What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

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blake121666
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by blake121666 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:01 pm

Nessie wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:16 am
The Nazis recorded how many Jews were in Nazi occupied territory in the east and details can be found in various Nazi reports, here at Wannsee;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... nutes.html

here, by Korherr;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

here in one of the many Einsatzgruppen OSRs;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rt101.html

here, as recorded by Jeckeln;

http://www.yadvashem.org/untoldstories/ ... te_id=1079

here, as recorded by Hofle;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/educ ... -telegram/

What happened to them? They were never under Soviet control.
Your Wannsee list has over 8 million of the over 11 million total "under Soviet control"! :lol:

The KR has about 2.5 million having been directly handled by the Germans and about 1.5-2.0 million within the German sphere of influence (liberally defined - Hungary, Rumania, Greece, ... etc).

Those EG reports only deal with V.6 of the KR.

The YV link concerns comparatively few Jews.

And the Hoefle Telegram is V.4 of the KR.

So you've enumerated about 4.5 million Jews directly accessible to the Germans here (about 1 million of which are "Soviet" Jews) - plus however many more they'd come across further into Soviet territories.

So up to the KR we have about 2.5 million slaughtered Jews. After that it is alleged that a little under 1 million more were slaughtered in death camps, a little over 1 million more were slaughtered in the field, and something like 1/2 million more died for other reasons. Just very roughly speaking.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Huntinger » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:25 pm

People perished in the Lagers due to atrocious conditions caused by war. You are merely playing with numbers and making gross estimates.
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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:40 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:01 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:16 am
The Nazis recorded how many Jews were in Nazi occupied territory in the east and details can be found in various Nazi reports, here at Wannsee;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... nutes.html

here, by Korherr;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

here in one of the many Einsatzgruppen OSRs;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rt101.html

here, as recorded by Jeckeln;

http://www.yadvashem.org/untoldstories/ ... te_id=1079

here, as recorded by Hofle;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/educ ... -telegram/

What happened to them? They were never under Soviet control.
Your Wannsee list has over 8 million of the over 11 million total "under Soviet control"! :lol:
It does not give a date for when the list of each country's Jewish population is from. Once the Nazis had invaded in 1941, they took many Ukrainian, Russian and Baltic State Jews under its control. Here is evidence for that, the Stahlecker map;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Wal ... tzgruppe_A

It is pretty clear what is happening to them.
The KR has about 2.5 million having been directly handled by the Germans and about 1.5-2.0 million within the German sphere of influence (liberally defined - Hungary, Rumania, Greece, ... etc).
In its conclusion, Korherr states "These figures indicate that the Jewish population of Europe has already been reduced by 4 million."
Those EG reports only deal with V.6 of the KR.

The YV link concerns comparatively few Jews.

And the Hoefle Telegram is V.4 of the KR.
That shows local figures and pertaining to certain specific camps.
So you've enumerated about 4.5 million Jews directly accessible to the Germans here (about 1 million of which are "Soviet" Jews) - plus however many more they'd come across further into Soviet territories.

So up to the KR we have about 2.5 million slaughtered Jews. After that it is alleged that a little under 1 million more were slaughtered in death camps, a little over 1 million more were slaughtered in the field, and something like 1/2 million more died for other reasons. Just very roughly speaking.
The slaughter did not stop until towards the end of 1944. By then, gassing and shooting had claimed c5.5million lives.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:41 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:25 pm
People perished in the Lagers due to atrocious conditions caused by war. You are merely playing with numbers and making gross estimates.
I am looking at the evidence and yes, you are correct, people did perish in the camps, some camps far more than others. There is no evidence of resettlement.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by blake121666 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:44 pm

Replies in red
Nessie wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:40 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:01 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:16 am
The Nazis recorded how many Jews were in Nazi occupied territory in the east and details can be found in various Nazi reports, here at Wannsee;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... nutes.html

here, by Korherr;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rherr.html

here in one of the many Einsatzgruppen OSRs;

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rt101.html

here, as recorded by Jeckeln;

http://www.yadvashem.org/untoldstories/ ... te_id=1079

here, as recorded by Hofle;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/educ ... -telegram/

What happened to them? They were never under Soviet control.
Your Wannsee list has over 8 million of the over 11 million total "under Soviet control"! :lol:
It does not give a date for when the list of each country's Jewish population is from. Once the Nazis had invaded in 1941, they took many Ukrainian, Russian and Baltic State Jews under its control. Here is evidence for that, the Stahlecker map;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Wal ... tzgruppe_A

It is pretty clear what is happening to them.

