Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

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Nessie
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by Nessie »

MrOlonzo wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:57 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm
MrOlonzo wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:29 pm
Huntinger wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:17 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:12 pm

Sticking to Sobibor, there are numerous witnesses, documents show mass transports to the camp and none show mass transports back out and there is physical evidence of a large area of cremains, personal items and a building where the gas chambers were described.
This is utter crap and constantly repeated. We have shown many times with evidence of people going elsewhere.
Nessie isnt interested in what you show him. Thats not the point here.
I do not bother with Huntinger due to his lying and ridiculous claims. He is lying that he has shown evidence of people going elsewhere. He must live a very sad and lonely life that he responds to pretty much everything I say and acts as if he is part of the debate. He should go and talk to people who want to talk to him.
Huntinger is a very important part of the debate.

But since we're on this, can you name who is part of the debate? Who is acceptable in your view?
I ignore Huntinger and Gerdes and their various obvious sock puppets.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by Nessie »

MrOlonzo wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:12 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:50 pm


It is your claim that there are no remains in anything like the numbers claimed. It is up to you to evidence it. Failure to evidence means you are just making up claims and that is lying.
Nope, its your claim that there are hundreds of thousands of murdered people there, its up to you to show that.
Correct. I am referring to your claim of;
MrOlonzo wrote:there are no remains in anything like the numbers claimed
It is up to you to evidence that claim. So, show me your evidence for Sobibor or I will call you out for lying.
Majdanek was an AR camp unlike Sobibor, Belzec and Chelmno. It was closer in function to A-B, where its primary role was as a labour camp, with buildings built for other purposes also used for homicidal gassings and a facility to process the personal possessions stolen from the dead.
Ah right, What do you think it meant when they wrote this letter;

"“By order of the Reichsführer SS and Chief of the German Police in coordination with the Reich Security Main Office, the following guidelines for the processing of deaths in the concentration camps are issued, superseding all prior
orders:

1.) Deaths of Jews and Jewesses are to be recorded merely in a collective list
(one copy), to include the following data:
Serial number,
Surname, given name, for women also maiden name,
Birth date and place,
Nationality,
Last place of residence,
Date of death,
Cause of death,
Detaining authority.
Where protective custody or preventive detention was ordered by Office IV C
or Office V of the Reich Security Main Office for Jews or Jewesses, the names
of such persons in these lists should be underlined in red, and the case number
of Office IV or V shown. The lists are to be ordered by date of death and are to
be submitted here by the 3rd day after the end of the reporting month.
Priority letters and termination reports will henceforward be unnecessary for
death cases of Jewish inmates.
2.) Announcements of deaths of all other prisoners are to be submitted in one
copy merely with the familiar form (priority letter) to the Reich Security Main
Office—Office IV C 2 and Office V—and to the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office–Office Group D. These forms are to be sent by regular mail to
the Reich Security Main Office or to this very agency, respectively.
In both cases covered by 1 and 2 above it is of no moment whether deaths occurred by natural or unnatural causes.
The instant notification by telex of the detaining authority for the purpose of
notifying the next of kin remains unaffected by this as required.
The current reporting procedures regarding deaths of Soviet prisoners of war
and Russian civilian workers remain unchanged.
The camp commandants are responsible to the Reichsführer SS and me personally that despite this relaxation of procedure, it may not be forgotten anywhere in the camps that even the lives of criminals must be accounted for.”


Why would they want such detail for Jewish deaths?
You would need to show the context to answer that. Bear in mind that the Nazis were not consistent and orders varied over time and camp.
Yes. There is evidence of mass arrivals, gassings and no evidence of mass departures.
Do you think they considered killing Jews a non-crime?
Yes, it was part of the Final Solution of the Jewish question and plan to rid occupied territory of the Jews.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

MrOlonzo
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by MrOlonzo »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:34 pm
MrOlonzo wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:12 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:50 pm


