Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8983
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

Freya wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:21 pm
Revealing of what, been-there?
Revealing of either: a.) your denial or b.) your inability to comprehend what I have already explained here
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous


Would you like to financially contribute to the upkeep of RODOH, kindly contact Scott Smith. All contributions are welcome!


User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8983
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

One of the most important articles ever to be published in Israel was “The need to forget.” In his 1988 op-ed, Yehuda Elkana, who was carried off to Auschwitz as a boy of 10 and survived the Holocaust, wrote:
Yehuda Elkana wrote:Lately I have become convinced that the deepest political and social factor that motivates much of Israeli society in its relations with the Palestinians is not personal frustration, but rather a profound existential ‘angst’ fed by a particular interpretation of the lessons of the Holocaust and the readiness to believe that the whole world is against us.
...the Holocaust became a tool that is used in order to keep us, the Jews, in a position of eternal victimhood and to blind us from seeing what is happing in Israel. The Holocaust is now the most effective ingredient in a grand mechanism of denial. Thus, could this new law be the first step on a road leading to an Israeli society that is less obsessed with the Holocaust? Absolutely not.

The real motivation behind the new law is simple: it’s not about building a less exclusive, less paranoid and less Holocaust-obsessed Israeli society. It’s about keeping the Holocaust sacred; it’s about taking the Holocaust out of petty fights between conservatives and liberals where everyone calls each other a “Nazi.”

Image

Right-wing Israeli politicians understand that if people are brainwashed with the Holocaust, they will see it everywhere and all the time. That is a problem. For these politicians, the Holocaust should always separate us, the Jews, from “all the others.” It should not be a part of the endless internal political battles between Jews in Israel. After all, the Holocaust has become the most effective tool to unite Israeli Jews under a common assumption: they have always hated us, and nothing has changed since, beside the fact that now we have a “Jewish army.” The new law’s role is to keep the Holocaust as the sacred “uniter” in a society consumed by fear.
_ _ _ _ _

“Why does everything in Israel stay the same?” In the last few months I have been hearing that question more and more. Forty-six years of occupation, 20 years of negotiations – and still, nothing has really changed.

Professor Elkana understood that all the way back in 1988. Since then, not only has the way the Israelis understand the Holocaust become an obstacle for any real change in our society, but the Holocaust’s role in the Jews’ eternal-victim complex dramatically increased. The new law reflect an understanding by the right that the Holocaust has “got out of control”: it is everywhere, all the time. It was great to use it against Arafat, Iran’s nuclear plans, proposed borders for Israel, any journalist from Europe who dares to mercilessly criticize Israel. In short, all the “others.” But lately, more than ever, Jews in Israel are using it against each other — and that defeats the purpose.

As always, the solution is quite pathetic, even funny, once you understand that the same politicians who believed they could control the Holocaust discourse realised that it’s uncontrollable, and that they must redirect it in order to make use of it for external enemies. But what’s hidden behind this law isn’t funny: the greatest tragedy in our history has become an obstacle to any meaningful change toward a more inclusive, open and democratic Israeli society. I have to believe it is still possible to build a real democratic society in Israel

https://972mag.com/when-holocaust-disco ... ble/87100/
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8983
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

.
The need to forget

Written in 1988 by Yehuda Elkana.

[excerpts]

Image

Lately I have become more and more convinced that the deepest political and social factor that motivates much of Israeli society in its relations with the Palestinians is not personal frustration, but rather a profound existential "Angst" fed by a particular interpretation of the lessons of the Holocaust and the readiness to believe that the whole world is against us, and that we are the eternal victim...

I wish to assert normatively that any philosophy of life nurtured solely or mostly by the Holocaust leads to disastrous consequences. Without ignoring the historic importance of collective memory, a climate in which an entire people determines its attitude to the present and shapes its future by emphasising the lessons of the past, is fraught with peril for the future of that society, if it wants to live in relative tranquility and relative security, like all other peoples. History and collective memory are an inseparable part of any culture but the past is not and must not be allowed to become the dominant element determining the future of society and the destiny of the people.

...Had the Holocaust not penetrated so deeply into the national consciousness, I doubt whether the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians would have led to so many 'anomalies', and even whether the political peace process would have been today in a blind alley.

I see no greater threat to the future of the State of Israel than the fact that the Holocaust has systematically and forcefully penetrated the consciousness of the Israeli public, even that large segment that did not experience the Holocaust, as well as the generation that was born and grew up here. For the first time I understand the seriousness of what we were doing when, decade after decade, we sent every Israeli child on repeated visits to "Yad Vashem". What did we want those tender youths to do with the experience? We declaimed, insensitively and harshly, and without explanation: "Remember!" "Zechor!" To what purpose? What is the child supposed to do with these memories? Many of the pictures of those horrors are apt to be interpreted as a call to hate. 'Zechor' can easily be understood as a call for continuing and blind hatred.

