What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
Duke Umeroffen
Posts: 5783
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:11 pm
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Duke Umeroffen » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:00 am

It has been argued elsewhere that this thread is one of those where burden of proof is required by those positing the query. It is surely not up to any Rev to have to provide an answer. Revs are free to enter the thread or steer clear. Those who have entered it are keen to show their thoughts and ideas. That's a Good Thing. Shifting the discussion to become one of, "its your burden of proof to show that they weren't resettled, Ner, ner, ner, ner, ner, ner," does stifle debate I think. Especially as there are any amount of threads dealing with this that they weren't resettled. This is the first good, "so where did they go," thread at the new rodoh forum.

It might be expected that entry into the thread meant that an answer to the Question was in the offing. To whit, "So where did they go then?" The obvious response is to write that they went somewhere. No one seriously denies that they stayed put in their houses I hope. Every one knows that they were put on these trains for example. Trains that went eg. to T, full and then came back empty. No significant transports have been heard of in any of the areas that have been suggested by any Revisionists to support resettlement. It's not enough to speculate here, one must have the supporting evidence if one is to finally answer the Question or one may as well leave the thread.

To all intents and purposes, Revisionism has so far to my mind apparently rather failed again to satisfactorily answer the query. It is quite reasonable if somewhat perennial in nature to think the following.

No great progress yet has been made in supplying a really coherent, logical and convergent and convincing narrative explanation. An NE that is supported by certain crucial factors that MUST all be considered present if the alternative answer is to supplant what is really known. Eyewitnesses, documentation and so forth are just some of these. Those with greater reading under their belts than I may wish to intimate further on what is required.

However the question may be framed, it always requires relooking at. It will so long as Revisionism breathes just so the curious, the aghast, the knowledgeble can check denial's progress to "veritas" I guess.

I only offer these observations and additions to stimulate debate and really I welcome all debaters and readers to this thread on whatever level of knowledge they are at.
Viking; North Utsire; South Utsire; Forties; Cromarty; ; Firth; Tyne; Dogger. Fisher; German Bight; Humber; Thames *; Dover;

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:24 am
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:33 am

Been-there, I have to say that Zelda Gordon's testimony is dodgy. To call her confused is to be charitable. Nevertheless, you wrote (unaware as you were writing, it would seem, that Zelda Gordon did not claim to have been sent "FURTHER EAST") about Zelda Gordon in the context of an eastern resettlement:
If people were actually resettled FURTHER EAST, evidence of what happened to them will be in other Eastern European languages and personal records that came under SOVIET control. And we all now how open they have been since the end of WW2 with records that are witnes to their OWN crimes.
But anyway, here was "one" already provided of a Treblinka survivor: Zelda GORDON and the other ONE HUNDRED!
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... t=0#p32558

Please, can any defender of the currently accepted-H-narratives, reply to this case of these Treblinka survivors in good faith, without ridicule, insult or sarcasm.
You conflated
Treblinka survivor
with 100s of 1000s of resettled Jews, as has been pointed out. And you also wrote that
the question being answered actually was to supply "an eyewitness or two among the transitted, the administrators and the staff members of this ressettlement program who could give testimony regarding the details of this "resettlement.".
That was done. Zelda GORDON and the other ONE HUNDRED passed through a 'transit camp' and ended up somewhere else.
Of course, that Gordon and 100 others were sent through a camp to another camp is neither evidence of a resettlement program - certainly not one involving 100s of 1000s of Jews - nor that the camp they were sent on from was a "transit camp."

But what I am also struggling with is this: In the OP, "Revs" were asked not whether inmates were sometimes shipped this way or that - as is well documented that some number were - but
According to Revisionism, these Jews were on their way to the east i.e the occupied Soviet Union. What evidence is there that so many hundreds of thousands of Jews all ended up in the east?
The evidence requested was for 100s of 1000s of Jews sent east - not 100 Jews, or whatever other small number of exceptions we can list, sent to various points.

