Bergs bogus challenges?

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
Depth Check
Site Moderator
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:49 am
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Depth Check » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:29 pm

Turnagain, unless you begin formatting your posts in a more user friendly manner I will delete your account!

Turnagain
Posts: 5961
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Turnagain » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:00 pm

Nessie wrote:
Turnagain wrote:
Nessie wrote:I am saying that Berg's cherry red argument can be explained by the time it takes to appear compared to the time it took to bury or cremate the bodies.
I am saying that even trained medics get advice on what to look for to try and diagnose CO poisoning. I am saying that descriptions of symptoms of CO poisoning do not mention skin tone. So from that I am concluding it is not obvious in those who have just died. That is why it is not remarked upon. A minor increase in the skin tone's pinkness is nothing compared to the colours it will go as lividity and decomposition set it.
So, you're back to claiming that the symptomatic red/pink discoloration of CO poisoning cannot appear ante mortem. I see that you're also conflating the diagnosis of non-fatal CO poisoning with fatal CO poisoning. Nice weasel dodge, Nessie. One can expect no less from a hoaxer. Again, how do you know that the cadavers were removed from the gas chambers and either burnt or buried before anyone could notice that they had turned red? Why would the eeevil Germans give a fat rat's patootie if someone saw a dead Jew turning red?
As for cremating newly dead the exhumed and the heat, I do not know the answers.
The answer is obvious, Nessie. The 'death camps' story is a load of bullshit. It didn't happen because it couldn't happen.

Berg says that the victims of fatal CO poisoning turn bright red or pink. He shows an example. Are you saying that Berg's thesis that fatal CO poisoning causes a characteristic red/pink discoloration of the corpse is false? Are you claiming that all the cadavers were disposed of either by cremation or burial before any noticeable red/pink discoloration developed? If so, how do you know that? Are you saying that of the ~ 2,000,000 cadavers killed with CO none developed noticeable red/pink discoloration ante mortem? The question remains, Nessie, of ALL the eyewitnesses who claimed that the cadavers were discolored by the poison gas, none said that the cadavers were red/pink? Why was that?
The answers to the questions are in the post you quoted, which I have re quoted above. You have clearly not bothered to read it.
Turnagain wrote:
(More later)

........
Hopefully the "more later" will include responding to my other points, which you also appear not have bothered reading.

User avatar
Depth Check
Site Moderator
Posts: 989
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:49 am
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Depth Check » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:52 pm

Goodbye Turnagain.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 26798
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:17 pm

Turnagain wrote:.....

So, you're back to claiming that the symptomatic red/pink discoloration of CO poisoning cannot appear ante mortem. I see that you're also conflating the diagnosis of non-fatal CO poisoning with fatal CO poisoning. Nice weasel dodge, Nessie. One can expect no less from a hoaxer. Again, how do you know that the cadavers were removed from the gas chambers and either burnt or buried before anyone could notice that they had turned red? Why would the eeevil Germans give a fat rat's patootie if someone saw a dead Jew turning red?

.....

The answer is obvious, Nessie. The 'death camps' story is a load of bullshit. It didn't happen because it couldn't happen.

Berg says that the victims of fatal CO poisoning turn bright red or pink. He shows an example. Are you saying that Berg's thesis that fatal CO poisoning causes a characteristic red/pink discoloration of the corpse is false? Are you claiming that all the cadavers were disposed of either by cremation or burial before any noticeable red/pink discoloration developed? If so, how do you know that? Are you saying that of the ~ 2,000,000 cadavers killed with CO none developed noticeable red/pink discoloration ante mortem? The question remains, Nessie, of ALL the eyewitnesses who claimed that the cadavers were discolored by the poison gas, none said that the cadavers were red/pink? Why was that?
To the continual reliance on fallacies, I am going to add lying about what I have actually said.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

rollo the ganger
Posts: 6207
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:34 am
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by rollo the ganger » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:36 pm

Depth Check wrote:Turnagain, unless you begin formatting your posts in a more user friendly manner I will delete your account!
Goodbye Turnagain.
Sounds serious! Forgive me but I don't see the serious infraction here. Please explain DC. What am I missing?

Turnagain
Posts: 5961
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Turnagain » Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:22 pm

Nessie wrote:
Turnagain wrote:.....

So, you're back to claiming that the symptomatic red/pink discoloration of CO poisoning cannot appear ante mortem. I see that you're also conflating the diagnosis of non-fatal CO poisoning with fatal CO poisoning. Nice weasel dodge, Nessie. One can expect no less from a hoaxer. Again, how do you know that the cadavers were removed from the gas chambers and either burnt or buried before anyone could notice that they had turned red? Why would the eeevil Germans give a fat rat's patootie if someone saw a dead Jew turning red?

.....

The answer is obvious, Nessie. The 'death camps' story is a load of bullshit. It didn't happen because it couldn't happen.

Berg says that the victims of fatal CO poisoning turn bright red or pink. He shows an example. Are you saying that Berg's thesis that fatal CO poisoning causes a characteristic red/pink discoloration of the corpse is false? Are you claiming that all the cadavers were disposed of either by cremation or burial before any noticeable red/pink discoloration developed? If so, how do you know that? Are you saying that of the ~ 2,000,000 cadavers killed with CO none developed noticeable red/pink discoloration ante mortem? The question remains, Nessie, of ALL the eyewitnesses who claimed that the cadavers were discolored by the poison gas, none said that the cadavers were red/pink? Why was that?
To the continual reliance on fallacies, I am going to add lying about what I have actually said.
I asked you if the characteristic red/pink discoloration could appear ante mortem. You said "yes." Then, in your following post you claim that no red/pink discoloration appears for at least 20 minutes. Perhaps I'm confused but which is it, Nessie? Can discoloration appear before death or not? Why is asking you a question a "fallacy?" How do you know that all the cadavers were disposed of before the red/pink discoloration of CO poisoning appeared? Why would the Germans give a damn if somebody noticed that the dead Jews were turning red? Eyewitnesses claimed that the poison gas caused the victims to turn many different colors. For example, Wiernik said that the cadavers turned yellow. Did they turn yellow before they turned red? Is that question a fallacy of some kind, Nessie.