For our part, we must learn to forget! Today I see no more important political and educational task for the leaders of this nation than to take their stand on the side of life, to dedicate themselves to creating our future, and not to be preoccupied from morning to night, with symbols, ceremonies, and lessons of the Holocaust. They must uproot the domination of that historical "remember!" over our lives.

What I have written here is harsh, and, unlike my custom, stated in black-and- white. This is no accident or a transient mood on my part. I have found no better way to indicate the seriousness of the problem. I know full well that no nation does or should totally forget its past, with all that is included therein. Of course there are some myths that are essential for building our future, like the myth of excellence or the myth of creativity; certainly it is not my intention that we cease teaching our history. What I am trying is to displace the Holocaust from being the central axis of our national experience.”

http://ceuweekly.blogspot.se/2014/08/in ... ehuda.html
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

Aryan Scholar
Posts: 4652
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by Aryan Scholar »

been-there wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:20 pm
.
The need to forget

Written in 1988 by Yehuda Elkana.

For our part, we must learn to forget! Today I see no more important political and educational task for the leaders of this nation than to take their stand on the side of life, to dedicate themselves to creating our future, and not to be preoccupied from morning to night, with symbols, ceremonies, and lessons of the Holocaust. They must uproot the domination of that historical "remember!" over our lives.
A clear invitation to people argue for the survival of Jews, not their death, which I suspect the likes of Nessie, Roberto and Onetruth will ever be able to do it as their had become completely dominated from "morning to night, with symbols, ceremonies, and lessons of the Holocaust".
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 12:12 am
Roberto wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 1:37 pm
Actually the "couple of thousand" is generous in that it includes the two who claimed to have left with whole trainloads. A couple hundred would be more realistic, though the detour would still be implausible. And even a couple of thousand would still be a piss in the ocean of about 780,000 documented deportees to Treblinka.
As I said before Holocaust belief is a mental illness, a bizarre cult of death. Roberto above give one more time evidence Holocaust believers secretly wish Jews being killed and thus why they continually argue for their death instead for their survival. Roberto above argues that a "couple of thousand" Jews - that means, the survival of people who, in accordance with Roberto, was not horrible killed in a homicidal gas chamber - is a "generous" estimation. But that is not all, for Roberto a "more realistic" estimation of Jews who survived is just a "couple hundred". Roberto then conclude that even if its is true that "couple of thousand" Jews survived, that would be just a "piss in the ocean of about 780,000" Jews which Roberto believe were sent to be killed in homicidal gas chambers in Treblinka camp.

The survival of Jews for Holocaust believers like Roberto is just a piss in the ocean of hundreds of thousands of Jews they secretly wish dead.

The word "piss" in the metaphor Roberto used are the Jews who survived. In other words, Roberto's Freud slip of what he really consider the Holocaust survivors.
Aryan Scholar wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:31 am
Nessie wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:02 am
Turnagain wrote:
Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:59 am
Nessie said.
"What happened to the 750 he say were left behind and never seen again?'

Since nobody was gassed, buried, exhumed, cremated and reburied at Treblinka, what difference does it make where the 750 went?
A massive one, because by not being able to trace them, you cannot reasonably believe in their survival and it verifies the evidence you do not wnat to believe as it eliminates the alternative.

We have been over this before, have you got anything new to debate?
As show by Nessie above, the story of the Jewish Holocaust is about to impose on others the absurd belief Jews did not survived but instead died at every German concentration camp during WWII. No one else in the whole world continually argues for the death of millions of people instead of their survival rather than Holocaust believers. It is almost as if every Holocaust believer really wish Jews to be dead regardless of any evidence or argument to the contrary. Holocaust believers are mental sick individuals who cannot fathom the possibility of Jews surviving, they must often talk about their preferred fantasies of how Jews are killed.

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8983
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

Z:
1. 'The final solution' aka 'the shoah' aka 'THE Holocaust' was a top-secret policy of genocide of ALL Jews.
2. Only those Jews considered able and suitable for work survived. All others were immediately gassed upon arrival at camps, or survived by miraculous good luck.
3. Those Jews deemed unuseful or unfit for work were not registered, tatooed or given prison clothes. Well, obviously not! The Nazties didn't want any record they existed, let alone had been in an extermination camp. They were just holocausted.
4. Those who were considered too young, too weak, or too old were immediately 'selected' upon arrival at camps like Auschwitz and taken away and 'gassed'.
5. Here is an official camp photo from Auschwitz of Czesława Kwoka, a 14 yr old 'Holocaust victim' (?).
Image

A: Ermmm... But... but, hang on ...clearly she has been registered, and given prison clothing.
Z: :o How dare you! She is still a 'holocaust victim'.