The numbers the Germans came across is the point of contention. over 8 million of the over 11 million Jews in that Wannsee link are assumptions about the numbers of Jews in areas controlled by the Soviets.
The KR has about 2.5 million having been directly handled by the Germans and about 1.5-2.0 million within the German sphere of influence (liberally defined - Hungary, Rumania, Greece, ... etc).
In its conclusion, Korherr states "These figures indicate that the Jewish population of Europe has already been reduced by 4 million."

It then says, "the reduction of the Jewish population of Europe from 1937 to the beginning of 1943 could be estimated at 4 and a half million."

And then it says:

"Altogether, European Jewry must have been reduced by almost half since 1933, that is to say, during the first decade of the development of power of National Socialism.

Again half, that is a quarter of the total Jewish population of 1937, has fled to other countries."

So it is saying that roughly 2.5 million EMIGRATED to outside Europe ("fled to other countries"). One can infer from this that about 1.8 million that were in Europe in 1933 had died (listed as "evacuated"). Together with the 633,300 of V.6 (in the Russian territories), the report has altogether about 2.5 million Jews having been "evacuated".

So the KR evidences German knowledge and handling of about 2.5 million Jews. And it mentions about 1.5 million to 2 million as being in areas that the Germans currently or would eventually deal with (Hungary, Rumanis, Greece, ... etc).

Those EG reports only deal with V.6 of the KR.

The YV link concerns comparatively few Jews.

And the Hoefle Telegram is V.4 of the KR.
That shows local figures and pertaining to certain specific camps.

It is assumed by all to be related to KR V.4
So you've enumerated about 4.5 million Jews directly accessible to the Germans here (about 1 million of which are "Soviet" Jews) - plus however many more they'd come across further into Soviet territories.

So up to the KR we have about 2.5 million slaughtered Jews. After that it is alleged that a little under 1 million more were slaughtered in death camps, a little over 1 million more were slaughtered in the field, and something like 1/2 million more died for other reasons. Just very roughly speaking.
The slaughter did not stop until towards the end of 1944. By then, gassing and shooting had claimed c5.5million lives.
About 3.5-5.0 million Jews are alleged to have been directly slaughtered by gassing and shooting: about 2.5-3.0 million by gassing and about 1.0-2.0 million by shooting

BTW, the KR V.4 has c1.27 million Jews passing through the AR camps and 0.15 million passing through Chelmno. I've corrected your "c1.24 million" posts for years but you still keep referring to "c1.24 million". You are off by 30,000 with that "c1.24" reference.

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blake121666
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by blake121666 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:51 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:25 pm
People perished in the Lagers due to atrocious conditions caused by war. You are merely playing with numbers and making gross estimates.
The numbers are based on GERMAN estimates at the time. There is also the Stroop Report, train schedules, Veesenmayer telegrams (Butz, Chapter 5), documents regarding dental gold and clothing and valuables from the AR camps, witnesses (German, Jewish, and other), ... etc to go on. Each of these things needs a counter-narrative to explain them.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Huntinger » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:56 pm

This is easily explained in war, disease, natural deaths. In the modern world there are on average 8 deaths per thousand of population. In war time it would be higher than the birthrate which is 19 per thousand. 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe in 1939 which means that in the 5 years of turmoil about 181 thousand people would have perished from natural causes. In that war these fatalities could easily be doubled.
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:34 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:56 pm
This is easily explained in war, disease, natural deaths. In the modern world there are on average 8 deaths per thousand of population. In war time it would be higher than the birthrate which is 19 per thousand. 9.5 million Jews lived in Europe in 1939 which means that in the 5 years of turmoil about 181 thousand people would have perished from natural causes. In that war these fatalities could easily be doubled.
Easily explained, but yet, no evidence.

I can easily explain that the high death rate was due to gassing and shooting and not bother to evidence that, since it is your standard.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Trolljegeren » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:41 am

Nessie wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:34 am
Easily explained, but yet, no evidence.
There is ample evidence that living organisms do die from natural causes and have been doing it since life appeared on the planet. As it is so self evident it would not be expected that any member would provide evidence but thank you Nessie for not repeating the constant nonsense we have been reading. Your evidence is never accepted for the most part.

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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:45 am

Back on topic, what happened to those who say were not gassed or shot? I am only interested in evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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