been-there wrote:....... Children who according to the currently enforced narrative should have been "gassed" upon arrival at Birkenau
Please show a so called enforced narrative which states that every single child who went to Birkenau was gassed on arrival.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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This topic thread has come out of the discussion I had with a work colleaugue who believed that 'Auschwitz' is proof of a policy of mass murder by gassing because it had a railway line that went into a labour camp.
Described here.
He had no knowledge that 'Auschwitz' was a huge labour camp. He also could not believe that there were facilities such as a canteens, a swimming pool, a cinema, recreational and sports facilities, a brothel, and that inmates were paid for their work first in money and later on in camp coupons. Yet despite not knowing all this, it was he who became upset and slightly angry when informed of these facts. Facts which he called "lies". Nor knew that it consisted of three seperate camps.
Nor did he know that only one of these, Birkenau, was the alleged extermination camp with the alleged homicidal gas-chambers.
I also did not know much about Birkenau the camp. As corrected by Bob, I wrongly thought it was a sub-camp. I hadn't realised it was so large.
Nor that it had such a large number of inmates. 200,000? In a designated death-camp, and top-secret factory-of-death??
Last edited by been-there on Fri Nov 14, 2014 8:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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If you want to discuss facts, it is best not to start of with a lie. The gas chambers only functioned for part of the camps history. So that alone should tell you not all children were gassed on arrival.

There was more than three camps. There were also Soviet and British POW camps. If you want this to be on topic and Birkenau, there was no brothel, swimming pool or cinema.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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been-there
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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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According to this Auschwitz website, there were MORE than 40 camps and sub-camps that made up the Auschwitz complex. Birkenau was the largest of these "more than forty" camps and sub-camps.
All over the world, Auschwitz has become a symbol of terror, genocide, and the Holocaust.
It was established by Germans in 1940, in the suburbs of Oswiecim, a Polish city that was annexed to the Third Reich by the Nazis. Its name was changed to Auschwitz, which also became the name of Konzentrationslager Auschwitz.

The direct reason for the establishment of the camp was the fact that mass arrests of Poles were increasing beyond the capacity of existing "local" prisons. ...Auschwitz was to be one more concentration camp of the type that the Nazis had been setting up since the early 1930s. It functioned in this role throughout its existence...

Birkenau was the largest of the more than 40 camps and sub-camps that made up the Auschwitz complex. During its three years of operation, Birkenau had a range of functions. When construction began in October 1941, it was designed and built to be a camp for 125 thousand prisoners of war.

The first plans for the Birkenau camp envisioned an initial capacity of 100 to 125 thousand prisoners. This concept underwent changes several times in 1942. The revised plans called for a doubling of capacity, to 200 thousand. The camp would be divided into four parts, often referred to as construction segments (Bauabschnitte), designated by roman numerals. The first segment was planned for 20 thousand prisoners, and the other three for 60 thousand each. The whole camp would cover an area of 175 acres.
Compare that with the previous Birkenau site I linked to which stated:
The Birkenau camp is huge, covering 425 acres. ...Birkenau was by far the largest camp in the Nazi concentration camp system, and the overwhelming majority of the prisoners were Jews who did not work. There were no factories at Birkenau; the whole camp was intended to be a death factory for gassing the Jews.
So is it 175 acres or 425 acres?
1.Was the "whole camp intended to be a death camp for gassing Jews"?
2. Or was it "intended" to be a camp for "PoWs"?
3. Or was it designed to be an "experimental farm" project?
4. Or was it "constructed (beginning in October 1941) to ease congestion at the main camp." as Wikipedia maintains?

Who knows? Whatever. We should only understand that it is only racist, hateful, anti-semite, neo-Nazis who would dare ask such a trivial question. :roll:
It must only be understood and accepted as "a symbol of terror, genocide, and the Holocaust."
Last edited by been-there on Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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http://www.ihr.org/images/jhr/v18/v18n4p-7_Birkenau.jpg

Features of Birkenau camp (Auschwitz II):
1. Rail siding and "selection" ramp
2. Crematory facility (Krema) II
3. Crematory facility (Krema) III
4. Crematory facility (Krema) IV
5. Crematory facility (Krema) V
6. "Disinfection and Disinfestation Facility," also known as the "Central Sauna"
7. "Canada" section, where inmates' belongings were sorted and stored
8. Hospital or sick bay section
9. "Gypsy Camp" section
10. "Men's Camp" section
11. "Hungarian Camp" section
12. "Family camp" section
13. "Women's Camp" section
15. Entry gate for rail transport

Image

There is NOTHING here that distinguishes this as the alleged epicentre of "terror, genocide, and the Holocaust".
There is NO empirical forensic evidence to support such a bold and extraordinary claim.

