Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

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blake121666
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Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by blake121666 »

I'm sure you've all seen Cole's latest posting about AR. In that Cole says
David Cole wrote:I’ll add that just two months after getting the final Korherr Report, Himmler ordered the Ostland ghettos permanently closed, with any Jews capable of work being sent to camps, and the remainder being “evacuated to the East.” Uh, this is the fucking Ostland. There IS no “east.” This is as far east as Nazi territory went. What more proof is needed that, in this instance, “evacuated to the East” is a euphemism?
Where is this Himmler order? There of course was an east to the Ostland at this point in the war. I don't know why Cole says there wasn't. But in this instance, how is one to interpret "evacuated to the east". Since we're talking about Jews incapable of working, they might have been thought incapable of being a military threat and might have just been plopped somewhere in the east to fend for themselves. In other words, are we to accept that here is a clear example of "evacuated to the east" meaning "killed"?

The scions of these people could very well be the psychopathic baby-killers we see in Israel today? Cole cheers them on while shooting vodka with Joan Rivers and Howard Stern: "I'm with you Smelly Weasel! Quit making us kill your babies! Nile to the Euphrates! Woohoo!"

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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by Lewishjiars »

blake121666 wrote:I'm sure you've all seen Cole's latest posting about AR. In that Cole says
David Cole wrote:I’ll add that just two months after getting the final Korherr Report, Himmler ordered the Ostland ghettos permanently closed, with any Jews capable of work being sent to camps, and the remainder being “evacuated to the East.” Uh, this is the fucking Ostland. There IS no “east.” This is as far east as Nazi territory went. What more proof is needed that, in this instance, “evacuated to the East” is a euphemism?
Where is this Himmler order? There of course was an east to the Ostland at this point in the war. I don't know why Cole says there wasn't. But in this instance, how is one to interpret "evacuated to the east". Since we're talking about Jews incapable of working, they might have been thought incapable of being a military threat and might have just been plopped somewhere in the east to fend for themselves. In other words, are we to accept that here is a clear example of "evacuated to the east" meaning "killed"?

The scions of these people could very well be the psychopathic baby-killers we see in Israel today? Cole cheers them on while shooting vodka with Joan Rivers and Howard Stern: "I'm with you Smelly Weasel! Quit making us kill your babies! Nile to the Euphrates! Woohoo!"
David Cole was the most "trustworthy" jew on earth until a month ago. Was he ever really trustworthy, or was he a zionist infiltrator, like the israeli scum who have created ISIS?

The saga of Cole is an eternal, cautionary tale for people of truth, everywhere. We were warned about "decent" jews before, but some of us don't learn.

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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by blake121666 »

According to Carolyn Yeager's post at:

http://carolynyeager.net/korherr-report

The Himmler order is:

http://www.ns-archiv.de/verfolgung/korh ... r-sipo.php

Can someone translate this for me? Google translate isn't very good for this one.

EDIT: Or is this the order? Doesn't appear to be. Cole says an order 2 months after the Korherr report; this one is 2 weeks after. Does anyone know where Himmler's order to evacuate the Ostland Jews is?

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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by Scott »

I may be wrong but I'm a little disappointed at some of the hullabaloo directed at David Cole. Certainly he should not be calling other people mentally ill names--and as a self-proclaimed "severe alcoholic" he should know better.

The Toben "committee" review of Mr. Cole's book is okay, I guess, but then we were never expecting a work of historical Revisionism here, were we? Seriously. WTF?

Mr. Cole was honest to a fault that he was telling HIS story, and it is a damn entertaining read. I was not disappointed. I wasn't expecting the Magnum Opus of Holocaust Revisionist historiography--which has yet to be written for sure. I figured that Republican Party Animal would be all "Jewey" and all full of irony and angst, yada yada. And as far as I'm concerned Mr. Cole's book was well worth the price of admission.

Sure, Mr. Cole may still have some disappointing views on the Big-H, a position similar to David Irving's, and I may think that is wrong, but so what? Big deal.

The WORST damage--in my humble opinion--that can ever be done to RevisionismTM is to create a sort of Orthodoxy to replace an Orthodoxy.

