Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

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onetruth and been-there are currently taking a 6hr break from the stress of Holocaust debate.

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by DasPrussian »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:04 pm
Been-there is very good at suggesting one thing and claiming another. He employs various tactics such as quotations, question marks and reduced text size to make his points obscure, so he can maintain a fiction others do not understand him, because he is brighter than them.
And what he posted previously is an ideal example of this. After the long-winded and unnecessary imaginary conversation with himself , he then confirmed he just wanted to know why Polish Catholics were being sent to Auschwitz. When I mentioned this in a later post he decided to call me an idiot !!

Quote from Been There : viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1768&start=680#p110286
I would actually like to know why she and her mother as Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz.
Quote from me : viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1768&start=680#p110308
Apparently Been There wants to know why Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz
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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by DasPrussian »

Been There's whole post is a complete joke and a severe cause of embarrassment for any revisionist trying to recruit new members to their cult. It doesn't make any sense and consists of this bizarre imaginary conversation he has created where person 'A' is supposed to represent the 'highly intelligent and renowned rational thinker' Been There (aka 'the voice of reason' :lol: ), while person 'Z' is some straw man average Joe who has watched Schindlers List.

It starts off with Been There trying to describe the Final Solution in 4 general points before introducing the photo of a non Jewish inmate whom BT claims has been called a 'holocaust victim' but he doesn't tell us who actually called her this :
been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:34 am
Z:
1. 'The final solution' aka 'the shoah' aka 'THE Holocaust' was a top-secret policy of genocide of ALL Jews.
2. Only those Jews considered able and suitable for work survived. All others were immediately gassed upon arrival at camps, or survived by miraculous good luck.
3. Those Jews deemed unuseful or unfit for work were not registered, tatooed or given prison clothes. Well, obviously not! The Nazties didn't want any record they existed, let alone had been in an extermination camp. They were just holocausted.
4. Those who were considered too young, too weak, or too old were immediately 'selected' upon arrival at camps like Auschwitz and taken away and 'gassed'.
5. Here is an official camp photo from Auschwitz of Czesława Kwoka, a 14 yr old 'Holocaust victim' (?).
Image
Then he unleashes his imaginary 'conversation' onto us between 'A' and 'Z' ( and a one-off mystery participant he calls 'X' ) and as I will prove by dissecting this embarrassing mess , he should have hit the edit button long before he inflicted this crap onto us all. I have crossed out his imaginary answers and inserted a more realistic answer underneath.
been-there wrote: A: Ermmm... But... but, hang on ...clearly she has been registered, and given prison clothing.
Z: :o How dare you! She is still a 'holocaust victim'.
Z : Yes , she was most probably worked to death like thousands of other holocaust victims. So why are you acting surprised that she was registered and given prison clothing ? Were you not aware that Jews and non Jews were used as slave labour ? If you was aware then why ask your stupid question in the first place ? If you wasn't aware then you need to improve your basic knowledge as it appears appallingly bad at the moment.
been-there wrote: A: How?
Z: Because she didn't survive 'THE Holocaust'™.

X: Was she murdered then?
Z: There is no official record of her death. So her cause of death isn't known.
Z: The death certificate which you quote in your next post says she died of Cachexia during Gastroenteritis. However the Nazis were notorious liars and have been caught out falsifying causes of death , as per this article on HC blog http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... on-of.html . So she could well have been murdered, or died of mistreatment , ie worked to death. Whatever the cause , the Nazis would be either directly or indirectly responsible for her death for it was they who imprisoned her against her will.