And extra-ordinary claims need extra-ordinary empirically verifiable evidence. Yet there is NONE.

But, ...oh yeah, ...there is a railway line going directly into the camp.
For otherwise intelligent, widely-read, well-informed individuals this is definitive PROOF of the alleged designed and excuted systematic mass-murder.

Image

Railway line as horror symbol:
Image
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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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This is the Jewish Virtual Library's article on the Birkenau Camp Kommandant who was allegedly in charge and responsible for the mass-murder of 100s of 1,000s of 'Jews' at Birkenau.
Friedrich “Fritz” Hartjenstein
(1905 - 1954)

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Friedrich "Fritz" Hartjenstein was an SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer (Lieutenant Colonel).

Born in Peine, near Braunschweig, he began concentration camp service at Sachsenhausen in 1938.
In 1939 he was transferred to Niedernhagen.
In 1941 he was assigned to the 3rd SS Division "Totenkopf," where he served for a year.
In 1942 he was appointed the commandant of Birkenau, the [alleged] death camp in Auschwitz.
He was [allegedly] responsible there for hundreds of thousands of gassings.
In 1944 he was transferred to Natzweiler concentration camp and appointed the commandant.
He was subsequently transferred to Flossenbuerg, serving as commandant.

Hartjenstein's postwar fate consisted of many trials.
First, he was arrested by the British and sentenced to life imprisonment on June 1, 1946, at Wuppertal for executing four resistance members.
Then he was again tried by the British for hanging a POW who was a member of the Royal Air Force and sentenced to death by firing squad on June 5 of that year.
He was then extradited to France, where he was tried for his crimes at Natzweiler and sentenced to death.
He [allegedly] died of a heart attack while awaiting execution on October 20, 1954.
He was kommandant at Birkenau from 22 November 1943 to May 1944. (Though the above article claims it was from 1942).
And yet after the war he was tried and convicted for:
- executing four resistance members,
- hanging a POW who was a member of the Royal Air Force,
- other unspecified crimes at Natzweiler camp.

Hmmmm?
So nobody at the time thought his THREE trials for executions of FOUR SOE agents and ONE PoW, and 'crimes' at the only camp on French soil were rather insignificant compared to the alleged GREATEST crime in known history that he was supposed to have been a key participant in, at the epicentre of the horror symbol of the genocide?! I.e. HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of executions?
:o
Curiouser and curiouser. (appropriate 'Alice in wonderland' reference)
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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theblackrabbitofinlé wrote:Image
been-there wrote:Image
Here we see children — some dressed by Soviet photographers in oversized striped prisonwear for propaganda purposes — photographed by Soviet forces at the war's end. Children who according to the currently enforced narrative should have been "gassed" upon arrival at Birkenau.
By July 1942, the SS were conducting 'selections' [at Auschwitz].
Incoming Jews were segregated; those deemed able to work
were sent to the right and admitted into the camp,
and those deemed unfit for labour
were sent to the left and immediately gassed
.
[Rees, Laurence (2005). Auschwitz: A New History. Pg.100]
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Birkenau: examining the currently accepted narrative

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been-there wrote:....... So is it 175 acres or 425 acres?
1.Was the "whole camp intended to be a death camp for gassing Jews"?
2. Or was it "intended" to be a camp for "PoWs"?
3. Or was it designed to be an "experimental farm" project?
4. Or was it "constructed (beginning in October 1941) to ease congestion at the main camp." as Wikipedia maintains?

Who knows? Whatever. We should only understand that it is only racist, hateful, anti-semite, neo-Nazis who would dare ask such a trivial question. :roll:
It must only be understood and accepted as "a symbol of terror, genocide, and the Holocaust."
If do some more research, you could find out the answers to your questions. Clearly there are different views on the size and role of the camp and it is perfectly possible to have a mature discussion about such and to ask questions. That you are unable to have such a conversation is because of your nasty manner, most recently shown by the way you posted on Alan Heath's site, is your problem.

It has become a symbol of genocide, terror and the Holocaust as the most famous site, which people can still visit and see it pretty much as it was.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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