So, taking that you believe Zelda Gordon's testimony about where she was taken but not what happened in each place (e.g., gas chambers in Treblinka), what I want to know is how in your opinion the shipment of Gordon and 100 other young girls from Treblinka south to Majdanek and eventually, according to her (http://www.1939club.com/LiberationStories.htm), west to Bergen-Belsen proves a thing about resettlement of Jews to the East, as you also described the program of resettlement in the Wannsee thread.

I wonder how, in your opinion, the shipment of 100 Jews from Treblinka to the KL system supports a thesis that 100s of 1000s of Jews were resettled into areas in Russia, as Buehler described the policy of the Germans at the IMT.

I wonder how, by your accounting, 100 Jews shipped anywhere explains the fates of 100s of 1000s of Jews.

And I wonder why you think that movement of Jews amongst the various Nazi camps is news and thus a challenge to the evidence that the AR camps were designed, built, and used as death centers. Here is what Tomas Kranz wrote about this, in The Extermination of Jews at Majdanek Concentration Camp (2010) (page 24):
On 28 February [1943], 104 Jewish women were transferred from the death camp in Treblinka, to which they had originally been deported from Bialystok and Grodno. Similar cases occurred in March.
That is a clear statement, I think, and it shows that the lead historian of the Majdanek camp has indeed documented the very transport on which Gordon seems to claim she left Treblinka. (I also wonder, in the same vein, if you've ever heard of Jules Schelvis - http://www.sobiborinterviews.nl/en/nede ... s-schelvis; Schelvis is a well-known survivor of Sobibor, whose wrote best study of the camp, and who has explained that, after his deportation to Sobibor, he was one of a few of those arriving selected for labor at the work-camp Dorohucza. Kranz and Schelvis explain that a small number of other Dutch Jews sent to Sobibor were transferred from the death camp to Majdanek as well.) How, in any event, is "discovery" of a transport known to historians, like the Grodno-Bialystok transport discussed by Kranz, a challenge to historians' knowledge?

FP Berg includes this bit of dissembling and presumptuous certitude on his website:
Treblinka was indeed a “transit camp” as revisionists have always claimed and NOT an extermination camp.  Many people, including Jews, arrived from various places, and after a brief stay—which included a shower, a medical exam, a change into clean lice-free clothes, and a meal—departed for other places such as Lublin and Maidanek to the south where they worked like normal people usually do, even during wartime.
http://nazigassings.com/

This description, despite acknowledging Majdanek as a destination (but prettifying that camp beyond recognition), is a thorough-going deception: a very small number of Jews sent to the AR camps were selected for labor - some within the camps themselves, some for other camps under Nazi control. This shuffling of prisoners does not a resettlement program make. And a greater number of prisoners were transferred out of Auschwitz to other labor sites, but in neither case does this fact change the larger purpose and use of the camp. And, to the point of this thread, transfers of 100s or even 1000s Jews from death camps to other camps don't provide evidence of a "resettlement program" to the East.

Note: Gordon's videotaped description, including her account of her brief time in Treblinka and how the Majdanek transfer came about, is very confused and not a good source, IMHO. That said, Kranz has discussed such a transport at roughly the same time in winter 1943.

Note to Duke: Actually, since "Revs," among them Mattogno, insist on a resettlement having occurred, and people like Berg claim many people besides Jews passing through Treblinka to be sent happily along for new jobs, the burden is on them to explain themselves and provide evidence for their claims. Of course, as you observe, "Revs" are free to dodge - but, for any serious and good-faith discussion to occur, people advancing a claim, like resettlement, have the burden of explaining it. So many questions put to "Revs" and challenges to their claims ignored, passed over, sidestepped . . .

---------------
Edits: effing typos.
Last edited by Statistical Mechanic on Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:10 am, edited 5 times in total.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

User avatar
Joe Future
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 2:17 am
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Joe Future » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:34 am

This was my understanding too. Evidence for their claims.

This thread is a good one, lets keep the level of robust debate and discussion with supporting argumentation up as befits a professional HGD&D forum.

Thanks!
That's not a semi colon, that's a colon!

