What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

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Nessie
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:01 pm

Werd wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:45 am
Out of the daily 10,000 Jews available running from May 25 to May 31,
Image
how many were disposed of in what available crematoria ovens? Do we even know for sure how many were available despite at least a few of them being under repair? How many hours a day did these available ones run and how many corpses per hour? No matter what, you still need more than one goddamn pyre outside on May 31 to dispose of anywhere from 8 to 10 thousand Hungarian Jews a day.

You also have no proof Bunker II was reactivated. That one photo is not clear enough to tell for sure if there is or isn't smoke coming from the yard of Bunker II.

You can speculate all you want on how many were gassed per gassing room, but you're avoiding the big question about the crematoria and where all the leftover Jews went for destruction since the 38 krema ovens (not including Krema IV which was down forever by 1943) were not even all available and at least SOME were down for repairs as Carlo proved with documents from the Central Construction Office of Auschwitz. Obviously outdoors. So where are they, Nessie? Saying "the ovens could cope" or "The evidence is pyres are only needed where there are either no ovens or limited ovens" is not an argument. Why? Because there are no details. It does not use specifics, math, formulas, anything that would give us a better and more thorough understanding of what happened to those thousands of Jews we know where in the camp that final week of May. You avoid specifics because your gassing and burning narrative collapses.
Stop trolling this thread with you theories about what allegedly could not be done at the camp. This thread is asking for evidence of resettlement from places such as Birkenau in May to July 1944 for Hungarian Jews.

Again, is there any evidence in the aerial photos of mass deportations back out of the camp? Yes or no?
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:02 pm

Werd wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:14 am
June deportations of Hungarian Jews.

1 - 2235 Hungarian Jews.
2 - 1928 Hungarian Jews.
3 - 3562 Hungarian Jews.
5 - 1658 Hungarian Jews.
6 - 1366 Hungarian Jews.
7 - 1417 Hungarian Jews.
8 - 543 Hungarian Jews.
9 - 559 Hungarian Jews.
10 - 166 Hungarian Jews.
11 - 329 Hungarian Jews.
12 - 92 Hungarian Jews.
13 - 332 Hungarian Jews.
14 - 663 Hungarian Jews.
15 - 1110 Hungarian Jews.
16 - 408 Hungarian Jews. 9 Italian Jews. 12 German Jews.
17 - 945 Hungarian Jews.
18 - 660 Hungarian Jews.
26 - 17 Jewish "Mischlinge"
No, June registrations of males to work at the camp. Read the link again. What happened to the rest of them?
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Werd » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:25 pm

Again, is there any evidence in the aerial photos of mass deportations back out of the camp? Yes or no?
Any aerial photos of mass extermination given the situation with the ovens? Whatever man. Okay, meet me here in Aerial photos Auschwitz-Birkenau then in since this is apparently the wrong topic.

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:38 pm

With Werd's repeated dodge of my question, I get to answer it for him and the answer is no. There is no sign of tens thousands of people in columns leaving the camp in any aerial photo.
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by 666isMONEY » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:29 pm

Image

Missing Jews in Poland found, flourish after fall of Soviet Union, Iron Curtain, fullpage ad, New York Times, 26Feb18, World Jewish Congress, Ronald S Lauder

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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:56 am

Bump for NSDAP to provide evidence that on each day of arrivals at Birkenau, those not selected to work, left the camp.
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:40 am

Continuation of discussion;

viewtopic.php?p=122798#p122798

The final evacuation of Auschwitz;

http://www.wollheim-memorial.de/en/raeu ... odesmarsch

"Between January 17 and 21, about 56,000 prisoners from the main camp, Birkenau, Monowitz, and numerous subcamps were led westward in marching columns. About 9,000 completely exhausted or seriously ill prisoners and members of the inmate staff of the hospital barracks were left behind. A small number of relatively healthy prisoners even managed to ensconce themselves in hiding places, in the hope of speedy liberation by the Red Army.
Many men, women, and children died of exhaustion or froze to death. A far greater number, however, were killed by the SS guard escorts, who shot or beat to death anyone who lagged behind. Along the primary routes of the death march, about 3,000 corpses were left behind in the province of Upper Silesia, and to this day we have no verified information about the number of those killed along the routes through Lower Silesia and the northern regions of Moravia and Bohemia. Between January 19 and 23, a great part of the marching columns—approximately 35,000 to 40,000 prisoners—reached Gliwice (Gleiwitz) and Wodzisław Śląski (Loslau), where they were crammed into railroad freight cars and transported to concentration camps deeper inside the territory of the Reich. During the transports, which in some cases were made in open freight cars, hundreds of people died of exhaustion, thirst, hunger, or cold. Estimates of the number of people who died or were murdered during the clearing of the camp complex and the death marches from Auschwitz range from 9,000 to 15,000."