A: How?
Z: Because she didn't survive 'THE Holocaust'™.

X: Was she murdered then?
Z: There is no official record of her death. So her cause of death isn't known.

A: How do we know she died during the war then? Or even in this camp?
Z: :o

A: And isn't she too young to have been selected as useful and as a worker? What work could she do?
Z: Look, she was put in a concentration camp. So that makes her a 'holocaust victim'. OK.

A: But...
Z: Are you questioning the holocaust narrative? OMG! We have a 'denier'! Anti-semite! Neo-Nazi, Hitler-loving, racist, denier!

A: No, no, I'm not denying anything. I just don't see how this story hangs together. For example, America and Britain also put hundreds of thousands of their own citizens in camps for having the 'wrong' ethnic background. They are not regarded as holocaust victims. So just because this girl was put in a camp against her will doesn't alone maker her a...
Z: :o Holocaust denier! Scum-of-the-earth! Despicable filth! How DARE you apply intelligence and critical thinking to this narrative? You must only accept that this was the worst act in the history of humanity and repeat 'never forget, never again' (well, actually we mean 'never again to Jews' but we can't say that. )

A: But be reasonable. Isn't photographing her and 40 to 50,000 others going to make it hard to keep this 'holocaust' genocide-of-ALL-Jews-policy a secret?
Z: The Nazties couldn't help it, German efficiency and bureaucracy.

A: Oh c'mon. Isn't this photographic proof that actually refutes the popular 'holocaust' narrative? She WAS put in a camp', sure. BUT she was registered; and she WASN'T gassed that we know of; she DOESN'T fit the profile of selected 'worker'. And we don't know if she even died at the camp, or after liberation or ...maybe she survived, emigrated and changed her name, etc.
Z: :o You are an evil person. 'The Holocaust' was real. It was the worst event in human history. The Jews were the supreme victims of the 68 million people who died during WW2. Anyone who dares question any part of this narrative is wicked scum!

A: But, be reasonable. This girl wasn't even Jewish, Czesława Kwoka was registered as a Polish Roman Catholic!!
Z: :( There is no point in discussing with a 'denier'.
After her arrival at Auschwitz, Czesława Kwoka was photographed for the Reich's concentration camp records, and she has been identified as one of the approximately 40,000 to 50,000 subjects of such "identity pictures" taken under duress at Auschwitz-Birkenau by Wilhelm Brasse, a young Polish inmate in his twenties (known as Auschwitz prisoner number 3444).[11] Trained as a portrait photographer at his aunt's studio prior to the 1939 German invasion of Poland beginning World War II, Brasse and others had been ordered to photograph inmates by their Nazi captors, under dreadful camp conditions and likely imminent death if the photographers refused to comply.[3]

These photographs that he and others were ordered to take capture each inmate "in three poses: from the front and from each side."[3] Though ordered to destroy all photographs and their negatives, Brasse became famous after the war for having helped to rescue some of them from oblivion.[3][4][5][6]

Such acts of courage as Brasse's and his colleagues enabled many like Kwoka not to become forgotten as mere bureaucratic statistics, but to be remembered as individual human beings.[3][4][5][6][7]
Out of 40,000 to 50,000 photographs, guess what, Brasse remembers photographing this young girl, Czesława Kwoka.
Guess what else, the kapo he amazingly remembers also and wierdly he could also remember her nationality... can you guess?
Wilhelm Brasse told me his extraordinary story ...how the photograph came to be taken. His voice trembles as he recounts what happened.

She was so young and so terrified. The girl didn't understand why she was there and she couldn't understand what was being said to her.
So this woman Kapo (a prisoner overseer) took a stick and beat her about the face. This German woman was just taking out her anger on the girl. Such a beautiful young girl, so innocent. She cried but she could do nothing.
Before the photograph was taken, the girl dried her tears and the blood from the cut on her lip. To tell you the truth, I felt as if I was being hit myself but I couldn't interfere. It would have been fatal for me. You could never say anything.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czesław ... hing_Kwoka
How can intelligent people accept uncritically and 'believe' all these contradictions and this emotionally manipulative drivel? Its a collective psychosis, I'm telling ya.

Image
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

onetruth
Posts: 200
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:57 pm
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by onetruth »

been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:34 am


A: How do we know she died during the war then? Or even in this camp?
Z: :o

A: And isn't she too young to have been selected as useful and as a worker? What work could she do?
Z: Look, she was put in a concentration camp. So that makes her a 'holocaust victim'. OK.
What a load of sick nonsense

We know that Czesława Kwoka died on 12 March 1943 at Auschwitz from the Auschwitz death books .

What sort of sick bastard supports the placement of a 14 year old girl in a concentration camp and doubts whether she can be called a " victim "

beentere again tries to justify that which can not be justified.