been-there wrote: A: How do we know she died during the war then? Or even in this camp?
Z: :o
Why have you asked this question if you aware of the existence of her death certificate from Auschwitz , and the other evidence in the form of the list you mention ?
been-there wrote: A: And isn't she too young to have been selected as useful and as a worker? What work could she do?
Z: Look, she was put in a concentration camp. So that makes her a 'holocaust victim'. OK.
Z: This 14 year old non-Jew has hands, arms and legs yes ? She can use these hands, arms and legs yes ? Well, she can work can't she ? End of conversation.
been-there wrote: A: But...
Z: Are you questioning the holocaust narrative? OMG! We have a 'denier'! Anti-semite! Neo-Nazi, Hitler-loving, racist, denier!
Z: No 'buts', I have already answered your irrelevant question.
been-there wrote: A: No, no, I'm not denying anything. I just don't see how this story hangs together. For example, America and Britain also put hundreds of thousands of their own citizens in camps for having the 'wrong' ethnic background. They are not regarded as holocaust victims. So just because this girl was put in a camp against her will doesn't alone maker her a...
Z: :o Holocaust denier! Scum-of-the-earth! Despicable filth! How DARE you apply intelligence and critical thinking to this narrative? You must only accept that this was the worst act in the history of humanity and repeat 'never forget, never again' (well, actually we mean 'never again to Jews' but we can't say that. )
Z: The holocaust was the attempted genocide of the Jewish race by Nazis, so why would non jewish prisoners of America and Britain be classed as 'holocaust' victims ? It's one thing claiming a non-jew who died in Nazi hands shouldn't be classed as a holocaust victim but to try and claim prisoners of the allies should therefore also be classed the same is nothing short of lunacy !
been-there wrote: A: But be reasonable. Isn't photographing her and 40 to 50,000 others going to make it hard to keep this 'holocaust' genocide-of-ALL-Jews-policy a secret?
Z: The Nazties couldn't help it, German efficiency and bureaucracy.
Z: The photographs were of the registered inmates, not the ones selected for the gas chambers. What would be the point of taking passport style photos of Jews about to be gassed ? So why are you asking such stupid questions ?
But even if they were taking photos of the Jews selected for gassing, are you aware that photos or any other 'top secret' document can be destroyed if need be ? Duh !!!

been-there wrote: A: Oh c'mon. Isn't this photographic proof that actually refutes the popular 'holocaust' narrative? She WAS put in a camp', sure. BUT she was registered; and she WASN'T gassed that we know of; she DOESN'T fit the profile of selected 'worker'. And we don't know if she even died at the camp, or after liberation or ...maybe she survived, emigrated and changed her name, etc.
Z: :o You are an evil person. 'The Holocaust' was real. It was the worst event in human history. The Jews were the supreme victims of the 68 million people who died during WW2. Anyone who dares question any part of this narrative is wicked scum!
Z: Another idiotic question. This girl was not Jewish so why are you using her as evidence that the 'holocaust narrative' has been refuted ? Also, why are you unsure of her fate if you are aware of the death certificate issued by the Nazis ? Are you mental ?


been-there wrote: A: But, be reasonable. This girl wasn't even Jewish, Czesława Kwoka was registered as a Polish Roman Catholic!!
Z: :( There is no point in discussing with a 'denier'.
Z: This just gets worse . So you know she wasn't Jewish but you used her to try and refute the 'holocaust narrative' !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You're a bright lad, aren't you ?
been-there wrote: After her arrival at Auschwitz, Czesława Kwoka was photographed for the Reich's concentration camp records, and she has been identified as one of the approximately 40,000 to 50,000 subjects of such "identity pictures" taken under duress at Auschwitz-Birkenau by Wilhelm Brasse, a young Polish inmate in his twenties (known as Auschwitz prisoner number 3444).[11] Trained as a portrait photographer at his aunt's studio prior to the 1939 German invasion of Poland beginning World War II, Brasse and others had been ordered to photograph inmates by their Nazi captors, under dreadful camp conditions and likely imminent death if the photographers refused to comply.[3]

These photographs that he and others were ordered to take capture each inmate "in three poses: from the front and from each side."[3] Though ordered to destroy all photographs and their negatives, Brasse became famous after the war for having helped to rescue some of them from oblivion.

