The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

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Nessie
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 5:55 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:40 pm
Steam, vacuum, chlorine and Zyklon B are not totally contradictory. All involve people dying inside a chamber.
Who saw them die? Perhaps the bodies were pulled dead from a train (as reported), washed and fumigated before burial.
It is likely the clothes would be removed before burial.

These alleged chambers are just rooms, nothing special. The methods of killing are important and contradictory. Perhaps the ray guns, atom bombs, tree felling, masturbation deaths, head knockers and anal waterings which were evidenced could be added to the list of contradictions. The burning blood, fountains of blood etc are also absurd.
Been-there has just shown he STILL cannot tell the difference.
He can, it is you who cannot. The absurdities and contradictions of the witnesses nullifies any statements made. Some fools might believe them but not rational people. They were also not independent but mainly the alleged victims with gain to be made in one form or another by repeating garbage. Some were coerced by intimidation, threats and torture; the holocaust is just political expediency and not based in reality.
The absurdities and contradictions are explained. Those who saw gassings take place are consistent in what they say. Those who did not see and whose testimony is hearsay are far more inconsistent. Too often deniers conflate hearsay with eyewitness evidence, when they should be treated separately.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:39 pm
The absurdities and contradictions are explained. Those who saw gassings take place are consistent in what they say. Those who did not see and whose testimony is hearsay are far more inconsistent. Too often deniers conflate hearsay with eyewitness evidence, when they should be treated separately.
No one saw any gassings, they were not there; they only dragged out bodies which could be the dead from transports.
The Belzec witnesses describe electric metal floors which get submerged with water; the amps go up and the bodies incinerate. The floor tilts and the ashes fall into carts below.
At Sobibor, the gaskammer was on wheels which moved over pits; the floor opened and the bodies fell in.

These absurdities have been spoken about before being as ridiculous as the shrunken head nonsense.

There were real steam chambers called autoclaves and gaskammers for clothes using steam and Insecticide. People saw people from transports showered on a cold Polish morning with steam coming out of the shower rooms. These people then moved through the tube after processing to a customs isolation area prior to be sent over the border.

The process was repeated on return as in the Bialystok to Lublin transports reported by the Railway man.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:23 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:39 pm
The absurdities and contradictions are explained. Those who saw gassings take place are consistent in what they say. Those who did not see and whose testimony is hearsay are far more inconsistent. Too often deniers conflate hearsay with eyewitness evidence, when they should be treated separately.
No one saw any gassings, they were not there; they only dragged out bodies which could be the dead from transports.
The Belzec witnesses describe electric metal floors which get submerged with water; the amps go up and the bodies incinerate. The floor tilts and the ashes fall into carts below.
At Sobibor, the gaskammer was on wheels which moved over pits; the floor opened and the bodies fell in.
Name and quote an EYE-witness, someone who worked at the chambers, Nazi or Jewish, who testifies to metal floors at Belzec or a gas chamber on wheels at Sobibor.
These absurdities have been spoken about before being as ridiculous as the shrunken head nonsense.

There were real steam chambers called autoclaves and gaskammers for clothes using steam and Insecticide. People saw people from transports showered on a cold Polish morning with steam coming out of the shower rooms. These people then moved through the tube after processing to a customs isolation area prior to be sent over the border.

The process was repeated on return as in the Bialystok to Lublin transports reported by the Railway man.
Name and quote an EYE-witness who arrived at Belzec or Sobibor, showered and was then transported and resettled.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:29 pm
  1. Name and quote an EYE-witness, someone who worked at the chambers, Nazi or Jewish, who testifies to metal floors at Belzec or a gas chamber on wheels at Sobibor.
  2. Name and quote an EYE-witness who arrived at Belzec or Sobibor, showered and was then transported and resettled.
  1. bulletin of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency in an article entitled
    “250,000 Warsaw Jews Led to Mass Execution: Electrocuting Introduced As New Method of Mass Killing of Jews.”

    Pole Eugeniusz G. declared:
    “They [the Ukrainians on duty in the camp] told me that several hundred
    Jews at a time were crammed into the barrack, where they were killed
    by an electric current; their corpses were then taken to the trench by
    means of a narrow-gauge railway.”


    All hearsay of course but believed. Of course there are no eyewitnesses, its all nonsense.
  2. Judith Eliazer in her testimony at Rotterdam on 5 February 1946, mentions it was a Transit camp.

    Shelvis says:
    I was ordered to take the Jews at my disposal from Sobibor to Trawniki, where half of
    them, in fact, remained. The others I took back to Lublin into a camp
    that was located next to a [railway?] stop (Old Airport).”


    I don't particulay care when they showered.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Nessie
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:45 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:29 pm
  1. Name and quote an EYE-witness, someone who worked at the chambers, Nazi or Jewish, who testifies to metal floors at Belzec or a gas chamber on wheels at Sobibor.
  2. Name and quote an EYE-witness who arrived at Belzec or Sobibor, showered and was then transported and resettled.
  1. bulletin of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency in an article entitled
    “250,000 Warsaw Jews Led to Mass Execution: Electrocuting Introduced As New Method of Mass Killing of Jews.”