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8455
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by been-there » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:45 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:Here is what Tomas Kranz wrote about this, in The Extermination of Jews at Majdanek Concentration Camp (2010) (page 24):
On 28.2.1943, 104 Jewish women were transferred from the death camp in Treblinka, to which they had originally been deported from Bialystok and Grodno. Similar cases occurred in March.
That is a clear statement, I think, and it shows that the lead historian of the Majdanek camp has indeed documented the very transport on which Gordon seems to claim she left Treblinka.
Thanks for this.
Kranz is the head of the research department of the Majdanek Memorial Institution.
In 2005 he declared that the number of victims of that camp was 78,000 — that was considerably less than previous figures given.
In 1945 a Polish-Soviet commission stated that approximately 1.5 million people had allegedly died there.
In 1948, official Polish history brought this figure down to 360,000
In 1992 the total came down to 235,000 victims.
If we accept Kranz's 2005 figures of 78,000, the question naturally arises: 'where did all these other 1,265,000 go, then?'
This is another way of looking at the question which forms the title of this thread? Is it not?
I.e. Where did these missing one and a quarter million Jews go? What happened to them IF THEY WEREN'T 'SYSTEMATICALLY' EXTERMINATED at MAJDANEK, as was originally claimed?

The same can be asked of the missing millions from PREVIOUS Auschwitz figures.
What is the official answer?
Isn't it that they never existed? So were never missing? Were never gassed?

This is NOT to deny that there were transportations of Jews. It is to point out that these advances in understanding have ONLY been possible BECAUSE of the brave pioneering work by people such as Rassinier, Faurisson, Zündel, Butz, etc., and our very own Fritz Berg. Yet these heros who have exposed the mind-control and indoctrination we have all been heir to are STILL today regarded as pariahs. That was their 'reward'.
Do you see where I am trying to take this, where this line of thought is going?

Just as governments didn't want to know what really happened to Saddam's WMD (which America had given him in the first place and which we knew he had destroyed), instead WE insisted he show us where these non-existent weapons were or we threatened we would invade.
But... :o
HOW can someone prove they don't have something, that they don't have?
Its an obvious logical impossibility.
Yet the whole world's governments and media went along with the fallacy.
I myself watched with the growing awareness that we live in a sick society that has become deluded by its own rhetoric. 'The Emperor's new clothes' syndrome.

Just so do I see the question of this thread as partially of the same ilk. (N.b. I said 'partially')
On the face of it there only appears to be two alternatives:
1. either those people were relocated somewhere,
or
2. they were exterminated somehow.

I wonder though if there are other alternative explanations:

3. a massaging of the figures.
I have read that in many cases Jewish populations have been counted twice to reach an inflated figure of missing persons. If this is so, these numbers of missing persons never existed, so will never be found: not there names in emigration records, nor there names in meticulous KL log books, nor even their bones in excavated alleged burial spots.

4. deaths from epidemics and hardship.
These deaths are not denied by anyone. Erm... except ironically by ill-informed holocaust true-believers, who think everyone was gassed, and to whom mentioning mass deaths affecting ALL camp inmates (including guards and other staff) by typhus, etc, is a form of 'holocaust denial'.

5. emigrations with name changes.
The number of Jews who relocated after the war and changed their names is a topic that I have not seen researched in any detail. Has it? We recently discussed the case of Lili from Hungary. Where did Lili Meier go? As far as I can tell she went to Miami as Mrs. Zelmanovic and then morphed into Lily Jacob. Her name is sometimes Lily Jacob or Jakob. Sometimes Lili Meier. Sometimes Zelmanovic.
Same with Joseph G. Burg or is it Ginzberg? The Jewish witness in the Zundel trials.

6. very young children were adopted and 'Germanised'
This is also a topic I have seen very little detail about. Presumably because it goes against the currently accepted 'holocaust' narratives.