Such acts of courage as Brasse's and his colleagues enabled many like Kwoka not to become forgotten as mere bureaucratic statistics, but to be remembered as individual human beings.
been-there wrote: Out of 40,000 to 50,000 photographs, guess what, Brasse remembers photographing this young girl, Czesława Kwoka.
Guess what else, the kapo he amazingly remembers also and wierdly he could also remember her nationality... can you guess?
What is so weird about remembering an act of brutality or the nationality of the kapos (where a large % were German) ? Would you feel more confident in believing this individual if he claimed he did not remember one single inmate or one single beating or one single anything during his time in Auschwitz ?
been-there wrote: Wilhelm Brasse told me his extraordinary story ...how the photograph came to be taken. His voice trembles as he recounts what happened.

She was so young and so terrified. The girl didn't understand why she was there and she couldn't understand what was being said to her.
So this woman Kapo (a prisoner overseer) took a stick and beat her about the face. This German woman was just taking out her anger on the girl. Such a beautiful young girl, so innocent. She cried but she could do nothing.
Before the photograph was taken, the girl dried her tears and the blood from the cut on her lip. To tell you the truth, I felt as if I was being hit myself but I couldn't interfere. It would have been fatal for me. You could never say anything.




How can intelligent people accept uncritically and 'believe' all these contradictions and this emotionally manipulative drivel? Its a collective psychosis, I'm telling ya.
So, we have either a 'female German Kapo' or a 'female SS' , and more importantly we have a photo of the girl with a cut lip. BT determines this as serious 'contradictions' (plural ???) but in reality it isn't . A German woman beats an innocent child, that is what he is telling us , whether she was a kapo or SS is immaterial in this instance. Plus I doubt whether BT has checked the correctness of the translations, like he always demands we do when we present translations of German. How ironic that the forums very own 'psychotic' decides to accuse others of displaying the very same condition !!

Edit - oh yeah and after all this, all that BT wanted to know was 'why were Polish Catholics sent to Auschwitz' (!!!!!). But don't repeat this confirmation of what his nonsense post was trying to achieve, as according to BT it will make you sound 'idiotic' , even though he confirmed it himself !!!!
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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by Nessie »

DasPrussian wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:52 pm
.... a complete joke and a severe cause of embarrassment for any revisionist trying to recruit new members to their cult. .....
Just like the rest of the denialist arguments used to sustain their desired belief. Denialists refuse to accept the consequences of not being able to evidence and prove their beliefs. They just do not get that no credible academic will believe something that cannot be evidenced and proved. They will cry the Holocaust (supposedly) cannot be evidenced and proved, but that requires ignoring/disputing a lot of evidence. The denialist version of mass resettlement and AR camps as transit camps has no evidence and for it to be true, requires the cooperation of millions of people who all agreed not to return home after the war ended. The Holocaust as a real event does not need such a CT.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

.
Symptomatic of the whole holocaust 'history' and WW2 history generally is the amount of MISINFORMATION that is spread on social media and which is repeated — and maybe originates — in main-stream publications, documentaries, etc.
Some of that 'misinformation' is deliberate. And some of it merely a result of naive and gullible ignorance. E.g. I accepted the caption on a photograph purporting to be of Eva Braun, although I had niggling doubts. It was only when I searched for photos of Gretl Braun — who I knew little of until a few days ago — that the mistake became apparent.

Misrepresentation of Eva Braun and her sister I now regard as a SYMPTOMATIC example of similar misunderstandings, misinformation and misrepresentation accepted as 'truth' across the board on anything to do with Hitler, WW2 and 'the holocaust'. Basically, common attitudes can be summed up as:
'they look the same and so who cares? I just want pictorial/documentary/archeological artifacts to go with my already accepted and so cherished belief-system'.
In this way, false premises are accepted uncritically, even when exposed, and perpetuated.
Which is exactly the mentality that is understood and exploited for succesful propaganda: tell it big enough and often enough and most people will continue to accept it even when it is successfully refuted.
A truth that Goebbels and Hitler recognised and warned against. And now their warning has been falsely hung around their necks as if it was their own policy. What chutzpah! And again symptomatic of how easily stupid people can be misinformed and manipulated.