    Pole Eugeniusz G. declared:
    “They [the Ukrainians on duty in the camp] told me that several hundred
    Jews at a time were crammed into the barrack, where they were killed
    by an electric current; their corpses were then taken to the trench by
    means of a narrow-gauge railway.”


    All hearsay of course but believed. Of course there are no eyewitnesses, its all nonsense.
IOW, you have no eye witness evidence to metal floors or a gas chamber on wheels, so that can be dismissed as hearsay.
[*]
Judith Eliazer in her testimony at Rotterdam on 5 February 1946, mentions it was a Transit camp.

Shelvis says:
I was ordered to take the Jews at my disposal from Sobibor to Trawniki, where half of
them, in fact, remained. The others I took back to Lublin into a camp
that was located next to a [railway?] stop (Old Airport).”


I don't particulay care when they showered.

[/list]
https://www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/ned ... rtha-ensel

"On 10 March 1943, 28-year-old hairdresser Judith Eliazar from Rotterdam, and Bertha Ensel from Amsterdam, 18 years old and a needlewoman by profession, were put on a transport from transit camp Westerbork to Sobibor in East Poland. They were there for only a brief period. ‘We were selected; 30 girls and 44 men were removed from the transport,’ both women stated in 1946."

No one was showered and then resettled from Sobibor.

The Achilles Heel of denial is its lack of witness evidence for its claim that millions were processed through the AR camps and resettled elsewhere.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:55 pm
No one was showered and then resettled from Sobibor.
Sobibor was a forestry camp originally and remains that now; the Kommandantur is still standing from the days of it being seconded by the Reich. The building is about 8km from Wlodawa the customs point, similar in distance of TII to the Malkinia customs facility.

Making a crass statement like above simply means no thought has been given, a knee jerk reaction. It is clear that people left Sobibor to go to the nearby camps such as Trawniki. It is quite possible people are mixing up the name Sobi bor with Svoni bor (Czerwony bor) which was an actual execution facility.

Sobibor was a transit camp as evidenced by Himmlers statement:
“The Sobibór transit camp, located in the Lublin district, is to be
converted into a concentration camp. A dismantling unit for captured
enemy munitions is to be set up in the concentration camp.”


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Nessie
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:57 pm
Nessie wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:55 pm
No one was showered and then resettled from Sobibor.
Sobibor was a forestry camp originally and remains that now; the Kommandantur is still standing from the days of it being seconded by the Reich. The building is about 8km from Wlodawa the customs point, similar in distance of TII to the Malkinia customs facility.

Making a crass statement like above simply means no thought has been given, a knee jerk reaction.
No, the statement above is due to you not having any evidence.

I know you are happy believing in what you cannot evidence to have happened, but that is very unusual, most sensible and certainly all academic people will only accept what can be evidenced.
It is clear that people left Sobibor to go to the nearby camps such as Trawniki. It is quite possible people are mixing up the name Sobi bor with Svoni bor (Czerwony bor) which was an actual execution facility.

Sobibor was a transit camp as evidenced by Himmlers statement:
“The Sobibór transit camp, located in the Lublin district, is to be
converted into a concentration camp. A dismantling unit for captured
enemy munitions is to be set up in the concentration camp.”
Now that is evidence Sobibor was a transit camp, but it is weak evidence, as there is an obvious reason why Himmler would not call Sobibor a death camp and his claim is uncorroborated.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:10 pm
Now that is evidence Sobibor was a transit camp, but it is weak evidence, as there is an obvious reason why Himmler would not call Sobibor a death camp and his claim is uncorroborated.
Far from weak evidence; it was an official Reich document.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:33 pm
been-there wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:34 pm
.....

Even when those eye-witnesses actually are the biggest burden and obstacle to ‘the holocaust’ being acceptable as credible, accurate history.

See below, for a recent example of this...
Columnist falls for Dachau Gas Chamber hoax

......

Morin did not claim that he personally witnessed any of the gassings or cremations. He was probably telling stories he had been told by others—stories that likely were promoted by the U.S. Army as part of an anti-Germany post-war propaganda campaign.

.....
The example given is of hearsay, not eye-witness evidence.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hearsay

"1 unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge: I pay no attention to hearsay.
2 an item of idle or unverified information or gossip; rumor: a malicious hearsay."

Yet again someone has mixed up eyewitness and hearsay evidence. It does not matter how often the difference is explained to certain people, they cannot get to grips with it. Let's see if they will be honest and admit to their mistake.
Been-there is not honest enough to admit to his mistake.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:21 pm
Been-there is not honest enough to admit to his mistake.
Anyone who says they were an eye witness to a gassing event is lying; there were none. This is why the whole scenario relies on hearsay and rumours. A few think they can make a few shekels from their stories and so lie; this is what joos do.

The house of cards is falling in the wind of truth.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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