7. they were transported to the Soviet Union where some died some survived
and documentary evidence of this is still not released by the Soviets. (See Henryk Tauber's brother) (Thanks to Ilol'd)

8. massacres of Jews by other forces in Eastern Europe.
This has been detailed in research by people such as Keith Lowe.
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 506#p32957
I accept that the testimony of Zelda GORDON is unreliable and problematical. But this is precisely the problem with ALL the eye-witness testimony from Zelda Gordon, to Lili Jakob, to Adolf Eichmann, right back to Rudolph Höss and the rest.
Which is EXACTLY why we need to open this whole topic up to rigorous, forensic, empirical research.
And yet that is precisely what is currently outlawed, forbidden, demonised, which demonstrates imo the deceit and hypocrisy around this whole topic.
Repeatedly framing this topic in the context of a contested premise is a variation of a strawman argument. As has been shown previously some people were 'resettled' the other way from the East to the West. That also does not fit either the 'resettle them in the East' paradigm, NOR the 'exterminate them under the guise of a resettle them in the East' paradigm.
We have to bear in mind that the course of the war did NOT go as was planned for the Axis countries.
Repeatedly parsing this down in terms of a 'resettlement plan' that was drawn up when the war was going well for them, obviously will not fit.

So to decide this one way or the other will require forensic research.
- Research into the accuracy of the currently accepted demographics.
- Research into the possibility of the actual practicality of killing so many people in gas chambers in the areas stipulated in the time scale alleged, with the facilities and chemicals alleged.
- Research into the alleged burial places of the alleged numbers of victims.
At the moment NONE of this is even permitted.
As we all know, those who have done such research have been attacked personally, their careers ruined, their lives disrupted, their credibibility undermined.http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... =90#p33179
Now regarding the documentary evidence of train transportations. I readily confess those areas where I am not well read or knowledgeable. This is another one of those areas.
Wasn't the guage of rail-track different between Poland and the Soviet territories? If so, it seems obvious to me that trains will go back West empty.
And if so, I still do not see how this is evidence of end-of-the-line extermination camps.
That people who have studied the topic at University level do regard this as such, can have two reasons:
i.) there is an aspect of this I am unaware of, (quite probable).
ii.) "What beautiful cloth, your Majesty. It really suits you Sir." ('The Emperor's new clothes' syndrome.)

ImageImageImage

P.S. I have repeated my previous posts because my position remains unchanged, and in spite of replies, I consider remains fundamentally unaddressed and unrefuted.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:24 am
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:18 am

been-there wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Here is what Tomas Kranz wrote about this, in The Extermination of Jews at Majdanek Concentration Camp (2010) (page 24):
On 28.2.1943, 104 Jewish women were transferred from the death camp in Treblinka, to which they had originally been deported from Bialystok and Grodno. Similar cases occurred in March.
That is a clear statement, I think, and it shows that the lead historian of the Majdanek camp has indeed documented the very transport on which Gordon seems to claim she left Treblinka.
Thanks for this.
Kranz is the head of the research department of the Majdanek Memorial Institution.
I know. That's why I called him the "lead" historian for the camp.
been-there wrote:In 2005 he declared that the number of victims of that camp was 78,000 — that was considerably less than previous figures given.
In 1945 a Polish-Soviet commission stated that approximately 1.5 million people had allegedly died there.
In 1948, official Polish history brought this figure down to 360,000
In 1992 the total came down to 235,000 victims.
If we accept Kranz's 2005 figures of 78,000, the question naturally arises: 'where did all these other 1,265,000 go, then?'
No, it doesn't. It raises the question why there was an overestimate previously. Searching for Majdanek, I found this previous thread: http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=577
been-there wrote:This is another way of looking at the question which forms the title of this thread? Is it not?
Not remotely. Please try sticking to the topic at hand.
been-there wrote:I.e. Where did these missing one and a quarter million Jews go? What happened to them IF THEY WEREN'T 'SYSTEMATICALLY' EXTERMINATED at MAJDANEK, as was originally claimed?
As the linked thread makes clear, Hilberg's estimate of 5.1 million Jews dead had Majdanek murders in the 50,000 range. So there is no problem.
been-there wrote:The same can be asked of the missing millions from PREVIOUS Auschwitz figures.
Only if you think the general estimate of 5-6 million Jewish deaths was arrived at by adding 4 million to 1.3 million to . . . which it wasn't. Please, this has been done to death. It even garnered 6th spot on Denier Bullshit Bingo.