The first rule of historiography is that historians disagree. If Revisionists (large-R) are true to their craft, then they will accept this cardinal maxim too and understand that not all Revisionists will necessarily agree.

Some will be better than others at "revising history according to the facts," to paraphrase the great Progressive/Isolationist Prof. Harry Elmer Barnes. A scientific method for History means to revise it in a never-ending feedback loop; it is absolutely not a catalog of canonical truths kept by some intellectual priesthood. Revisionism isn't a "movement" the way that I see it.

Mr. Toben and some others may disagree and see only some sort of fight against the Joos--that either does or does not pass muster. Well, that is not historiography. That is not historical revisionism (small-r). That is not "bringing history into accord with the facts." That approach is one of propaganda only. That approach will FAIL scientifically, just as Hollywood hoaxing will fail (ultimately) where it ultimately counts. (Pseudo-scientists like Ms. Sturdy-Colls would do well to learn this lesson as well.)

The greatest crime for any Revisionist, is to aspire to be the last word on the subject. There is no "Pope" of Revisionism, nor should there be. To me that is the only important methodological point.

Mr. Cole might have some differing views on the Big-H and its revision. Big freaking deal.

I hope that David Cole will do us the justice of clarifying his views and debate Eric Hunt or Fritz Berg or whomever--and that is where the subject can move forward. Baby steps, yes. That is how it is done.

That is the way that real historiography works, and those who will not engage their intellectual opponents are not making a full scientific contribution. Real Science is not about an echo-chamber of Faith--and those who would try to make a religion or a doctrine out of History are less historians than charlatans. Leave the Doctrine and the Hoaxing to the Lipstadts and to the Wiesels, etc.

Again, the absolute worst mistake that Revisionists can make is to dismiss the "unorthodox" without ado. That is why it is useful to debate each other and our opponents, even those whose views we are unlikely to change with any meritorious arguments. In a free environment of debate and scholarship, the intellectually curious can make up their own minds. And they will. That is why it is necessary to strongarm Revisionists or anyone else whose views on the Big-H are not sufficiently Kosher. So let's leave the vileness to the Hoaxsters.

Mr. Cole can attest to that kind of coercion and so can Mr. Hunt, as can many others who have been beaten or jailed for having the wrong views regarding recent history. I don't think I can emphasize this point more strongly. The Truth is something that honest people aspire towards but will never fully attain. And Lies don't become the Truth with any army of Good Guy enforcers or budgetary endowment.

To ritually condemn David Cole because he does not have sufficiently "Revisionist" views is just as vile as the Hoaxsters, who ritually condemn those whose views are not sufficiently Holocausty.

The second worst mistake, in my view, for Revisionists to make is to conflate a mission of intellectual curiosity and historical adventure with "fighting the Joos." That is probably what Mr. Toben and many like him see as crucial--so let's continue to botch the historical and scientific investigation of the matter, shall we? Nuff said.

I never said that it was easy. One side has more money and slicker propaganda, and they don't play fair--but fat coffers, coercion and violence does NOT manufacture the truth. It doesn't make the Sun revolve around the Earth. Propaganda that revolves around lies will fail. It will inevitably fail. I didn't say it would not do damage to good people along the way.

So the Truth is a not a "movement" and it is not an absolute in any case. It is about intellectual curiosity and about honesty. So simple and yet so hard. It is not about "fighting the Joos" nor finding "decent" Joos. That is some other issue besides real historiography. So leave the "unreal" for the Popes and the Hoaxsters--and for anybody else whose Messiah walks on water. Pay your $1 and move right along. The big kids are nonplussed by the big infidels.

;)
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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

Excellent post Scott.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by blake121666 »

So do you agree that "evacuation to the east" meant killing in this instance Scott? I think it is important to come up with one instance of "evacuation to the east" being agreed to mean killing. Without my getting a good handle on the particular Himmler order and the circumstances surrounding it, I'm not inclined at this point to say "evacuation to the east" meant killing in this instance. Either way, it is good of Cole to bring up this particular order since if we are to agree that it did indeed mean killing, then we have to allow for "code words" in NSDAP documents (which I tend to avoid doing) and if we are to disagree with this assessment then we have an instance of Germans sending Jews to fend for themselves (which is the only one I can think of - certainly at this relatively early point in the war).

Either way, the details don't seem to be there. The AR camp extermination narrative is grossly wrong just on logistical grounds. Tossing Jews willy nilly to what is to become the enemy side seems a little silly as well. How many Jews were involved here? Not the 2.5 million Cole goes on about.

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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by Scott »

Thanks, BRoI.
Blake wrote: So do you agree that "evacuation to the east" meant killing in this instance Scott?
No, I don't agree with this thesis.

If we want to find out what if anything happened to the Jews we will have to investigate concrete demographic issues. At this point we don't even know who is supposed to be missing. If the Mormons can do family trees on everybody I don't see why it can't be done for "Survivors."

So to me the idea of people just going poof down a demographic Black Hole of "Reinhardt" is absurd and not supported by anything besides mythology and anti-German propaganda. Nobody tells better lies than the Victors. I don't think the numbers transited through these "camps" either.

What did happen, I don't know. But automatic Greuelpropaganda, I don't think so. I do think there is plenty of evidence to show that Rube Goldberg gassings of anybody by the Nazis are fantasy theater.

If we are going to rely on Tarnsprache (unique Nazi Evil codewords) for the proof, then that is not only methodologically flawed--metaphysics rather than science--but there is literally no logical limit to the nonsense that can and will therefore be regarded as truth and fact. It is tautology without borders. It is like specifying that X=0 and Y=infinity and the working out of the mathematical euphemisms to suit the Faith.

I, Scott Smith, don't know how many Jews were killed by the Nazis--or who otherwise had a tough time of it during a very brutal war. It may be as high as five-million (Hilberg) or as low as a million (Graf) and I have less expertise on the subject than either of them.

But we've been dividing by zero and multiplying by infinity for FAR too long. We can and must do better if these questions are really so important. The idea that the Big-H has become a secular religion for our modern times is a very disturbing course of events for me.

More people need to be asking difficult, and perhaps unwelcome, questions--and the "experts" so far have shown precious little in the way of critically examining this stuff in its essentials. This state of affairs would simply not be tolerated for any other academic discipline.

Mr. Cole handily made that point in his book when he noted that he had found or could even sell gas-van footage to the keepers of the Holo-flame, and even when they themselves secretly thought (or actually knew) that it was faked--so Mr. Cole gets a Big Infidel pat on the back from me for such insights and "capers" (for what it's worth). Thank you for that, David.

Toben--the Cole reviewer who has his fingerprints all over the half-assing or even the outright botching of the (otherwise strongly promising) Krege Ground Penetrating Radar "report" that never was--not so much. Physician heal thyself. Nuff said.

;)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by been-there »

I agree. Excellent post. Especially liked this paraphrasing of Elmer Barnes:
"A scientific method for History means to revise it in a never-ending feedback loop; it is absolutely not a catalog of canonical truths kept by some intellectual priesthood. Revisionism isn't a "movement" the way that I see it."
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by Scott »

Thanks

:D

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
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Re: Cole (Again) on Treblinka and the "Reinhardt" Camps

Post by blake121666 »

I just read a quote from Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's "Two Hundred Years Together" that struck me as apropos David Cole's writing of late. In 1919 Vladimir Korolenko wrote in his diary:
There are many Jews and Jewesses among the Bolsheviks. Their main characteristics - self-righteousness, aggressive tactlessness and presumptive arrogance - are painfully evident. Bolshevism is found contemptible in the Ukraine. The preponderance of Jewish physiognomies, especially in the Cheka, evokes an extremely virulent hatred of Jews among the people.
Couldn't help but think of David Cole when reading this. The obnoxious drunk is probably descended from Ukrainian Jews! He probably plotted out mass-starvation plans on large areas of the US in his "Republican Part Animals" group - while hating "nazis" and supporting his tribe's ethnic cleansing in Israel. Such is the oppression Jews have to endure.

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