What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

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blake121666
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:33 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:22 pm
Henry wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:42 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:21 pm
Henry wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:08 pm
From the same Masters' thesis about 600,000 Jews leaving the Soviet Union on Dutch visas, we begin the chapter titled "The Second World War" with the following statement:
The Second World War

As a result of the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact of 1939, the Soviet Union annexed parts of Romania and Poland, as well as the Baltic states. This added another 1.88 million Jews to the Soviet Jewish population. Many of those who refused to accept Soviet passports were deported to Siberia, where most perished under the harsh circumstances.

Source: see p.38 https://dspace.library.uu.nl/bitstream/ ... sAllowed=y
Yes, the AJC yearbook refers to this - as does Sanning. This is THOUGHT to be mistaken. I'll have to look into these claims again. "Where the Jews went" is an EXCEEDINGLY difficult subject to tackle with alot of seemingly dead ends. It's very surprising that something written today still holds these wartime claims. You'd think Jews would bite their heads off for this!
Solzhenitsyn disagreed with you. He had access to Soviet/Russian archives and credited the Jew, Lazar Kaganovich with personally organising the transfer of non-Soviet Jews deep into the Russian interior. IIRC, Solzhenitsyn put the figure at well over 2 million.

Kaganovich organised the transports with the assistance of the same (Jewish) transport/rail manager he later relied upon to ferry thousands of Poles to their deaths at Katyn.
Are you sure it is specifically Jews being referenced? It is well known that millions of non-Jewish Poles were sent to the interior of the USSR. That was even in all of the papers a number of years ago.
I found the AJC Yearbook mention of this in the 1941-1942 statistics:

http://www.ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/Fil ... istics.pdf


Pages 662-665 (13-16 of the pdf) are

Image
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Notice the part about
AJC Yearbook, 1941 664 wrote:Thus, for example, it is an established fact that many Jews formerly residing in Russian-occupied Poland have been deported to Siberia, while many living in conquered Western Europe have been dumped into the Lublin area in German-occupied Poland12

12. A Report on Assistance to Overseas Communities of the Joint Distribution Committee dated July 17, 1941 places the number of these at 30,000
The Lublin reference is to the short-lived Lublin Reservation

In the previous year's Yearbook (1940-1941) it states
AJC Yearbook 1940 594 wrote:The Jews of these areas, together with those in the Gouvernement General as in the Reich and its protectorates, are to be confined to the so-called Lublin "reservation."3 In the Soviet-occupied area of Poland, economic conditions are reported to have stimulated a mass exodus of Jews into the interior of Russia.4

3. The German Government's population policy in the occupied and annexed territories is explained in a statement issued by the Polish Information Bureau in London, on November 3, 1939. See also "The Persecution of Jews in German-occupied Poland," Free Europe Pamphlet No. 2, London, 1940.

4. Reports to this effect have been current in the daily press in the United States and abroad.
EDIT:

Here's an interesting table from the 1940-1941 AJC Yearbook of how they thought the Jews were arranged in Europe before 7/31/40

Image

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:41 pm

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:27 pm
You have insufficient evidence to support your idea that people stayed anywhere, except for a sleepover, which is normal on long journeys.
That is not my idea. My "idea" based on the evidence is that on arrival the Dutch went through a selection process, some selected to work went on to other camps and the rest were gassed.
Showers refreshments, sleep and so on. The testimonies have been shown 4 times before by myself and others with no intention of repeating them. To keep on asking is time wasting and deliberate.
There is no testimony of anyone having a shower, refreshments and sleep over at Sobibor.
As there was only one telegram that is all he was required to do, a single census figure or set of figures for the recipient to pass on to the statisticians.
Hofle, who worked in the AR operation gathered statistics for Korherr, the statistician to report to Himmler as to the progress of the Final Solution.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by blake121666 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:34 pm

Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:41 pm
As there was only one telegram that is all he was required to do, a single census figure or set of figures for the recipient to pass on to the statisticians.
Hofle, who worked in the AR operation gathered statistics for Korherr, the statistician to report to Himmler as to the progress of the Final Solution.
No he didn't (Höfle). Korherr did not write that part of the report. That part was given to Korherr verbatim by someone else.

Höfle worked under Globocnik. According to wikipedia:
wikipedia wrote:The document consists of several cables in translation,[1] among them a top-secret message sent by SS Sturmbannführer Hermann Höfle on 11 January 1943; one, to SS Obersturmbannführer Adolf Eichmann in Berlin, and one to SS Obersturmbannführer Franz Heim in German-occupied Kraków (Cracow).[2][3]

1. "The Hoefle Telegram". National Archives. Kew, Richmond, Surrey. 2017. Catalogue reference HW 16/23.

2. Public Record Office, Kew, England, HW 16/23, decode GPDD 355a distributed on 15 January 1943, radio telegrams nos 12 and 13/15, transmitted on 11 January 1943.

3. Witte, Peter; Tyas, Stephen (Winter 2001). "A New Document on the Deportation and Murder of Jews during "Einsatz Reinhardt" 1942". Holocaust and Genocide Studies. Oxford University Press. 15 (3): 472. doi:10.1093/hgs/15.3.468. Retrieved 5 May 2015.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by rollo the ganger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:07 pm

Nessie wrote:There is no testimony of anyone having a shower, refreshments and sleep over at Sobibor.
There is no testimony of anyone having taken a shit at Sobibor either.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by rollo the ganger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:59 pm

Since the Hoefle Telegram and the Korherr Report has come up in this thread I thought I'd throw out a little speculation on the two. We can be certain the Korherr Report is genuine, if not entirely accurate. However, as has been said many times before, the authenticity of the Hoefle Telegram is in question. Although there must have been at least three copies, most likely many more, of this telegram somewhere with the Germans none were found. And there seems to be no evidence as to the context in which it would have been sent. Who asked for it and why? Who wanted to know? Where's the request? Certainly the British Secret Service would have intercepted those requests. But let's assume, for arguments sake, it is genuine.