~


~

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8983
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

onetruth wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:27 am
been-there wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:34 am
A: How do we know she died during the war then? Or even in this camp?
Z: :o

A: And isn't she too young to have been selected as useful and as a worker? What work could she do?
Z: Look, she was put in a concentration camp. So that makes her a 'holocaust victim'. OK.
What a load of sick nonsense
We know that Czesława Kwoka died on 12 March 1943 at Auschwitz from the Auschwitz death books .
What sort of sick bastard supports the placement of a 14 year old girl in a concentration camp and doubts whether she can be called a " victim "
beentere again tries to justify that which can not be justified.
Oh boy! :roll:
What sort of psychotically delusional retard spends there time replying to posts they can't even comprehend properly?? ;)

Where have I "justified" or "supported" her being placed in a camp?
I would actually like to know why she and her mother as Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz.
Do you know? The reason I have seen makes little sense.
Do you know ANYTHING about her? Or are you just expressing exaggerated, misdirected outrage as a matter of stupid and automatic habit?

Now... Try and use whatever natural intelligence you have and understand that I do not doubt she can be called a 'victim'. She certainly was an innocent 'victim' of the circumstances of WW2 and the occupation of Poland by National Socialist Germany. I am questioning why is she classified and memorialised as a 'holocaust' victim. :roll: (Holy moly! What a first-class idiot')
The list of people from her village - claims that she — along with two others — was murdered by phenol injection: Gil Witold, Kwoka Czesława, Rycaj Mieczysław. The claim is repeated on a few Polish web pages but without giving any primary source.
Born: August 15, 1928
Died: March 12, 1943. KL Auschwitz
Ethnicity: Polish
Religion: Catholic
Parents: Katarzyna and Pawel Kwoka
Cause of death: phenol intracardiac injection
The file 14902/1943 is her death certificate (akt zgonu) which claims the she died of Cachexia during Gastroenteritis.
So was she murdered? Or did she die from ill-health? Or what?
And why specifically is she regarded as — and given such a high profile as — a 'holocaust victim'?
Is it just because she's young, pretty and as in a photo with camp clothes in a famous concentration camp?

Here the "hero" with the amazing memory Brasse 'remembers'(?) that the alleged person who allegedly 'whipped' the girl in the face was an SS-guard, not a kapo as he claimed elsewhere. But idiots like the one answering here at RODOH can't detect such discrepancies. Anything horrific, sadistic and holocausty-horrible is sucked up and believed like wierd, improbable stuff is believed in any cult.


I can understand the majority of people not knowing any different and so accepting the bullshit uncritically. But when people have been exposed to the discrepancies, illogicalities, impracticalities and not only still 'believe' but attack others for not 'believing' their cultish beliefs as they do, that I DO regard as psychotic behaviour!
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
DasPrussian
Posts: 3257
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by DasPrussian »

So, Been There produces one of his usual over-long posts , which resembles some imaginary and irrelevant conversation a schizophrenic would have with himself, and it is only in his response to onetruth that we finally understand the true point he is making. Apparently Been There wants to know why Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz and why this girl is classed as a holocaust victim.

Why then the need for the schizoid convo ? A convo that bizarrely includes an attempt to question the existence of the 'gassing scenario' by highlighting the plight of a ....wait for it....non-Jewish girl ?? :shock: :shock:

Now maybe I'm missing something here, but surely if BT wanted to attempt to debunk the 'gassing scenario' then he would have used the plight of a Jewish girl , yes ?

As for his pondering over why a Polish Catholic would be sent to Auschwitz, then I suggest he reads a book and gets up to speed with events in holocaust history. As for his irrelevant protestations over what the girl has been remembered as, well first of all who is calling her a holocaust victim in the first place ? Is it the imaginary other person in his schizoid convo ? Whoever it is , who gives a toss ? Only a certified moron would make this an issue in the first place.
All I want for Christmas is a Dukla Prague away kit

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8983
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by been-there »

DasPrussian wrote:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:09 pm
...and it is only in his response to onetruth that we finally understand the true point he is making. Apparently Been There wants to know why Polish Catholics were sent to Auschwitz and why this girl is classed as a holocaust victim...
Ho-hum. Another idiot — in so deep into the collective delusion — who can't understand a simple post, and so replies to a figment of his own confusion.

Image

QUOTE of previous summary for any other true-believer retards: “How can intelligent people accept uncritically and 'believe' all these contradictions and this emotionally manipulative drivel? Its a collective psychosis, I'm telling ya.”
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 28193
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Forensic Psychiatry and the "Holocaust Syndrome"

Post by Nessie »

Been-there is very good at suggesting one thing and claiming another. He employs various tactics such as quotations, question marks and reduced text size to make his points obscure, so he can maintain a fiction others do not understand him, because he is brighter than them.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 15 guests