Here's an idea: you tell me which historians have written that between 5-6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust - and used the figure of 4 million Jews for the Auschwitz death toll.
been-there wrote:This is NOT to deny that there were transportations of Jews. It is to point out that these advances in understanding have ONLY been possible BECAUSE of the brave pioneering work by people such as Rassinier, Faurisson, Zündel, Butz, etc., and our very own Fritz Berg. Yet these heros who have exposed the mind-control and indoctrination we have all been heir to are STILL today regarded as pariahs. That was their 'reward'.
Do you see where I am trying to take this, where this line of thought is going?
Yes, you are making unsupported claims again and trying to divert more and more from what was asked in the OP and in subsequent posts, which questions you keep ignoring.

You now write that "there were transportations of Jews." In keeping, then, with the topic, please tell us about the "transportations of Jews" from Warsaw and Lodz, as you were earlier asked to do.
been-there wrote:Just as governments didn't want to know what really happened to Saddam's WMD (which America had given him in the first place and which we knew he had destroyed), instead WE insisted he show us where these non-existent weapons were or we threatened we would invade.
See, diverting, as I said.
been-there wrote:Just so do I see the question of this thread as partially of the same ilk. (N.b. I said 'partially')
It seems you're frustrated at having no useful ideas and no knowledge that would help you respond to the OP. So I can see why you dismiss the question. But any history of the time that has any credibility will have to deal with the question asked in the OP and questions I asked you about what became of the Jewish population in cities like Warsaw and Lodz. Dismissing the problem is not an answer. Please don't repeat the assumptions that you already wildly threw out and have been unable to explain since tossing them out, ok?
been-there wrote:3. a massaging of the figures.
I have read that in many cases Jewish populations have been counted twice to reach an inflated figure of missing persons. If this is so, these numbers of missing persons never existed, so will never be found: not there names in emigration records, nor there names in meticulous KL log books, nor even their bones in excavated alleged burial spots.

4. deaths from epidemics and hardship.
These deaths are not denied by anyone. Erm... except ironically by ill-informed holocaust true-believers, who think everyone was gassed, and to whom mentioning mass deaths affecting ALL camp inmates (including guards and other staff) by typhus, etc, is a form of 'holocaust denial'.

5. emigrations with name changes.
The number of Jews who relocated after the war and changed their names is a topic that I have not seen researched in any detail. Has it? We recently discussed the case of Lili from Hungary. Where did Lili Meier go? As far as I can tell she went to Miami as Mrs. Zelmanovic and then morphed into Lily Jacob. Her name is sometimes Lily Jacob or Jakob. Sometimes Lili Meier. Sometimes Zelmanovic.
Same with Joseph G. Burg or is it Ginzberg? The Jewish witness in the Zundel trials.

6. very young children were adopted and 'Germanised'
This is also a topic I have seen very little detail about. Presumably because it goes against the currently accepted 'holocaust' narratives.

7. they were transported to the Soviet Union where some died some survived
and documentary evidence of this is still not released by the Soviets. (See Henryk Tauber's brother) (Thanks to Ilol'd)

8. massacres of Jews by other forces in Eastern Europe.
This has been detailed in research by people such as Keith Lowe.
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 506#p32957
Whoopsie, you actually went ahead and re-posted your points despite that they've been challenged by a number of us in this thread! Wow. Just to take one example, your number 6, so impossible was that bit of wishful thinking, and so damaging was the challenge posted to it, that one of your cohorts tried to help you reframe it. LOL.
been-there wrote:So to decide this one way or the other will require forensic research.
Nonsense. It is clear that you aren't able to discuss concrete cases, which have good documentation, like Lodz and Warsaw, now you're just tossing about new distractions. You've been asked to explain the deportations of Jews and where they were deported to - during the war - and forensic evidence isn't needed for you to reply.
been-there wrote:Research into the possibility of the actual practicality of killing so many people in gas chambers in the areas stipulated in the time scale alleged, with the facilities and chemicals alleged.
Again, the question in this thread isn't to have you spin up another critique of the Final Solution but to give you an opportunity to write your own history.