It is your claim that there are no remains in anything like the numbers claimed. It is up to you to evidence it. Failure to evidence means you are just making up claims and that is lying.
Nope, its your claim that there are hundreds of thousands of murdered people there, its up to you to show that.
Correct. I am referring to your claim of;
MrOlonzo wrote:there are no remains in anything like the numbers claimed
It is up to you to evidence that claim. So, show me your evidence for Sobibor or I will call you out for lying.
Majdanek was an AR camp unlike Sobibor, Belzec and Chelmno. It was closer in function to A-B, where its primary role was as a labour camp, with buildings built for other purposes also used for homicidal gassings and a facility to process the personal possessions stolen from the dead.
Ah right, What do you think it meant when they wrote this letter;

"“By order of the Reichsführer SS and Chief of the German Police in coordination with the Reich Security Main Office, the following guidelines for the processing of deaths in the concentration camps are issued, superseding all prior
orders:

1.) Deaths of Jews and Jewesses are to be recorded merely in a collective list
(one copy), to include the following data:
Serial number,
Surname, given name, for women also maiden name,
Birth date and place,
Nationality,
Last place of residence,
Date of death,
Cause of death,
Detaining authority.
Where protective custody or preventive detention was ordered by Office IV C
or Office V of the Reich Security Main Office for Jews or Jewesses, the names
of such persons in these lists should be underlined in red, and the case number
of Office IV or V shown. The lists are to be ordered by date of death and are to
be submitted here by the 3rd day after the end of the reporting month.
Priority letters and termination reports will henceforward be unnecessary for
death cases of Jewish inmates.
2.) Announcements of deaths of all other prisoners are to be submitted in one
copy merely with the familiar form (priority letter) to the Reich Security Main
Office—Office IV C 2 and Office V—and to the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office–Office Group D. These forms are to be sent by regular mail to
the Reich Security Main Office or to this very agency, respectively.
In both cases covered by 1 and 2 above it is of no moment whether deaths occurred by natural or unnatural causes.
The instant notification by telex of the detaining authority for the purpose of
notifying the next of kin remains unaffected by this as required.
The current reporting procedures regarding deaths of Soviet prisoners of war
and Russian civilian workers remain unchanged.
The camp commandants are responsible to the Reichsführer SS and me personally that despite this relaxation of procedure, it may not be forgotten anywhere in the camps that even the lives of criminals must be accounted for.”


Why would they want such detail for Jewish deaths?
You would need to show the context to answer that. Bear in mind that the Nazis were not consistent and orders varied over time and camp.
Yes. There is evidence of mass arrivals, gassings and no evidence of mass departures.
Do you think they considered killing Jews a non-crime?
Yes, it was part of the Final Solution of the Jewish question and plan to rid occupied territory of the Jews.
If you can evidence the amount of bodies found at any AR camp I'd be very interested.

In fact they considered killing or harming Jews in any way to be a crime or at least a military offense.


I will not be responding for a while here as I feel it necessary to further study the details of the entire holocaust and this is a huge subject.

Be well, speak to you soon.

MrOlonzo
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by MrOlonzo »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:29 pm
MrOlonzo wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:57 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:53 pm
MrOlonzo wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:29 pm
Huntinger wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:17 pm

This is utter crap and constantly repeated. We have shown many times with evidence of people going elsewhere.
Nessie isnt interested in what you show him. Thats not the point here.
I do not bother with Huntinger due to his lying and ridiculous claims. He is lying that he has shown evidence of people going elsewhere. He must live a very sad and lonely life that he responds to pretty much everything I say and acts as if he is part of the debate. He should go and talk to people who want to talk to him.
Huntinger is a very important part of the debate.

But since we're on this, can you name who is part of the debate? Who is acceptable in your view?
I ignore Huntinger and Gerdes and their various obvious sock puppets.
You clearly do not ignore Huntinger. Various people here detest you as you detest them. That's ok. I think you're just a partisan with a cause, which again is ok.

But for now I will not be responding for a while here as I feel it necessary to further study the details of the entire holocaust and this is a huge subject. It does neither of us a service if im not well enough acquainted with the details.

Be well, speak to you soon.

Turnagain
Posts: 9013
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie isn't here to debate in good faith, MrAlonzo. He lies quite readily whenever he deems it expedient. For example, Chil Rajchman, an eyewitness to the alleged gas chambers declared that the Germans pumped the air out of the gas chamber and pumped the exhaust from an IC engine into it in order to kill the Jews. He stated that on one occasion the Germans pumped the air out of the chamber and left the Jews inside for 48 hours as an experiment. When they opened the gas chamber they found that a few Jews showed "signs of life".