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 26798
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:40 pm

Turnagain wrote:......

I asked you if the characteristic red/pink discoloration could appear ante mortem. You said "yes." Then, in your following post you claim that no red/pink discoloration appears for at least 20 minutes. Perhaps I'm confused but which is it, Nessie? Can discoloration appear before death or not? Why is asking you a question a "fallacy?" How do you know that all the cadavers were disposed of before the red/pink discoloration of CO poisoning appeared? Why would the Germans give a damn if somebody noticed that the dead Jews were turning red? Eyewitnesses claimed that the poison gas caused the victims to turn many different colors. For example, Wiernik said that the cadavers turned yellow. Did they turn yellow before they turned red? Is that question a fallacy of some kind, Nessie.
The evidence states that some people can look sun burned or ruddy prior to death. However, none of the sites such as the NHS and CDC I have linked to, nor anywhere else for that matter that I can find, has skin tone being red as a sign of CO poisoning. Here are the links again

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Carbon-mon ... ptoms.aspx

http://www.cdc.gov/co/faqs.htm

and another for good measure

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advic ... noxide.htm

So no mention of skin tone and various references to how difficult it is to diagnose as symptoms mimic others, so I am saying the skin showing sunburn like is rare and hard to spot, beyond being see as someone who had sunburn.

The discolouration that Berg references comes after death, his cherry red. It takes at least 20 minutes and up to three hours to even start to appear and is not at its full extent for 6 to 12 hours after death. That is why I am saying no one noticed cherry red as by then bodies had been buried or burned, as per what eye witnesses state. They were not given much time to do their work as so many were being killed at a time.

As for other colours mentioned, my suggestion would be find a pathologist and as them. Or do some research yourself. I will also look for reasons why myself.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
Posts: 5961
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Turnagain » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:19 pm

I see that you're back to the usual hoaxer weasel dodge of citing links to non-fatal examples of CO poisoning. Scott has already posted photos of non livor mortis caused red/pink discoloration of cadavers so I won't bother duplicating his efforts. At any rate, what proof do you have that all ~ 2,000,000 people who were murdered with CO were disposed of either by burning or burying in 20 minutes or less? Explain, too, why the Germans would give a fat rat's patootie if someone noticed that the dead Jews were turning red? Why would that concern them?

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 26798
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Nessie » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:31 pm

Turnagain wrote:I see that you're back to the usual hoaxer weasel dodge of citing links to non-fatal examples of CO poisoning. Scott has already posted photos of non livor mortis caused red/pink discoloration of cadavers so I won't bother duplicating his efforts. At any rate, what proof do you have that all ~ 2,000,000 people who were murdered with CO were disposed of either by burning or burying in 20 minutes or less? Explain, too, why the Germans would give a fat rat's patootie if someone noticed that the dead Jews were turning red? Why would that concern them?
And I have explained that the occasional person who looked like they had sun burn is not going to be so odd as to make it noticeable. Plus non fatal is irrelevant as the people we are discussing were dead.

Strawman that they were cremated or buried in 20 minutes or less. The evidence of cherry red tells us that 20 minutes is the minimum time needed. The proof I have of the process are the eye witnesses to the process.

Why do I have to explain why Nazis would care or if they were concerned if dead Jews were turning red? The only thing red is the red herring fallacy you have just used.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
Posts: 5961
Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Bergs bogus challenges?

Post by Turnagain » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:48 pm

Nessie wrote:
Turnagain wrote:I see that you're back to the usual hoaxer weasel dodge of citing links to non-fatal examples of CO poisoning. Scott has already posted photos of non livor mortis caused red/pink discoloration of cadavers so I won't bother duplicating his efforts. At any rate, what proof do you have that all ~ 2,000,000 people who were murdered with CO were disposed of either by burning or burying in 20 minutes or less? Explain, too, why the Germans would give a fat rat's patootie if someone noticed that the dead Jews were turning red? Why would that concern them?
And I have explained that the occasional person who looked like they had sun burn is not going to be so odd as to make it noticeable. Plus non fatal is irrelevant as the people we are discussing were dead.

Strawman that they were cremated or buried in 20 minutes or less. The evidence of cherry red tells us that 20 minutes is the minimum time needed. The proof I have of the process are the eye witnesses to the process.

Why do I have to explain why Nazis would care or if they were concerned if dead Jews were turning red? The only thing red is the red herring fallacy you have just used.
Again you weasel dodge that the sunburn appearance of CO poisoning is in non-fatal cases. Scott posted a photo of a bright pink non livor mortis involved discoloration of a corpse. Your links to non-fatal examples of CO poisoning is just a typical hoaxer weasel dodge. Aha! The absence of evidence weasel dodge. Since no eyewitnesses reported that they saw any red/pink cadavers, it proves that all the dead bodies were disposed of before the onset of livor mortis, e.g. 20 minutes. There's no evidence as good as no evidence. Uh-huh. Sure, and the Germans disposed of all dead Jews in 20 minutes or less because.....just because.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 12 guests