'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:53 pm

been-there wrote:
Charles Traynor wrote: Used objectively Grese’s testimony actually tells us a very different story about conditions at Auschwitz than the one Bernard and SM are currently attempting to peddle here.
Major CRANFIELD:

How did the prisoners behave?

— In the beginning when there were smaller numbers of them and they had sufficient to eat they were quite all right. Later, on when I had twenty to thirty thousand they behaved like animals, when food was a bit more scarce. Then at food distribution when people carried the food from the kitchen to the blocks, at nearly every corner there were 20 or 30 people who waited to pounce upon them and take the food away. With regard to sanitary conditions, in the beginning it was quite all right, but later on when the camp was over-crowded wherever you went it was just as if the prisoners thought that any place was good enough for a latrine, and the proper latrines were ruined by throwing all sorts of stuff into them, and then they simply ceased to function.
All Jewish “survivors” boast about how good they were at organising (stealing) when they were in the camps. The truth is that those who stole from the cookhouses were actually stealing food from the mouths of fellow prisoners. By enforcing strict discipline which may have occasionally included the beating of prisoners Irma Grese was actually helping to save the lives of Jews.
Then and later, internees were reluctant to accept that one of the main causes of death at Belsen was the hoarding of food by prisoners themselves...
After Day Break, Ben Shephard, pp.195-196
RIP Irma Grese.
Thanks for this Mr. T. A welcome breath of sanity to a subject that I am increasingly seeing evokes some quite insane reactions and twists of logic. And thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.
By insane reactions and twists of logic, been-there means all the points that he can not acknowledge and respond to, such as Mulka's confession, and the self serving exculpatory BS that Nazi war criminal, Irma Grese slobbered to no avail in court. So what have we so far, an admission that Grese beat prisoners without authority, that she participated in the selection process to murder innocent victims, but that her hanging was a "LYNCHING?" Are we back on topic?

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Charles Traynor
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Charles Traynor » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:52 pm

Bernard wrote:Fish, do you follow these threads and actually read what was posted? In this thread we have established via the testimony of Rudolf Hoess's adjutant, Robt Mulka, that everyone on staff at Auschwitz understood unequivocally that sonderbehandlung meant death/murder/extetrmination.
You have established nothing. I prefer to work systematically and will not become involved in a discussion on the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial until I have finished dealing with the subject of the OP. My first post in this thread was just to set some context. Tomorrow my defence of Fräulein Grese will begin in earnest.
Kitty Hart-Moxon (1998): "Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."

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Charles Traynor
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Charles Traynor » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:00 pm

been-there wrote:And thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.
It was my pleasure. This is an interesting subject and one that has the potential to be very embarrassing for the exterminationists. Hence the attempts to lure us off topic.
Kitty Hart-Moxon (1998): "Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:42 pm

Charles Traynor wrote:
been-there wrote:And thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.
It was my pleasure. This is an interesting subject and one that has the potential to be very embarrassing for the exterminationists. Hence the attempts to lure us off topic.
And just how - as we await humble pie AND systematic embarrassment - is someone's bringing in relevant testimony about conditions and events in Auschwitz, to place Grese's "work" there in context, luring people off topic? Just how is another defendant's testimony about the meaning of Sonderbehandlung, which Grese also testified about, off topic?

Geez, you guys sure have a lot you want to hide!
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:00 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Charles Traynor wrote:
been-there wrote:And thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.
It was my pleasure. This is an interesting subject and one that has the potential to be very embarrassing for the exterminationists. Hence the attempts to lure us off topic.
And just how - as we await humble pie AND systematic embarrassment - is someone's bringing in relevant testimony about conditions and events in Auschwitz, to place Grese's "work" there in context, luring people off topic? Just how is another defendant's testimony about the meaning of Sonderbehandlung, which Grese also testified about, off topic?

Geez, you guys sure have a lot you want to hide!
Of course they want to consider Grese outside of the context of everything that is known about Auschwitz. Irma Grese was as putrid a human being as creation has ever vomited. She is infamous in the manner of any sociopathic murderer, and is reknowned across the planet as belonging with Charles Manson, Albert Fish, Son of Sam and all the other horror house abominations that fuel our collective nightmares.

One imagines that Satan might choose her for the task of raping Ted Bundy in hell. The idea that there is something admirable or heroic about Irma Grese stems from the desperate need that our resident trolls have for attention.

Mulka's testimony provides even more certainty that Grese knowingly chose victims for the gas chambers, and reports indicate that she did this with great zeal. I expect Fish and been-there to do nothing more than argue that every word that Grese uttered on the stand must be believed.

It should be a laugh if either of these known escape artists even show up.

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:03 am

Found some bad shit about Grese, like
Gertrude Diament, a Jewess from Czechoslovakia, stated that during 1942 she had seen Volkenrath make selections ; she would give orders that prisoners be loaded on to lorries and transported to the gas chamber. Grese was also responsible for selecting victims for the gas chambers at Auschwitz. Grese, at both Auschwitz and Belsen, when in charge of working parties, beat women with sticks and when they fell to the ground she kicked them as hard as she could with her heavy boots. She frequently caused blood to flow and in the deponent’s opinion many of the people she injured were likely to die from such injuries, but she had no direct evidence of such deaths. Lobauer was not a member of the S.S. but a prisoner at Belsen. Diament had seen her savagely beating women and girls with a stick. Her ill-treatment was worse than that of the S.S. women. Many victims collapsed but the deponent had no evidence that they died. Lobauer was in charge of working parties under Grese.
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/belsen3.htm

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:14 am

Gitla Dunkleman, a Polish Jewess, said that Grese was the chief S.S. woman and that she had seen her commit many acts of brutality. When paraded before her at roll-calls the deponent had seen her strike and kick women. She was the worst of the S.S. women.
So, the narrative, for people who are slow to follow is this: Irma Grese admitted that women were forced to parade naked for selections before herself and Dr Mengele (for the gas chambers as Ms Grese freely testified), but "not like cattle." Got that right? Many of these women who paraded naked alleged that Grese made this experience somewhat less pleasant and enjoyable by beating them. Here she gets a vote for "worst of the S.S. women."

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:21 am

Klara Lobowitz, a Czech, said that Grese was in charge of roll-calls and that she made internees go on their knees for hours and hold stones above their heads, and that she kicked people on the ground. Her roll-calls took place twice a day and lasted two hours and more often three or four hours. If a mistake was made in counting the prisoners were made to stand until the mistake was found. No time was allowed for food and people used to faint as a result. Against the accused she also alleged beating with a rubber truncheon and kicking. Internees were not allowed to carry anything in their pockets and Grese would often stop and search internees and beat them un-mercifully if she found anything. The deponent had often seen the accused with Dr. Mengele selecting people for the gas chamber and for forced labour in Germany.
Yes, I know, "liewitnesses."

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:27 am

Katherine Neiger, a Czechoslovak Jewess, said that Grese was the chief S.S. woman at Auschwitz ; she had roll-calls lasting six hours, and during the time she made internees hold their hands above their heads each holding a large stone. She put on gloves before beating people with her fists.
Seems like there is some sort of pattern about Irma's behavior. Of course, the witnesses are just Jews.

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:10 am

Luba Triszinska, a Russian Jewess, said that when woman internees gathering herbs fell behind Grese set her dog on them. Lobauer selected people for working parties, and beat them if she found vegetables on them. She had seen both Lobauer and Grese outside Block 25 chasing into the lorries people selected for the gas chamber
OK, we know that Grese didn't have a dog, because she said she didn't. That's good enough for been-there!

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