After looking into this WW2 history in detail for the first time rather late in my life (early fifties) it became immediately apparent that almost ALL the histories, documentaries, film dramatisations of this period start from the same basic false premises. The exceptions to that are few and far between. (E.g. A.J.P. Taylor)
When you haven't been — and still aren't — particularly interested, this isn't noticed and we all accept and adopt the same false premises and flawed understandings.
Mistakes are fine. But what do WE do when WE find we ourselves are the ones who have been mistaken?
I think this is almost a more important area of research than all the endless quibbling about documents and details.

In discussion with friends it became clear quickly who could intelligently consider and cope with even the possibility of a radical reassessment and perhaps correction, and those who are too emotionally immature and unstable to dare alter their current world-view. Interestingly intelligence or keen intellect wasn't a guage of who could accept change and who couldn't.

Which is why discussion of anything that threatens people's certainty is more about PSYCHOLOGY than HISTORY.

E.g. this is actually a photo of Gretl, not of her elder sister. The caption is wrong:
Image

Image
Not Eva Braun

Here is another photo of Gretl that is wrongly spread across the internet as being her sister:
Image
Not Eva Braun

And this is also Gretl:
Image
Not Eva Braun

Look for photos of Geli Raubal and you'll find the same wrongly attributed photo of the girl on the left coming up frequently.
Image
Not Geli Raubal

According to a close friend of Hitler's its actually an early paramour of Hitler's called Ada Klein.

This photo of another of Adolf's early girlfriends also frequently appears purporting to be of Eva Braun. Its actually Renate Müller:
Image
Not Eva Braun

Image

I say this is symptomatic, because its easy to make mistakes and reach false conlusions when first researching a topic. The subject of this topic thread is about how we react when misjudgements that maybe we have made become increasingly apparent?
We have here at RODOH many people just copying stuff from online sites and published books and presenting it as unassailable fact without checking or thinking it through for themselves. This applies across the spectrum of opinion here, from true-believer to avowed skeptic of the H-narrative.

People form an opinion and then make facts and photos align with their opinion. Eric Hunt very clearly did that here.
Blake did that imho less clearly here.

Its a jungle.

SUMMARY:
Stupid, unflexible people think they know things that they don't.
Stupid, unflexible, dishonest people refuse to correct their wrong opinions when reliably corrected.
Stupid, dishonest people who refuse to be corrected are mildly psychotic and behave unreasonably in discussion.

This regretably in my opinion is what RODOH discussion largely consists of.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

DasPrussian wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:44 pm
...he then confirmed he just wanted to know why Polish Catholics were being sent to Auschwitz. When I mentioned this in a later post he decided to call me an idiot !!

Quote from Been There : viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1768&start=680#p110286
I would actually like to know why she and her mother as Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz.
Quote from me : viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1768&start=680#p110308
Apparently Been There wants to know why Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz
Concentrate now: I would like to know exactly why this specific girl and her mother were sent to Auschwitz.
I have read reasons which I don't really understand nor immediately accept.

I DO NOT want to know why ANY and EVERY Polish Catholic was sent there. :roll:

So I did NOT “confirm he just wanted to know why Polish Catholics were being sent to Auschwitz.”
(Sheesh! We are dealing with intellectual pygmyies here.)
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by Aryan Scholar »

been-there wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:42 am
.
Symptomatic of the whole holocaust 'history' and WW2 history generally is the amount of MISINFORMATION that is spread on social media and which is repeated — and maybe originates — in main-stream publications, documentaries, etc. Some of that 'misinformation' is deliberate. And some of it merely a result of naive and gullible ignorance. (...) Basically, common attitudes can be summed up as: 'they look the same and so who cares? I just want pictorial/documentary/archeological artifacts to go with my already accepted and so cherished belief-system'.
In this way, false premises are accepted uncritically, even when exposed, and perpetuated. (...) I say this is symptomatic, because its easy to make mistakes and reach false conlusions when first researching a topic. The subject of this topic thread is about how we react when misjudgements that maybe we have made become increasingly apparent? We have here at RODOH many people just copying stuff from online sites and published books and presenting it as unassailable fact without checking or thinking it through for themselves. This applies across the spectrum of opinion here, from true-believer to avowed skeptic of the H-narrative. People form an opinion and then make facts and photos align with their opinion.
You are precisely correct. The likes of Nessie and Onetruth and Jeff are a perfect example of people "just copying stuff from online sites and published books and presenting it as unassailable fact without checking".

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by Nessie »

Aryan Scholar wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:34 am
been-there wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:42 am
.
Symptomatic of the whole holocaust 'history' and WW2 history generally is the amount of MISINFORMATION that is spread on social media and which is repeated — and maybe originates — in main-stream publications, documentaries, etc. Some of that 'misinformation' is deliberate. And some of it merely a result of naive and gullible ignorance. (...) Basically, common attitudes can be summed up as: 'they look the same and so who cares? I just want pictorial/documentary/archeological artifacts to go with my already accepted and so cherished belief-system'.
In this way, false premises are accepted uncritically, even when exposed, and perpetuated. (...) I say this is symptomatic, because its easy to make mistakes and reach false conlusions when first researching a topic. The subject of this topic thread is about how we react when misjudgements that maybe we have made become increasingly apparent? We have here at RODOH many people just copying stuff from online sites and published books and presenting it as unassailable fact without checking or thinking it through for themselves. This applies across the spectrum of opinion here, from true-believer to avowed skeptic of the H-narrative. People form an opinion and then make facts and photos align with their opinion.
You are precisely correct. The likes of Nessie and Onetruth and Jeff are a perfect example of people "just copying stuff from online sites and published books and presenting it as unassailable fact without checking".
Evidence please.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by Nessie »

been-there wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:42 am
......

SUMMARY:
Stupid, unflexible people think they know things that they don't.
Stupid, unflexible, dishonest people refuse to correct their wrong opinions when reliably corrected.
Stupid, dishonest people who refuse to be corrected are mildly psychotic and behave unreasonably in discussion.

This regretably in my opinion is what RODOH discussion largely consists of.
What is incredible is that you think the above applies to others and not you.

Academics, using normal standards of evidencing, using the historical method, finds evidence sufficient to prove mass murder, not mass survival and resettlement from the AR camps or places such as Babi Yar.

Denialists, few of whom have any sort of relevant academic background, demand abnormal standards of evidence when it is mass murder and accept hardly any evidence when it is possible there were transits from the AR camps. They dismiss the historical method in favour of "empirical" evidence and "science", but refuse to show how that is applicable and even what evidence they want to see. They pretend it is not a problem that they cannot evidence mass survival from the AR camps or places such as Babi Yar. They dismiss all eye witnesses because some witnesses say things that are wrong/lies or do not make apparent sense. They rely on tactics and fallacies. That is where the stupidity, dishonesty and psychotic behaviour can be found.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by DasPrussian »

been-there wrote:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:22 am
DasPrussian wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:44 pm
...he then confirmed he just wanted to know why Polish Catholics were being sent to Auschwitz. When I mentioned this in a later post he decided to call me an idiot !!

Quote from Been There : viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1768&start=680#p110286
I would actually like to know why she and her mother as Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz.
Quote from me : viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1768&start=680#p110308
Apparently Been There wants to know why Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz
Concentrate now: I would like to know exactly why this specific girl and her mother were sent to Auschwitz.
I have read reasons which I don't really understand nor immediately accept.

I DO NOT want to know why ANY and EVERY Polish Catholic was sent there. :roll:

So I did NOT “confirm he just wanted to know why Polish Catholics were being sent to Auschwitz.”
(Sheesh! We are dealing with intellectual pygmyies here.)

So what is it that don't you understand about the concept of Polish Catholics being deported from the region of Zamosc in 1942 to make room for German settlements ? This girl and her mother were from Zamosc so your Nazi friends decided to imprison them in Auschwitz for getting in the way while simultaneously committing the crime of 'not being German'.

Maybe if this girl was more 'Germanic' looking then she would have been saved from the brutality of Auschwitz and instead she would have experienced the more 'humane' act of being stolen from her mother and stuck in a childrens home in Germany, where no doubt after a few years she would act as a Nazi-baby producing machine for the SS.
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