The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

[Turnagain]

Nessie wrote:

You rely on "what ifs" and "coulda wouldas", not me. You have had to invent the mass transportation and accommodation of millions of people, without any evidence to back that up. You try and support your claim with nonsense that Jews or Soviets or both coulda got to all of the witnesses and persuaded or coerced them all into lying.

No, I don't rely on "what ifs" and "coulda woulda's". Curious that you should fall back on that hoary old political trick of accusing your opponent of the very thing for which you're guilty. I make no such claim that the Jews or the Soviets "coulda" got to all of the alleged witnesses. What I DO claim is that nobody was steamed/gassed/vacuumed, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque at Treblinka. Quite simple really, the Jews weren't murdered at Treblinka so they went elsewhere.

There is reliable testimony from eyewitnesses and the fragmentary records from the USHMM that evidences that is exactly what happened. You, who claims that a handful of tiny unidentified bone fragments is proof of the cremains of 850,000 cadavers, declares that evidence insufficient to indicate that Treblinka was indeed a transit camp.

That is a lie, pure and simple.

If that's the case then all you have to do is present your unequivocal evidence that the Jews were steamed/gassed/vacuumed in hermetically sealed chambers, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque. Don't forget to name and quote the eyewitnesses who give similar and coherent accounts of how all that was accomplished. No weasel dodging, just name the witnesses and give a link to their quotes. Seems a simple enough request.

You dodge that lab testing was done for remains found at Sobibor and that there are GPR scans in C S-C report.

There was one sample of "reddish colored earth" sent for lab testing from Sobibor. No results from those tests were ever published. CS-C presented one GPR scan from Treblinka and stated that she would return to Treblinka and find the definite locations of the giant mass graves. After eight (8) years she's still a no-show. At Sobibor, Hami uncovered two (2) graves that contained 8(?) bodies. He also found the foundation of a building that didn't match the descriptions of the alleged gas chamber. Nessie weasel dodges the facts once again.

You claim everyone left the camp based on the evidence that only 1% of arrivals left the camp.

No, what I've said is that the witness testimony and the records from the USHMM are evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp. You try to minimize the number of deportees known to have left the camp but it remains that thousands of deportees did in fact transit through Treblinka. The 15-20,000 known to have left T-II isn't an insignificant number.

That witnesses claimed something happened and then an archaeological examination confirmed what the witnesses said, is what has happened with the AR camps. Those archaeologists did not claim something that they cannot evidence happened. You do.

You are demanding that we ignore the evidence of the Indians and archaeologists and we believe in the popular account.

Hunh? You have NO archaeological or forensic proof that millions were killed at the AR camps. There IS evidence that the Jews were transited through those camps. There was a popular account and the Indian's account of how the battle of the Little Bighorn progressed. A forensic study of the battleground determined that the Indian's account was correct. No such forensic examination of the AR camps is allowed. Barriers have been placed to prevent just such an investigation. I gave the battle of the Little Bighorn as an example of what a forensic examination could accomplish if it were allowed.

Indeed, as the archaeologists found evidence, and they went with what is evidenced. You demand we believe in what is not evidenced.

Only if you ignore the evidence they were murdered and you believe something else which is not evidenced.

Only if you ignore the evidence they were murdered and you believe something else which is not evidenced.

(sigh) Nessie resorts to his false claims that he has "evidence" of the Jews being murdered in the AR camps. When asked to present such evidence or at least reliable witness testimony he weasel dodges furiously. He then returns with his fake claims of "evidence". It's tiresome but there it is. He then trots out all of his "what ifs" and "coulda woulda's" as "proof" of the steam/gas/vacuum chambers, the giant mass graves, the exhumations and the cremations on the magic Jew barbeque. Of course it never occurs to him that the Soviets had control of all six of the so-called extermination camps and their attendant records for over 45 years. He then wails, "Where did they gooooo?". So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

[Huntinger]

The witnesses to the mass gassings behave as witnesses normally behave and their evidence is corroborated by a combination of documents, photos and physical evidence.

So this one believes; no one else does except Sergei and Dr T both proven fraudsters according to deathcamps.org

[been-there]

The above symbol is further evidence that Jews consider promulgation of ‘THE Holocaust’ as paramount in their justification of ongoing land theft in Palestine. It is central to their self-identity as a non-ethnic-based ‘people’ and as a formative and inseparable event justifying their illegal, genocidal activities.

This is why it seems imperative to them that everyone must believe the ‘holocaust’ eye-witnesses and why to doubt that has become regarded as a form of anti-semitism. It is because ‘the Holocaust’ has replaced Judaism as the central belief of those who self-identify as Jewish.

Even when those eye-witnesses actually are the biggest burden and obstacle to ‘the holocaust’ being acceptable as credible, accurate history.

See below, for a recent example of this...

Columnist falls for Dachau Gas Chamber hoax

JOHN HUSS • NOVEMBER 7, 2020

Last month, Townhall.com columnist Marina Medvin published a column about letters allegedly written by Leon Morin, a 29-year old soldier who helped liberate the Dachau concentration camp in 1945. In his letters, Morin made a number of eyebrow-raising claims about Dachau—claims that Medvin swallowed uncritically:

— The camp contained a gas chamber disguised as a shower room.
— The gas chamber exterminated inmates using chlorine gas.
— There were at least 20 camps just like Dachau on German soil.
Today, no historian — mainstream or revisionist, Jewish or gentile — would agree with these claims. According to the official Dachau website, “Killing people on a mass scale through poison gas never took place in the Dachau concentration camp.” According to the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, the Germans operated only five extermination camps: Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor, Treblinka, and Auschwitz-Birkenau. All were located in Poland, not Germany. Neither mainstream historians nor revisionists believe that chlorine gassings occurred at any of the camps.

In his letter, Morin claimed that Dachau’s prison guards gassed thousands of inmates in a three-hour period just before U.S. troops arrived, of which “more than half” were “half cremated.” The point, we are led to believe, was to kill as many Jews as possible immediately before the camp was liberated and to conceal the dead bodies from the U.S. soldiers. If the point was to conceal evidence of gassings, we are left to wonder why the Germans would go to the trouble of half cremating bodies rather than fully cremating them. It is also curious that the guards waited until the very last minute to administer these alleged executions when there would have been ample opportunity to do so earlier.

According to Morin, the gas chamber had a capacity of 250. To gas 2,000 inmates thus would require eight separate gassings. It takes time to load 250 people into a small room. It takes time for a gassing to kill a group of people. And it takes time to drag 25,000+ pounds of human flesh out of that room. To administer 8 or more gassings in three hours the German guards and their staff would have had to average one gassing every 22.5 minutes.

Even more remarkable was the pace at which the gassed bodies were allegedly cremated. According to Morin, there were six crematories at Dachau—two that “can hold three bodies and four more who can hold six apiece.” This appears to be false: there were apparently only two crematoria ever built at Dachau and it is not clear that both were functional when Dachau was liberated. The official Dachau website shows only one crematorium building, referred to as “barrack X.”. Morin presumably meant to say that there were six ovens in this one crematorium and is claiming—improbably—that multiple bodies could be shoved into each oven. For the sake of argument, let’s accept this questionable claim and do the math. To simplify the analysis, we will make the following assumptions: It takes one hour to fully cremate bodies in an oven, no matter how many bodies are crammed inside; it takes half an hour to half cremate a body; time spent moving bodies to the crematorium from the gas chamber and loading them into the ovens is zero; time spent unloading half-cremated bodies from the ovens is zero; time spent moving half-cremated bodies out of the crematorium is zero. So, that gives us:

• 2 ovens that can hold three bodies each = 6 bodies fully cremated per hour
• 4 ovens that can hold six bodies each = 24 bodies fully cremated per hour
• = Total of 30 bodies fully cremated per hour
• = 60 bodies half cremated per hour
• = 180 bodies half cremated in three hours

Under more realistic assumptions, the numbers might look something like this:

• 6 ovens that can hold 1-2 bodies body each = 6-12 bodies cremated per hour
• = 18-24 bodies fully cremated in three hours
• = 36-48 bodies half-cremated in three hours
Of course, if we take into account time spent dragging corpses from the gas chamber to the crematorium, loading them into the ovens, removing half-cremated bodies from the ovens, and hauling half-cremated bodies out of the crematorium, the number would be even lower. It is also reasonable to assume that some time would be required to cool the oven before removing half-cremated bodies. Even under the most generous assumptions, Morin’s claim—more than a thousand half-cremations in just three hours, or one half-cremation every 10 seconds or so—obviously is impossible.

Morin did not claim that he personally witnessed any of the gassings or cremations. He was probably telling stories he had been told by others—stories that likely were promoted by the U.S. Army as part of an anti-Germany post-war propaganda campaign.

Some of Medvin’s readers attempted to rebut Morin’s false allegations, but it appears that their comments have been deleted by Townhall staff. (So much for the idea that conservatives support free speech.)

In a follow-up column, Medvin highlighted Morin’s claim that camp guards used bloodhounds to torture Dachau inmates. She states that this claim is backed by “historic photos” which “show Dachau prisoners fighting the ravenous dogs with clubs to survive.” The only photo she linked to, however, shows no such fight—only a pair of inmates sitting near a dead dog. For all we know, the dog may have died of starvation or old age. Curiously, Medvin has not written about similar allegations directed at Israel (see here, here, here, and here).

If it is real, Morin’s letter is historically significant. It is not evidence that there were gas chambers at Dachau (as Medvin believes), but does illustrate a post-war propaganda campaign designed to vilify Nazi Germany—a propaganda campaign that continues to this day.

https://www.unz.com/article/townhall-co ... mber-hoax/

[Turnagain]

Nessie stamps his feet and shrieks, "It did happen, it did happen". Go trot out your lies and bogus "evidence" to someone who hasn't heard miles of your drivel before now. Your fantasies are boring.

[Huntinger]

Yet again someone has mixed up eyewitness and hearsay evidence. It does not matter how often the difference is explained to certain people, they cannot get to grips with it. Let's see if they will be honest and admit to their mistake.

It is not eye witness and hearsay evidence that is being mixed up; it is the rejection of obviously false witness statements which is the issue. The poster has said this himself on another forum:

I am a now retired police officer. I have been to court hundreds of times.

A retired Polizist; it is assumed that the court appearances were to give evidence and not as a defendant. Considering what is called "evidence" within this jurisdiction is venal and extortionate.
Then there is the following dribble constantly repeated here and elsewhere:

You demand that we disbelieve what is evidenced and believe what is not evidenced
Is there any other event that you believe happened, without there being any evidence to support it?

The poster believes that gassing events are evidenced, despite the huge contradictions; in most jurisdiction the penalty for fraudulent evidence is a felony punishable by years in Prison; it is only the Nürnberg trials that allowed such marsupial escapades due to the fact that judicial notice was taken of the event.

I wonder how many innocent people are rotting away in some dungeon due to Nessies incompetence as a Polizist; a law enforcement officer not an officer of the peace.

[Nessie]

Yet again someone has mixed up eyewitness and hearsay evidence. It does not matter how often the difference is explained to certain people, they cannot get to grips with it. Let's see if they will be honest and admit to their mistake.

.....

Huntinger quotes me from a post that has disappeared. Looks like I will have to post it again.

[Nessie]

.....

Even when those eye-witnesses actually are the biggest burden and obstacle to ‘the holocaust’ being acceptable as credible, accurate history.

See below, for a recent example of this...

Columnist falls for Dachau Gas Chamber hoax

......

Morin did not claim that he personally witnessed any of the gassings or cremations. He was probably telling stories he had been told by others—stories that likely were promoted by the U.S. Army as part of an anti-Germany post-war propaganda campaign.

.....

The example given is of hearsay, not eye-witness evidence.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/hearsay

"1 unverified, unofficial information gained or acquired from another and not part of one's direct knowledge: I pay no attention to hearsay.
2 an item of idle or unverified information or gossip; rumor: a malicious hearsay."

Yet again someone has mixed up eyewitness and hearsay evidence. It does not matter how often the difference is explained to certain people, they cannot get to grips with it. Let's see if they will be honest and admit to their mistake.

[Huntinger]

Yet again someone has mixed up eyewitness and hearsay evidence. It does not matter how often the difference is explained to certain people, they cannot get to grips with it. Let's see if they will be honest and admit to their mistake.

When witnesses lie or totally mistaken is what is being discussed. I have recently shown how Arad lied or mistaken after he reported what so called witnesses reported. This refers to the Bialystok to Lublin transports on the 18 and 19 of August.
The StationMaster was a witness and give an entirely different set of data than Arad.

Why the witnesses lied is another matter. The totally contradictory statements from steaming to vacuum, chlorine to ZyklonB additives; all this has been said before a thousand or so times.

The fact is that most of the witnesses statements to atrocities are bogus and not worth the gas flow out their lying mouths.

[Nessie]

Yet again someone has mixed up eyewitness and hearsay evidence. It does not matter how often the difference is explained to certain people, they cannot get to grips with it. Let's see if they will be honest and admit to their mistake.

When witnesses lie or totally mistaken is what is being discussed. I have recently shown how Arad lied or mistaken after he reported what so called witnesses reported. This refers to the Bialystok to Lublin transports on the 18 and 19 of August.
The StationMaster was a witness and give an entirely different set of data than Arad.

Arad is not a witness.

Why the witnesses lied is another matter. The totally contradictory statements from steaming to vacuum, chlorine to ZyklonB additives; all this has been said before a thousand or so times.

The fact is that most of the witnesses statements to atrocities are bogus and not worth the gas flow out their lying mouths.

Steam, vacuum, chlorine and Zyklon B are not totally contradictory. All involve people dying inside a chamber.

That deniers constantly witter on about steam etc proves that they are unable to differentiate between hearsay and eyewitness evidence, no matter how often the difference is explained. Been-there has just shown he STILL cannot tell the difference.

[Huntinger]

Steam, vacuum, chlorine and Zyklon B are not totally contradictory. All involve people dying inside a chamber.

Who saw them die? Perhaps the bodies were pulled dead from a train (as reported), washed and fumigated before burial.
It is likely the clothes would be removed before burial.

These alleged chambers are just rooms, nothing special. The methods of killing are important and contradictory. Perhaps the ray guns, atom bombs, tree felling, masturbation deaths, head knockers and anal waterings which were evidenced could be added to the list of contradictions. The burning blood, fountains of blood etc are also absurd.

Been-there has just shown he STILL cannot tell the difference.

He can, it is you who cannot. The absurdities and contradictions of the witnesses nullifies any statements made. Some fools might believe them but not rational people. They were also not independent but mainly the alleged victims with gain to be made in one form or another by repeating garbage. Some were coerced by intimidation, threats and torture; the holocaust is just political expediency and not based in reality.