None of that is possible and it's clearly a lie. Nessie simply claims that the experiment was a failure. There are numerous witnesses that claim that the gas/vacuum chambers were hermetically sealed. That is another impossibility considering that the pressure differential would collapse the building from either the vacuum or from the exhaust volume of the engine. Nessie claims that the witnesses just made a little "mistake" or didn't understand the ventilation system of the Germans. Whenever witness statements don't agree with reality, Nessie simply fantasizes an alternate reality to what is claimed by the eyewitnesses.

Of course he then claims that it's up to the revisionists to prove that the Jews weren't gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque as claimed. What he claims as "evidence" is simply demonstrable lies and fantasies. He is NOT here to seek the truth.

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Nessie
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by Nessie »

MrOlonzo wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:00 am
....

If you can evidence the amount of bodies found at any AR camp I'd be very interested.

In fact they considered killing or harming Jews in any way to be a crime or at least a military offense.


I will not be responding for a while here as I feel it necessary to further study the details of the entire holocaust and this is a huge subject.

Be well, speak to you soon.
Very few corpses were found. Instead, large areas of cremated remains have been located. At TII it is over 2 hectares and up to 7m deep. At Belzec it is c21,000m3. I do not have the figures for Sobibor and Chelmno.

Who considered killing Jews a crime?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by Nessie »

MrOlonzo wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:09 am
....

You clearly do not ignore Huntinger.
I did recently take Huntinger off ignore as he had been quoted by others and I wanted to respond. Since then, he has been making increasingly bizarre claims and I have caught him not telling the truth.
Various people here detest you as you detest them. That's ok. I think you're just a partisan with a cause, which again is ok.

But for now I will not be responding for a while here as I feel it necessary to further study the details of the entire holocaust and this is a huge subject. It does neither of us a service if im not well enough acquainted with the details.

Be well, speak to you soon.
OK. Happy reading.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 30137
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:08 pm
Nessie isn't here to debate in good faith, MrAlonzo. He lies quite readily whenever he deems it expedient. For example, Chil Rajchman, an eyewitness to the alleged gas chambers declared that the Germans pumped the air out of the gas chamber and pumped the exhaust from an IC engine into it in order to kill the Jews. He stated that on one occasion the Germans pumped the air out of the chamber and left the Jews inside for 48 hours as an experiment. When they opened the gas chamber they found that a few Jews showed "signs of life".

None of that is possible and it's clearly a lie. Nessie simply claims that the experiment was a failure.
The experiment was a failure, so no lies there.
There are numerous witnesses that claim that the gas/vacuum chambers were hermetically sealed. That is another impossibility considering that the pressure differential would collapse the building from either the vacuum or from the exhaust volume of the engine.
Rubbish, the engine would stall or a pipe would rupture long before the building would collapse and in any case, you are assuming that nothing was done to stop pressure increases.
Nessie claims that the witnesses just made a little "mistake" or didn't understand the ventilation system of the Germans. Whenever witness statements don't agree with reality, Nessie simply fantasizes an alternate reality to what is claimed by the eyewitnesses.
No, I look to see if there is a reasonable explanation. You are the one who presented hearsay evidence dishonestly as if it was eye witness evidence.
Of course he then claims that it's up to the revisionists to prove that the Jews weren't gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque as claimed.
Which it is, since the burden of proof for your claim is on you.
What he claims as "evidence" is simply demonstrable lies and fantasies. He is NOT here to seek the truth.
Not true. I look at all of the evidence and what is not evidenced and then follow what is evidenced. You cherry pick some evidence and then interpret some of it in a way to make it appear gassings etc were impossible. You then demand we believe what you cannot evidence happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Yoram Haimi claims to have found Sobibor gas chambers

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:08 pm

Of course he then claims that it's up to the revisionists to prove that the Jews weren't gassed, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque as claimed. What he claims as "evidence" is simply demonstrable lies and fantasies. He is NOT here to seek the truth.
Of course his stance is to claim any absurdity and then demand evidence it could not occur. Basically no one cares if Mohammed flew on Buraq, Jesus walked on water or Jüdische blood was flammable. There is no end to absurdities, all religion including this holy hoax are full of them.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
Amt IV

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