We know that happened because there are witness reports, from prisoners and guards it took place. There is also records of arrivals elsewhere, the most famous being Ann Frank who went to Bergen-Belsen.

But deniers claim hundreds of thousands left Birkenau after arriving in mass transports, in particular the Hungarians who arrived in may to July 1944. But somehow, they left no evidence of their departure or arrival elsewhere.
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by NSDAP » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:33 pm

Like many of the countries in Eastern and Central Europe, Hungary had a long tradition of antisemitism, which was present not only in public discourse and political life but also among cultural elites and on the street. Hundreds of antisemitic pogroms, massacres, atrocities, and assaults occurred in Hungary during the 19th and 20th centuries.
Hungarian authorities murdered Jews on several occasions before the German occupation. More than 20,000 Jews were deported to German-occupied Ukraine by Hungarian authorities in the summer of 1941, with full knowledge of the fate that awaited them. In January 1942, nearly 1,000 Jews were murdered by the Hungarian military and gendarmerie in Újvidék (currently Novi Sad, Serbia) and its vicinity. Many Jews were also killed in the labor service by Hungarian army personnel.
The deportees were transported across the border and simply abandoned there. Many were killed by local Ukrainians. Most of the deportees ended up in Kamenets-Podolski, where Ukrainian units massacred them, along with local Jews, on August 27–30. More than 23,000 people were murdered in total in this single action, making the Kamenets-Podolski execution the first mass killing operation of over 10,000 victims in the Holocaust. In the southern region of Hungary annexed after the Axis attack on and dismantlement of Yugoslavia, Hungarian military and gendarmerie units, under the pretext of anti-partisan warfare, massacred more than 3,000 men, women, and children on January 21–23, 1942, in the city of Újvidék (today: Novi Sad, Serbia). The victims were predominantly Serbs, but approximately 700 Jews were also murdered. It seems the Nazis wanted to use them for the war effort to save them from the murderous Hungarian Nazi party (Magyar Nemzeti Szocialista Párt, the scyth cross, the arrow cross, the Hungarian National Socialist Agricultural Labourers' and Workers' Party, the Hungarian National Socialist People’s Party (HNSPP) and teh HNSP..Hungarian National Socialist Party) and Ukrainians. Jewish historians argue that the destruction of the Jewish population of Ukraine, reduced from 870,000 to 17,000, could not have been accomplished without the aid of the local population, because the Germans lacked the manpower to reach all of the communities that were annihilated, especially in the remote villages. (there is an assumption here that the Germans wanted to murder them..not so) The nationalist OUN-Bandera faction of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army "openly advocated violence against Jews", wrote Jeffrey Burds. In August 1941 at its Second Congress in Kraków OUN-B embraced anti-Semitism. "Twenty so-called 'foreign' nationalities were listed as enemies of Ukraine: Jews were first, Poles were second." On September 1, 1941, Ukrainian language newspaper Volhyn wrote: "The element that settled our cities (Jews)... must disappear completely from our cities. The Jewish problem is already in the process of being solved." The Lviv pogroms were two massacres of Jews that took place from 30 June to 2 July and 25–29 July 1941 during Operation Barbarossa. According to Yad Vashem six thousand Jews were killed primarily by rioting Ukrainian nationalists and a newly formed Ukrainian militia. The pretext for the pogrom was a rumor that the Jews were responsible for the execution of prisoners by the Soviets before their withdrawal from Lviv.
Ukrainian nationalists assisted German Security Police and the Einsatzgruppen who were just after Partisans and sadly all Juden were classed as Partisans in that location. In Korosten, the nationalists carried out the killings by themselves, same as inn Sokal. Other locations followed.
During the Ukrainian Revolution, between 1918 and 1921 a total of 1,236 violent incidents against Jews occurred in 524 towns in Ukraine. The estimates of the number of killed range between 30,000 and 60,000. Of the recorded 1,236 pogroms and excesses, 493 were carried out by Ukrainian People's Republic soldiers under command of Symon Petliura, 307 by independent Ukrainian warlords, 213 by Denikin's army, 106 by the Red Army and 32 by the Polish Army.
The NSDAP were aware of these atrocities by the Hungarian Nazi parties, the Ukrainian Militia and placed Hungarian Juden into protective custody.
437 000 Hungarian Juden arrived at Auschwitz under the protective custody of the Reich (NSDAP) the stewardship being the SS-Totenkopfverbände
Following the German occupation of Hungary in March 1944, the first two transports left on April 29 and 30. The two groups of 3800 Jews, mostly men, arrived on April 30 and May 2, respectively. During the selection, 486 men (they received tattooed ID numbers 186645 through 187130) and 616 women (with ID numbers 76385 through 76459, and 80000 through 80540) were found fit for work. The rest (2698 persons) were found unfit to work fate unknown. Over the next few weeks, those employed constructed the Birkenau ‘Jewish ramp‘.

Operation Höss started on the afternoon of May 16. On this day the first of the Jewish mass transports from Hungary arrived. The entire camp of Birkenau was immediately sealed off. Within a few hours, another transport of Hungarian Jews came. Approximately 10 thousand people were transported on the very first day And this was only the beginning. The gendarmerie districts of Kassa, Kolozsvár and Marosvásárhely kept sending the Jews of Carpatho-Ruthenia and northern Transylvania. According to Hungarian records, between May 15 and June 7, 288,333 and according to German records, 289,357 Hungarian Jews had been deported to Auschwitz–Birkenau. This was more than all Jewish and non-Jewish inmates sent to Auschwitz between June 14, 1940 and December 31, 1942, i.e., the first 31 months in the existence of the camp, or roughly the same numbers as received in the entire year of 1943. All this was accomplished in just 24 days. For the first time in the history of the camp, the head of the SS photo laboratory received permission to record Operation Höss. This was eventually collected in what became known as the Auschwitz album containing some 200 photographs. So where did the 100 000 members of that camp go to when it was evacuated? Many died of Typhus and starvation due to allied bombing, some perhaps were gassed in the red and white houses but this is unverified. It is most likely that they were sent in transit to other camps where manpower was needed. The camp could only hold 100 000 not 437 000. We say they were not murdered by us, as a deliberate policy of genocide but the topic must be discussed. It is likely many met their end in the 4 Einsatz camps but one thing is for sure, if they were not put into protective custody they would have been murdered by the Hungarians and Ukrainians.
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Nessie » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:40 am

NSDAP wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:33 pm
Like many of the countries in Eastern and Central Europe, Hungary had a long tradition of antisemitism, which was present not only in public discourse and political life but also among cultural elites and on the street. Hundreds of antisemitic pogroms, massacres, atrocities, and assaults occurred in Hungary during the 19th and 20th centuries.
Hungarian authorities murdered Jews on several occasions before the German occupation. More than 20,000 Jews were deported to German-occupied Ukraine by Hungarian authorities in the summer of 1941, with full knowledge of the fate that awaited them. In January 1942, nearly 1,000 Jews were murdered by the Hungarian military and gendarmerie in Újvidék (currently Novi Sad, Serbia) and its vicinity. Many Jews were also killed in the labor service by Hungarian army personnel.
The deportees were transported across the border and simply abandoned there. Many were killed by local Ukrainians. Most of the deportees ended up in Kamenets-Podolski, where Ukrainian units massacred them, along with local Jews, on August 27–30. More than 23,000 people were murdered in total in this single action, making the Kamenets-Podolski execution the first mass killing operation of over 10,000 victims in the Holocaust. In the southern region of Hungary annexed after the Axis attack on and dismantlement of Yugoslavia, Hungarian military and gendarmerie units, under the pretext of anti-partisan warfare, massacred more than 3,000 men, women, and children on January 21–23, 1942, in the city of Újvidék (today: Novi Sad, Serbia). The victims were predominantly Serbs, but approximately 700 Jews were also murdered. It seems the Nazis wanted to use them for the war effort to save them from the murderous Hungarian Nazi party (Magyar Nemzeti Szocialista Párt, the scyth cross, the arrow cross, the Hungarian National Socialist Agricultural Labourers' and Workers' Party, the Hungarian National Socialist People’s Party (HNSPP) and teh HNSP..Hungarian National Socialist Party) and Ukrainians. Jewish historians argue that the destruction of the Jewish population of Ukraine, reduced from 870,000 to 17,000, could not have been accomplished without the aid of the local population, because the Germans lacked the manpower to reach all of the communities that were annihilated, especially in the remote villages. (there is an assumption here that the Germans wanted to murder them..not so) The nationalist OUN-Bandera faction of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army "openly advocated violence against Jews", wrote Jeffrey Burds. In August 1941 at its Second Congress in Kraków OUN-B embraced anti-Semitism. "Twenty so-called 'foreign' nationalities were listed as enemies of Ukraine: Jews were first, Poles were second." On September 1, 1941, Ukrainian language newspaper Volhyn wrote: "The element that settled our cities (Jews)... must disappear completely from our cities. The Jewish problem is already in the process of being solved." The Lviv pogroms were two massacres of Jews that took place from 30 June to 2 July and 25–29 July 1941 during Operation Barbarossa. According to Yad Vashem six thousand Jews were killed primarily by rioting Ukrainian nationalists and a newly formed Ukrainian militia. The pretext for the pogrom was a rumor that the Jews were responsible for the execution of prisoners by the Soviets before their withdrawal from Lviv.
Ukrainian nationalists assisted German Security Police and the Einsatzgruppen who were just after Partisans and sadly all Juden were classed as Partisans in that location. In Korosten, the nationalists carried out the killings by themselves, same as inn Sokal. Other locations followed.
During the Ukrainian Revolution, between 1918 and 1921 a total of 1,236 violent incidents against Jews occurred in 524 towns in Ukraine. The estimates of the number of killed range between 30,000 and 60,000. Of the recorded 1,236 pogroms and excesses, 493 were carried out by Ukrainian People's Republic soldiers under command of Symon Petliura, 307 by independent Ukrainian warlords, 213 by Denikin's army, 106 by the Red Army and 32 by the Polish Army.
The NSDAP were aware of these atrocities by the Hungarian Nazi parties, the Ukrainian Militia and placed Hungarian Juden into protective custody.
437 000 Hungarian Juden arrived at Auschwitz under the protective custody of the Reich (NSDAP) the stewardship being the SS-Totenkopfverbände
Following the German occupation of Hungary in March 1944, the first two transports left on April 29 and 30. The two groups of 3800 Jews, mostly men, arrived on April 30 and May 2, respectively. During the selection, 486 men (they received tattooed ID numbers 186645 through 187130) and 616 women (with ID numbers 76385 through 76459, and 80000 through 80540) were found fit for work. The rest (2698 persons) were found unfit to work fate unknown. Over the next few weeks, those employed constructed the Birkenau ‘Jewish ramp‘.
It is only fate unknown for the 2698 persons if you ignore the witnesses who say they were gassed and that they disappeared inside Birkenau.
Operation Höss started on the afternoon of May 16. On this day the first of the Jewish mass transports from Hungary arrived. The entire camp of Birkenau was immediately sealed off. Within a few hours, another transport of Hungarian Jews came. Approximately 10 thousand people were transported on the very first day And this was only the beginning. The gendarmerie districts of Kassa, Kolozsvár and Marosvásárhely kept sending the Jews of Carpatho-Ruthenia and northern Transylvania. According to Hungarian records, between May 15 and June 7, 288,333 and according to German records, 289,357 Hungarian Jews had been deported to Auschwitz–Birkenau. This was more than all Jewish and non-Jewish inmates sent to Auschwitz between June 14, 1940 and December 31, 1942, i.e., the first 31 months in the existence of the camp, or roughly the same numbers as received in the entire year of 1943. All this was accomplished in just 24 days. For the first time in the history of the camp, the head of the SS photo laboratory received permission to record Operation Höss. This was eventually collected in what became known as the Auschwitz album containing some 200 photographs. So where did the 100 000 members of that camp go to when it was evacuated? Many died of Typhus and starvation due to allied bombing, some perhaps were gassed in the red and white houses but this is unverified. It is most likely that they were sent in transit to other camps where manpower was needed. The camp could only hold 100 000 not 437 000. We say they were not murdered by us, as a deliberate policy of genocide but the topic must be discussed.
There is no evidence they left Birkenau after being selected not to work. That is despite those working leaving the camp and even the presence of a photographer on certain days. The aerial photos also show no sign of people leaving the camp.

There is physical supporting evidence they were gassed in the kremas, from traces of cyanide, to holes in the roof, to cremated remains found buried nearby, to damaged oven bricks. Records of typhus deaths show lower than normal when the Hungarians were arriving. There was no major bombing of the camp. The red and white houses were razed to the ground.

Those evacuated either died en-route to other camps or are accounted for at other camps on liberation.
It is likely many met their end in the 4 Einsatz camps but one thing is for sure,
There were all closed by the end of 1943.
... if they were not put into protective custody they would have been murdered by the Hungarians and Ukrainians.
The majority of Hungarian Jews in the Budapest ghettos survived. Rural Jews faired less well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... _Holocaust

"An estimated 119,000 Jewish people were liberated in Budapest (25,000 in the small, "international" ghetto, 69,000 in the big ghetto and 25,000 hiding with false papers) and 20,000 forced laborers in the countryside. Almost all of the surviving deportees returned between May and December 1945, at least to check out the fate of their families. Their number was 116,000."
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
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Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by NSDAP » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:02 am

There only seems to be one intercept of anything suggesting the Vernichtungslager by Bletchley Park and that is the Höfle Telegram. Thousands upon thousands of intercepted communications were made regarding troop movements, yet only one mentions the Konzentrationslager: there are no more intercepts. If there was an operation going on there would be thousands of such intercepts. There is no metadata even suggesting this.
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