If somebody has already proposed this I don't recall seeing it but since the Korherr Report and the Hoefle Telegram were written in the same time frame as each other than most likely the Hoefle Telegram was meant to provide numbers to be passed on to Korherr for his report. Korherr may have never seen the telegram. The numbers may have been passed on to him by those who did receive it. Rather than verifying each other the Hoefle Telegram is the actual source of the information Korherr used in his report. What the Korherr Report says is from the information provided by the Hoefle Telegram. No INDEPENDENT verification of the numbers. Of course neither the telegram or the report mention actually killing people.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Huntinger » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:50 pm

rollo the ganger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:59 pm
Since the Hoefle Telegram and the Korherr Report has come up in this thread I thought I'd throw out a little speculation on the two. We can be certain the Korherr Report is genuine, if not entirely accurate. However, as has been said many times before, the authenticity of the Hoefle Telegram is in question. Although there must have been at least three copies, most likely many more, of this telegram somewhere with the Germans none were found. And there seems to be no evidence as to the context in which it would have been sent. Who asked for it and why? Who wanted to know? Where's the request? Certainly the British Secret Service would have intercepted those requests. But let's assume, for arguments sake, it is genuine.

If somebody has already proposed this I don't recall seeing it but since the Korherr Report and the Hoefle Telegram were written in the same time frame as each other than most likely the Hoefle Telegram was meant to provide numbers to be passed on to Korherr for his report. Korherr may have never seen the telegram. The numbers may have been passed on to him by those who did receive it. Rather than verifying each other the Hoefle Telegram is the actual source of the information Korherr used in his report. What the Korherr Report says is from the information provided by the Hoefle Telegram. No INDEPENDENT verification of the numbers. Of course neither the telegram or the report mention actually killing people.
Yes, I suggested it, it was a statistical census figure to establish Jew removal. These camps probably did have health and care facilities; call them hospitals if you wish. In most cases they acted as a first stop to determine the exact number of personnel, the actual labour skill requirements at which facility. Fine tuning of the transport requirements for practical purposes in War Time. It has to and must be presumed that no mass murder took place and what the logical purpose of these camps might be under our own society. To suggest mass murder is so ludicrous it is totally dismissed.
𝕸𝖆𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊 𝕾𝖈𝖍𝖆̈𝖙𝖟𝖊 𝖐𝖆𝖓𝖓 𝖒𝖆𝖓 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖐𝖆𝖚𝖋𝖊𝖓.
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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:08 am

rollo the ganger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:07 pm
Nessie wrote:There is no testimony of anyone having a shower, refreshments and sleep over at Sobibor.
There is no testimony of anyone having taken a shit at Sobibor either.
So, we should believe what there is testimony for; gassings.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:16 am

rollo the ganger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:59 pm
Since the Hoefle Telegram and the Korherr Report has come up in this thread I thought I'd throw out a little speculation on the two. We can be certain the Korherr Report is genuine, if not entirely accurate. However, as has been said many times before, the authenticity of the Hoefle Telegram is in question. Although there must have been at least three copies, most likely many more, of this telegram somewhere with the Germans none were found. And there seems to be no evidence as to the context in which it would have been sent. Who asked for it and why? Who wanted to know? Where's the request? Certainly the British Secret Service would have intercepted those requests. But let's assume, for arguments sake, it is genuine.

If somebody has already proposed this I don't recall seeing it but since the Korherr Report and the Hoefle Telegram were written in the same time frame as each other than most likely the Hoefle Telegram was meant to provide numbers to be passed on to Korherr for his report. Korherr may have never seen the telegram. The numbers may have been passed on to him by those who did receive it. Rather than verifying each other the Hoefle Telegram is the actual source of the information Korherr used in his report. What the Korherr Report says is from the information provided by the Hoefle Telegram. No INDEPENDENT verification of the numbers. Of course neither the telegram or the report mention actually killing people.
Korherr himself confirmed he was the author of the report in his name when he wrote to a newspaper in 1977 denying he knew special treatment was about killng;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korherr_Report#Post-war

The Hofle Telegram is the name given to an intercepted radio message that was decrypted and translated by the British. There is no actual telegram. The document is the British decrypted message.

Clearly the Nazi heirarchy wanted reports on the progress of the Final Solution and Hofle was tasked to gather numbers sent to the AR camps and report back. Korherr was tasked to then report on the numbers. They corroborate each other.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:18 am

Huntinger wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:50 pm
.....
Yes, I suggested it, it was a statistical census figure to establish Jew removal. These camps probably did have health and care facilities; call them hospitals if you wish. In most cases they acted as a first stop to determine the exact number of personnel, the actual labour skill requirements at which facility. Fine tuning of the transport requirements for practical purposes in War Time. It has to and must be presumed that no mass murder took place and what the logical purpose of these camps might be under our own society. To suggest mass murder is so ludicrous it is totally dismissed.
No one is suggesting mass murder, mass murder is evidenced. The unevidenced suggestion is that the AR camps were hospital facilities where only the sick were dropped off and the rest went elsewhere.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:21 am

This issue is being dodged;
Nessie wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:46 am
That does not answer the question. In 1943 where were those Jews accommodated?
There are records showing Jewish transports to the AR camps, Hofle records arrivals up to the end of 1942 and Korherr confirms that in his report early in 1943.

So, where are the c1.24 million alleged survivors being accommodated?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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