Unfortunately for your dodging, there are German documents that discuss the number of Jews "sifted" in the camps of the General-Gouvernement during this period (one of these also mentions the Warthegau) - those prepared by statistician Korherr (we've discussed this topic before in a different context, which was the cleansing of the term Sonderbehandlung) and the Hoefle telegram. The reports by Korherr put it that by the end of 1942
4. Transportation of Jews from the eastern provinces to the Russian East: ...... 1 449 692 Jews
The following numbers were sifted
through the camps in the Generalgouvernement ...... 1 274 166 Jews
through the camps in the Warthegau ...... 145 301 Jews
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... rherr.html The radiogram sent by Hoefle gave a total number coming to the GG camps of, uh oh, 1,274,166 http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... egram.html Postwar name changes, wishful thinking about inflated population, Germanization of Jewish children, thought-crime legislation, Zelda Gordon, epidemics, WMDs in Iraq - none of your diversionary efforts or wild guesses enter into explaining these two documents. At the very least, they give you by end of 1942 the need to explain what was going on with 1.2 million Jews in the GG. And another almost 150,000 in the Warthegau. Leaving aside Birkenau and the open-air shootings.

Please, no more dodging and diverting: try to focus on the issue and give a direct, supported reply.
been-there wrote:I accept that the testimony of Zelda GORDON is unreliable and problematical. But this is precisely the problem with ALL the eye-witness testimony from Zelda Gordon, to Lili Jakob, to Adolf Eichmann, right back to Rudolph Höss and the rest.
No, it isn't. We're back to your gross misunderstanding of convergence - the reason to dismiss Gordon's testimony isn't that all witnesses make stuff up - it is because her testimony stands out for against other evidence from independent sources. Your misunderstanding of this fundamental point, while heartfelt, consigns your arguments to the category of irrelevancy and "so what."
been-there wrote:P.S. I have repeated my previous posts because my position remains unchanged, and in spite of replies, I consider remains fundamentally unaddressed and unrefuted.
But what is your position? And why, in not changing it, do you refuse to tackle the objections that have been raised regarding your assumptions and wild-ass guesses? Germanization of Jewish children! LOL. Repeating what has been met with objections and questions, without even acknowledging those objections and questions, is really not something to crow about: it comes across as dodging. The questions and objections, of course, remain, as they are undealt with, no matter how stubbornly you cling to your improbably assumptions.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

User avatar
been-there
Propositions Moderator
Posts: 8455
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:59 am
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by been-there » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:31 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:...the reason to dismiss Gordon's testimony ...is because her testimony stands out for against other evidence from independent sources. Your misunderstanding of this fundamental point...
But you were the one who provided the reference from Tomas Kranz confirming her testimony??!
So doesn't the 'expert' Kranz's research show that Gordon's testimony does NOT stand out against other evidence from independent sources?

If on the contrary, Gordon's testimony is supported, what is the explanation for her and one hundred others being moved out alive from Treblinka. I am genuinely asking.
If anyone has answered before, I missed it so may I request they post just the answer to this question alone.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Repeating what has been met with objections and questions, without even acknowledging those objections and questions, ...comes across as dodging. The questions and objections, of course, remain, as they are undealt with,
I stopped reading those replies. That was as a result of replys repeatedly starting with what I saw as predominantly strawman misrepresentation together with so much irrelevant ad hominem.

So... If any one here has reputable, verifiable, credible information (not opinion) that contradicts and refutes what I have 'suggested', then just post it up. I will be interested to read it. I just ask that people do so without all the personal snide attacks and unpleasant, uncivil remarks.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:24 am
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:43 pm

been-there wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:...the reason to dismiss Gordon's testimony ...is because her testimony stands out for against other evidence from independent sources. Your misunderstanding of this fundamental point...
But you were the one who provided the reference from Tomas Kranz confirming her testimony??!
So doesn't the 'expert' Kranz's research show that Gordon's testimony does NOT stand out against other evidence from independent sources?

If on the contrary, Gordon's testimony is supported, what is the explanation for her and one hundred others being moved out alive from Treblinka. I am genuinely asking.
If anyone has answered before, I missed it so may I request they post just the answer to this question alone.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Repeating what has been met with objections and questions, without even acknowledging those objections and questions, ...comes across as dodging. The questions and objections, of course, remain, as they are undealt with,
I stopped reading those replies. That was as a result of replys repeatedly starting with what I saw as predominantly strawman misrepresentation together with so much irrelevant ad hominem.

So... If any one here has reputable, verifiable, credible information (not opinion) that contradicts and refutes what I have 'suggested', then just post it up. I will be interested to read it. I just ask that people do so without all the personal snide attacks and unpleasant, uncivil remarks.
not able to reply to all this due to my schedule today so I will leave it for this evening except to point out the obvious: you claimed earlier that your magic points stand unrefuted but now you admit to not having read the challenges to them: brilliant , and I wonder if you can understand how claiming no one's challenged your posts when you haven't read the challenges undermines both your certitude and your argument?

"I stopped reading those replies"!!!
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:24 am
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:47 pm

Note: you continue to focus on personal issues at the expense of substantive points raised such as Korherr's reports and the Hoefle telegram.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

User avatar
Bernard
Posts: 3462
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:51 pm
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Bernard » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:58 pm

been-there wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote:...the reason to dismiss Gordon's testimony ...is because her testimony stands out for against other evidence from independent sources. Your misunderstanding of this fundamental point...
But you were the one who provided the reference from Tomas Kranz confirming her testimony??!
So doesn't the 'expert' Kranz's research show that Gordon's testimony does NOT stand out against other evidence from independent sources?

If on the contrary, Gordon's testimony is supported, what is the explanation for her and one hundred others being moved out alive from Treblinka. I am genuinely asking.
If anyone has answered before, I missed it so may I request they post just the answer to this question alone.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Repeating what has been met with objections and questions, without even acknowledging those objections and questions, ...comes across as dodging. The questions and objections, of course, remain, as they are undealt with,
I stopped reading those replies. That was as a result of replys repeatedly starting with what I saw as predominantly strawman misrepresentation together with so much irrelevant ad hominem.

So... If any one here has reputable, verifiable, credible information (not opinion) that contradicts and refutes what I have 'suggested', then just post it up. I will be interested to read it. I just ask that people do so without all the personal snide attacks and unpleasant, uncivil remarks.
been-there is correct in observing that the transport of 100 women from Treblinka to Maidanek in 1943, involving Jews from Grodno, is in fact, a documented episode in the Holocaust narrative. This doesn't mean that ZG's testimony is not without some questional points - crematorium chimneys is not part of the Treblinka narrative - but one can easily envision a narrative that is comprised of an essential truth but embodies some degree of embellishment and distortion. The fact that Kranz documents the Treblinka to Maidanek transport is utter proof that been-there's previous contention that Zelda Gordon's story supports the transit camp theory is complete nonsense.

Rather than admit that his poker hand now consists of nothing but one joker and a few unmatched 2s, 5s and 7s, been there launches into a tangential, meaningless and discredited rant about Maidanek's lowering death figures - a meme that, as all of been-there's gambits (hilarious how been-there accuses others of mindless adherence to orthodoxy) is a core piece of sillyness that revs regurgitate even as Stat Mack corrects them that inflated Maidanek figures were never part of the Holocaust demographics embraced by serious scholars such as Hilberg.

Typically, been-there is left with nothing, not a shred of evidence, and not one eyewitness that contradicts the Holocaust narrative.
Entertaining how been-there disavows ALL eyewitness testimony (a position so insipid as to boggle the mind) but leaps about like an excited puppy on Ritalin with Zelda Gordon's testimony :lol: Incidently, the idea that no eyewitnesses are ever to be believed is not even been-there's, but a standard ploy with almost all revs. Thus my theory that been-there, rather than "thinking for himself" simply vacuums up the cliches and pratfalls of his revisionist fellow believers.

User avatar
Statistical Mechanic
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:24 am
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
Contact:

Re: What happened to the "resettled" Jews?

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:01 pm

Quickly then re Gordon testimony;- she places the transport of the 100 in the wrong month (did she hear about it and report something she heard?); her descriptions of the arrival and killing process are outliers. Finally her account of how the 100+ came to be sent to Majdanek doesn't match testimony I am familiar with and is internally inconsistent. Thus dubious.

Selections like the ones described by Krantz were for labor squads.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests