Bergs bogus challenges?

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25562
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:34 pm

Scott wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Scott wrote: .......
I said that lead solder was banned in Europe. I did not give a specific reason.
..........
Yes you did; "For example, lead electronic solder is apparently banned now in Europe--which is a very curious example of nanny-statism because there is no lead exposure in solder smoke. The smoke that you see from a hobbyist's workbench is caused from the rosin-cored flux burning, and the only way to imbibe any lead from that is to actually chew on the strips of solder."

So you said that you think lead is banned in Europe because the EU had it that there is lead in solder smoke, when in fact it is the flux burning off. You were very specific in that.
I never said that this ubiquitous and erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous was their sole motivation for the do-gooders' ban, just a stupid one.

.....
Please evidence your claim that the EU had the "erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous".
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Friedrich Paul Berg
Posts: 3110
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:21 am
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Friedrich Paul Berg » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:02 am

Nessie discovered that cyanide victims are sometimes described as "purple" and is trying to make the most of it. But that does not help the hoax either because NONE of the self-described "eyewitnesses" of Nazi gassing victims ever claimed they saw "purple" corpses. The holocaust-true-believers fail again.

Friedrich Paul Berg

Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com

User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2122
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Scott » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:27 am

Nessie wrote:
Scott wrote:
Nessie wrote:
Scott wrote: .......
I said that lead solder was banned in Europe. I did not give a specific reason.
..........
Yes you did; "For example, lead electronic solder is apparently banned now in Europe--which is a very curious example of nanny-statism because there is no lead exposure in solder smoke. The smoke that you see from a hobbyist's workbench is caused from the rosin-cored flux burning, and the only way to imbibe any lead from that is to actually chew on the strips of solder."

So you said that you think lead is banned in Europe because the EU had it that there is lead in solder smoke, when in fact it is the flux burning off. You were very specific in that.
I never said that this ubiquitous and erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous was their sole motivation for the do-gooders' ban, just a stupid one.

.....
Please evidence your claim that the EU had the "erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous".
Anybody who has ever used electronic solder at a workbench sees the smoke and smells the smoke.

"Seeing the Elephant" scares the crap out of people who have never worked with materials in their whole lives. Their jobs are to vigorously make useless laws apparently. These are people I call Nanny-State Morons, and that is putting it charitably. They have little real intelligence or applicable knowledge so their legislative, judicial, and executive decisions are based on what interest-groups campaign for. Sometimes the logic is (at best) absurdly reductionist.

The fact that lead is a poisonous heavy metal means that neophytes are afraid of it, which means that everyone thinks it behaves like a radioactive snake in the grass. Nanny-Staters basically think that you can legislate danger out of the hands of the public.

The gist of the matter is that the people who banned lead solder really don't know the difference between soldering for electrical work and soldering pipes for drinking water. Seriously, what part of this is so hard to understand?

Even the people who work with the stuff--and who should know better--sometimes talk bullshit about it.

In other words, these geniuses missed some basic reasoning. They know that lead is dangerous; ergo "solder smoke" is dangerous. You see, the rosin smoke is the ubiquitous or the salient feature of electrical soldering. And this is very "nose on the face" basic, so if you don't understand this, check it out.

Some helpful advice: Mr. Google is your friend.

However, some people are allergic to the fumes from the burning of the rosin flux used in electronic soldering, and it might bother one's asthma. That is another aspect of industrial medicine that one could consider.

But electrical soldering does not involve lead fumes, a common misconception.

The legislators or whatever gurus who banned "lead solder" know about as much about bench work with solder as the Pope knows about indoor plumbing, or a bear knows about Roman Rite sacraments.

In other words, they might as well be banning kryptonite--which is my whole point. They know about as much about lead solder as they do about gleaming slabs of Kryptonite beaming their deadly green rays from the Planet Krypton.

So if you would like to learn a little about soldering, You-Tube is also your friend. Some of the teachers on YT videos are better (or less stupid) than others, but there is a lot of stuff available.

In addition, please note that in non-Crown countries the word "solder" is pronounced like Sodder. It is not SoLder. But then you can't get Vegemite here either because our byproducts from industrial brewing go for cattle feed so it might be a deficiency of our diet. But then, who really knows if the truth is lurking in either the Æther or in the Ether?

So here is a 20 minute Part-1 training video on electronic soldering from 1980 that is pretty decent but it is about twice too long. It is for slow industrial learners, back in the days before all things were made in Third World countries. However, if it were done today, Part-1 would have to be done in ten parts and it would have to be in either Rap or comic book format.
And Nessie, in all seriousness--if you watch nothing else, this basic tutorial below is just under five minutes long. Do watch this one if nothing else!
Some of the Comments for this one are interesting (with quite correct replies) on the subject of lead solder:
Phillip Michaels
1 month ago


you really should use the lead free solder so you don't get lead poisoning 

Michael Nagtalon
1 month ago


You have more of a chance of intentionally ingesting lead from soldering than from the fumes. The flux is more hazardous. Besides lead free solder creates more problems than it solves. Hope this helps.

randacnam7321
3 weeks ago


Lead has a very low vapor pressure, and rosin flux is only a problem with chronic exposure. With can cause asthma. Lead free fluxes are substantially nastier as lead free solders have inferior wetting characteristics and thus need much more aggressive fluxes. Lead free solders also have the problem of requiring mutually compatible solder alloys, component lead finishes and board finishes (if components are PCB mounted). Otherwise, brittle inter-metallic alloys that form in the joint can cause joint failure and/or galvanic corrosion will be a problem. Then there is the problem of lead free joints being more fragile. And the much higher temperatures needed for lead free solder are more likely to kill parts and boards.

There are many reasons why military, aerospace/avionics, industrial control systems, medical equipment, core telecommunications infrastructure and hi rel [high reliability] stuff in general is specifically exempt from all this lead free nonsense.
Bravo! At least some of the above Commenters do know the craft and what they are talking about.

Too bad the same cannot be said for so many lawmakers. They don't know the difference between lead-soldered plumbing and lead-soldered electrical wires. One involves poisonous lead leaching into drinking water and the other involves mildly-irritating rosin smoke used as the flux in electrical soldering.

;)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25562
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:54 pm

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:Nessie discovered that cyanide victims are sometimes described as "purple" and is trying to make the most of it. But that does not help the hoax either because NONE of the self-described "eyewitnesses" of Nazi gassing victims ever claimed they saw "purple" corpses. The holocaust-true-believers fail again.
......
I mentioned it once having found one reference and you claim that is me trying to make the most of it :lol: Using non Holocaust related sources please answer the following;

What is the minimum time taken for lividity to appear in human remains?
What percentage of people (if any) show signs of a pink/ruddy/sunburned skin tone from CO poisoning before death?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25562
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:01 pm

Scott, your response to my question "Please evidence your claim that the EU had the "erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous". is.......
Scott wrote: ......
Anybody who has ever used electronic solder at a workbench sees the smoke and smells the smoke.

"Seeing the Elephant" scares the crap out of people who have never worked with materials in their whole lives.

<snip>

Too bad the same cannot be said for so many lawmakers. They don't know the difference between lead-soldered plumbing and lead-soldered electrical wires. One involves poisonous lead leaching into drinking water and the other involves mildly-irritating rosin smoke used as the flux in electrical soldering.

;)
.....a discourse on how to solder (which I know how to do and have all the kit to do basic stuff), no mention of the EU and unevidenced slagging off of those who have made rules over lead in solder. So again, I ask you "Please evidence your claim that the EU had the "erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous".
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2122
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Scott » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:47 pm

Nessie wrote: Scott, your response to my question "Please evidence your claim that the EU had the "erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous". is.......
Scott wrote: ......
Anybody who has ever used electronic solder at a workbench sees the smoke and smells the smoke.

"Seeing the Elephant" scares the crap out of people who have never worked with materials in their whole lives.

<snip>

Too bad the same cannot be said for so many lawmakers. They don't know the difference between lead-soldered plumbing and lead-soldered electrical wires. One involves poisonous lead leaching into drinking water and the other involves mildly-irritating rosin smoke used as the flux in electrical soldering.

;)
.....a discourse on how to solder (which I know how to do and have all the kit to do basic stuff), no mention of the EU and unevidenced slagging off of those who have made rules over lead in solder. So again, I ask you "Please evidence your claim that the EU had the "erroneous impression of lead solder smoke being dangerous".
Nessie, do you know what a straw-man argument is? Please read what I wrote.

In giving you multiple examples of Industrial Medicine, I said:
Nessie wrote:
Scott wrote: For example, lead electronic solder is apparently banned now in Europe--which is a very curious example of nanny-statism because there is no lead exposure in solder smoke. The smoke that you see from a hobbyist's workbench is caused from the rosin-cored flux burning, and the only way to imbibe any lead from that is to actually chew on the strips of solder.

:)
Can you evidence the ban was due to "lead exposure in solder smoke"?

Or could it be something else?
You mean could it be something else like lead being poisonous?

I evidenced the claim that I made about solder smoke not containing lead fumes and that one needs to chew on the strips of solder to imbibe the lead in lead solder--just like one needs to chew lead paint chips. Yes/No/Maybe?

What the stupidities of legislatures and the EU--or whatever august body it was that banned lead solder in the People's Republic of Europe, I can only imagine, as I said that I didn't precisely know.

The bottom line is that they banned lead solder. Yes/No/Maybe?

And apparently they think that they are protecting people from lead fumes. That is my take on it because they haven't accomplished anything else besides this window dressing. Yes/No/Maybe?

And the problem there is that there aren't lead fumes in the smoke of solder. What you see is from the burning of the rosin flux in the core of electronic solder, as I've already explained. Yes/No/Maybe?

Don't play stupid, Nessie.

;)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

User avatar
blake121666
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:26 am
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by blake121666 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:22 am

Scott, you missed the original contention of Nessie quoting some source that said something along the lines of "Even though it's known solder fumes don't contain lead, the EU doesn't want the discarded electronics soldered with lead in the garbage" or something to that effect. BTW, I myself would never use lead solder for electronics. I'd use it for mechanical things but not electronics of course. But both of you please drop this particularly uninteresting back and forth about lead solder.

User avatar
Scott
Site Admin
Posts: 2122
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 2:43 am
Location: USA, West of the Pecos
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Scott » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:39 am

Okay, so the EU bans lead and then they don't get any more bad press for shipping their scrap electronics to Red China... Okay, no problem. Sorry about the diversion.

The ghost town of Picher, Oklahoma (ca. 1913-2013) which mined most of the lead used in World Wars I and II is now considered the most toxic town in America because of the heaps of contaminated mine tailings.

In any case, I do my part to recycle but I'll continue using the 60/40 rosin-cored solder.

:)

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8001
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by been-there » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:25 am

blake121666 wrote:But both of you please drop this particularly uninteresting back and forth about lead solder.
Agreed. Here is yet another thread succesfully derailed by the 'Hasbara' exterminationalist trolls.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 25562
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:11 pm

Post edited.

Scott you have no evidence to back up you claims that people appear cherry red or even sunburnt or pink after a short and lethal exposure to CO. Just as you have no evidence to back up your claim about the EU banning lead in solder because of the smoke from the flux.

Berg, you have run away from answering my questions about the time it takes for lividity to appear and the effects of moving a body and putting pressure on the skin.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests