'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:58 pm

been-there wrote:
...they had gone to another camp in Germany for working purposes or for special treatment, which I thought was the gas chamber. I then put in my strength book either so many for transfer to Germany to another camp, or so many for S.B. (Sonder Behandlung). It was well known to the whole camp that S. B. meant the gas chamber.

Q. Were you told anything about the gas chamber by your senior officers?

Irma. "No, the prisoners told me about it."
So the whole camp knew something though no-one ever saw it. And they got the info from the prisoners, who if it was a top secret couldn't have known.
C'mon. Not even Governor Hans Frank KNEW about it.
And when Cavendish-Bentinck the British head of Psychological Warfare Cavendish-Bentinck got news from the Polish resistance of gas chambers he recognised the report as an echo of his own propaganda. Great evidence. :roll:
What else have we got. Is that it. Testimonials are not enough. Especially when they can be proven to be flawed, false, self-contradictory, include physically impossiblities, etc., etc.
been-there
no one ever saw it
Oooooooooooooooooops!!!!! been-there is caught in another mega gaff :lol:
Apparently Hans Munch saw it. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/js ... Munch.html

In fact, according to Robt Lifton's well known work on Nazi doctors, physicians were reqiuired to be at all Auschwitz gassings, and to sign forms attesting to their presense. Dr Munch also testified that the Nazi medical staff freely discussed the gassings among themselves and it is rather likely, that working intimately with Doc Mengele, that Ms Grese knew full well what was going on at Auschwitz without depending on prisoners for so called "rumors."

Does been-there really take Irma's exculpatory bs as having some sort of literal validity? Amazing!

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:05 pm

Bernard wrote:Does been-there really take Irma's exculpatory bs as having some sort of literal validity? Amazing!
As Balsamo noted, been-there is quite selective, and inconsistent, about testimony he will pay attention to. If it comes out of the mouth of a Nazi leader or a camp guard or an SS officer, he's all for it. Unless it doesn't match his preconceptions. But from prisoners and victims: not so much. Funny thing, that.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:58 am

Statistical Mechanic wrote:
Bernard wrote:Does been-there really take Irma's exculpatory bs as having some sort of literal validity? Amazing!
As Balsamo noted, been-there is quite selective, and inconsistent, about testimony he will pay attention to. If it comes out of the mouth of a Nazi leader or a camp guard or an SS officer, he's all for it. Unless it doesn't match his preconceptions. But from prisoners and victims: not so much. Funny thing, that.
Well, been-there has quite an aversion to the testimony of camp guards judging from the Reinhardt Perp testimony thread. He was only willing to deal with the testimony of one of the 20 that I posted, Pfannenstiel, and only to confabulate some sort of delusion about a recantation.

IIRC, been-there had some other gambit about Candid Camera and conformity in order to dismiss the entire body of perpetrator testimony. It would seem that been-there simply dismisses all testimony that doesn't support his religious faith, and swallows any testimony, no matter how flimsy, that somehow alludes to his orthodoxy. I mean, seriously, can anyone imagine that Grese's only information about gas chambers came from the prisoners, and that she believed it without corroboration from her superiors?

Its not like Grese wished to present herself to the court as being far removed from the lethal structure and the powers of murderous authority. Its not as though Grese had an interest in having the court believe that she was a low level functionary with no power or authority. So why should been-there question Grese's testimony or imagine it to be exculpatory and utterly suspect?

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:09 am

Well, he quotes perps whenever they deny their own participation or make dubious statements to try to get off the hook or salvage some shred of self-respect . . .
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by been-there » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:53 am

Sonder behandling 1 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Frank family - 'holocaust' STARS:
Anne Frank
Most know that Anne Frank died at the age of 15 in the Bergen-Belsen recovery camp (Erholungslager) in March 1945, just two weeks before the camp was liberated. What many do not know is that Anne Frank died of typhus NOT Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment.

Margot Frank
Margot (Anne's sister) died during a typhus epidemic with her sister shortly before the end of the war in Bergen-Belsen, where they had been sent for what the Auschwitz inmates told Irma Grese was the alleged Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment.

- Otto Frank
Otto (Anne's father) died of lung cancer on 19th August 1980 in Basel. He arrived in Auschwitz, during September 1945. After being 'selected' as unfit for work, his Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment involved him being in the Auschwitz sick barracks when it came under the control of Soviet troops on 27th January 1945.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 2 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Some Jews were permitted to be at the camp of Bergen-Belsen as a "special privilege" (sonder behandling). Because of this, 53 of these were charged after the war - via a lawsuit filed by the Jewish community in Thessaloniki - of being collaborators.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 3 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In March 1944 the Bergen-Belsen camp was redesignated as an Erholungslager ("recovery camp"), where prisoners too sick to work were brought for Sonder behandling - special treatment from other concentration camps. They were sent to Belsen to recover and recuperate. Bergen-Belsen contained no Sonder behandling -gas chambers.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 4 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Austrian psychologist Victor Frankl tells in his autobiography:
"At the end of the war I was in a camp in Türkheim/Bavaria, which was designated for the recreation of prisoners... When the US-Americans liberated the camp some young jews refused to give the commander of this camp to the American soldiers, because he had treated them very well. Only after the solemn pledge of the American soldiers, that the commander should be treated in a decent way, they told the soldiers the place where the commander was hidden."
. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 5 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding transports from Dachau, Martin Gottfried Weiss addressed the tribunal with the following statement, as quoted in "Justice at Dachau":
"There seems to be a mistaken idea among the prisoners who have appeared before this court that any transports which left for other work camps were so-called liquidation transports [(sonder behandling)?]. The fact is that small and big transports left Dachau all the time for Augsberg, Haunstetten, Kempten, Kotteren, different by-camps, delivering workers. And these were supplemented with invalid prisoners only after those prisoners had been nursed back to health."
In his book, Berben wrote that:
"In spite of the great number of witnesses who spoke for him during the postwar Dachau trial, Weiss was condemned to death and executed."
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1330

. . . . . . . . . . . . .


These people were camped in a war zone, faced with a starvation blockade, undergoing lack of food and medicinal supplies because of democidal bombing of civilians and infrastructure by the ALLIES. The millions who died of disease and starvation were NOT murdered by the Germans.
Anne Frank's father at the war's end was in a hospital for Typhus sufferers as were many others.
Viktor Frankl was released from Auschwitz by volunteering as Dr to help transport sick camp inmates to a recreation centre in Bavaria.
Its no use repeating examples of the deception/self-delusion required to maintain the 'planned murderous genocide' false allegation. Its time for us to come out of this and appraise the events logically, honestly and impartially.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:18 pm

been-there wrote:Sonder behandling 1 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Frank family - 'holocaust' STARS:
Anne Frank
Most know that Anne Frank died at the age of 15 in the Bergen-Belsen recovery camp (Erholungslager) in March 1945, just two weeks before the camp was liberated. What many do not know is that Anne Frank died of typhus NOT Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment.

Margot Frank
Margot (Anne's sister) died during a typhus epidemic with her sister shortly before the end of the war in Bergen-Belsen, where they had been sent for what the Auschwitz inmates told Irma Grese was the alleged Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment.

- Otto Frank
Otto (Anne's father) died of lung cancer on 19th August 1980 in Basel. He arrived in Auschwitz, during September 1945. After being 'selected' as unfit for work, his Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment involved him being in the Auschwitz sick barracks when it came under the control of Soviet troops on 27th January 1945.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 2 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Some Jews were permitted to be at the camp of Bergen-Belsen as a "special privilege" (sonder behandling). Because of this, 53 of these were charged after the war - via a lawsuit filed by the Jewish community in Thessaloniki - of being collaborators.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 3 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In March 1944 the Bergen-Belsen camp was redesignated as an Erholungslager ("recovery camp"), where prisoners too sick to work were brought for Sonder behandling - special treatment from other concentration camps. They were sent to Belsen to recover and recuperate. Bergen-Belsen contained no Sonder behandling -gas chambers.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 4 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Austrian psychologist Victor Frankl tells in his autobiography:
"At the end of the war I was in a camp in Türkheim/Bavaria, which was designated for the recreation of prisoners... When the US-Americans liberated the camp some young jews refused to give the commander of this camp to the American soldiers, because he had treated them very well. Only after the solemn pledge of the American soldiers, that the commander should be treated in a decent way, they told the soldiers the place where the commander was hidden."
. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 5 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding transports from Dachau, Martin Gottfried Weiss addressed the tribunal with the following statement, as quoted in "Justice at Dachau":
"There seems to be a mistaken idea among the prisoners who have appeared before this court that any transports which left for other work camps were so-called liquidation transports [(sonder behandling)?]. The fact is that small and big transports left Dachau all the time for Augsberg, Haunstetten, Kempten, Kotteren, different by-camps, delivering workers. And these were supplemented with invalid prisoners only after those prisoners had been nursed back to health."
In his book, Berben wrote that:
"In spite of the great number of witnesses who spoke for him during the postwar Dachau trial, Weiss was condemned to death and executed."
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1330

. . . . . . . . . . . . .


These people were camped in a war zone, faced with a starvation blockade, undergoing lack of food and medicinal supplies because of democidal bombing of civilians and infrastructure by the ALLIES. The millions who died of disease and starvation were NOT murdered by the Germans.
Anne Frank's father at the war's end was in a hospital for Typhus sufferers as were many others.
Viktor Frankl was released from Auschwitz by volunteering as Dr to help transport sick camp inmates to a recreation centre in Bavaria.
Its no use repeating examples of the deception/self-delusion required to maintain the 'planned murderous genocide' false allegation. Its time for us to come out of this and appraise the events logically, honestly and impartially.
Lets see if I have this right- been-there starts a thread about Irma G that gets completely trashed and simply inserts a random collection of tidbits that have nothing to do with the original theme? Is that OK with the mods. I think that everyone knows that Anne Frank wasn't gassed - and that she died because she was kidnapped by collaborating gangsters and sent to a hellhole by a criminal Nazi regime where she died from starvation and poor hygiene. Only in the sick, bizarre world of Nazi apologists is Anne Frank's death presented as exculpatory evidence. been-there, how many times can one poster shoot himself in the foot? You've already set the record.

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Joe Future » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:51 pm

I'll have a look at this small bugbear concerning Mr. been-there's Anne Frank datadump tomorrow. Otto was a very good photographer. Meantime, every one should keep calm.
That's not a semi colon, that's a colon!

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Statistical Mechanic » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:53 pm

That's how I have it figured. Been-there has discovered the shocking news that the Nazis killed people by means other than gassing - and then, unable to hold two simple ideas in his mind at the same time - decides that because Ann Frank died from typhus, for example, no one was gassed. And then somehow goes on to make some odd comments about S.B. along the same lines. Weird.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by been-there » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:10 pm

Bernard wrote:
been-there wrote:Sonder behandling 1 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Frank family - 'holocaust' STARS:
Anne Frank . What many do not know is that Anne Frank died of typhus NOT Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment.

Margot Frank
Margot (Anne's sister) died during a typhus epidemic with her sister shortly before the end of the war in Bergen-Belsen, where they had been sent for what the Auschwitz inmates told Irma Grese was the alleged Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment.

- Otto Frank
Otto (Anne's father) died of lung cancer on 19th August 1980 in Basel. He arrived in Auschwitz, during September 1945. After being 'selected' as unfit for work, his Sonder behandling-gas chamber treatment involved him being in the Auschwitz sick barracks when it came under the control of Soviet troops on 27th January 1945.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 2 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Some Jews were permitted to be at the camp of Bergen-Belsen as a "special privilege" (sonder behandling). Because of this, 53 of these were charged after the war - via a lawsuit filed by the Jewish community in Thessaloniki - of being collaborators.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 3 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
In March 1944 the Bergen-Belsen camp was redesignated as an Erholungslager ("recovery camp"), where prisoners too sick to work were brought for Sonder behandling - special treatment from other concentration camps. They were sent to Belsen to recover and recuperate. Bergen-Belsen contained no Sonder behandling -gas chambers.

. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 4 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Austrian psychologist Victor Frankl tells in his autobiography:
"At the end of the war I was in a camp in Türkheim/Bavaria, which was designated for the recreation of prisoners."
. . . . . . . . . . . . .

Sonder behandling 5 - the 'hard-to-reconcile-with-testimony' actual facts:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding transports from Dachau, Martin Gottfried Weiss addressed the tribunal with the following statement, as quoted in "Justice at Dachau":
"There seems to be a mistaken idea among the prisoners who have appeared before this court that any transports which left for other work camps were so-called liquidation transports [(sonder behandling)?]. The fact is that small and big transports left Dachau all the time for Augsberg, Haunstetten, Kempten, Kotteren, different by-camps, delivering workers. And these were supplemented with invalid prisoners only after those prisoners had been nursed back to health."
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1330
Lets see if I have this right- been-there starts a thread about Irma G... and simply inserts a random collection of tidbits that have nothing to do with the original theme? Is that OK with the mods...
In case any other Statistically Moronic individuals have trouble comprehending, allow me to make the connection easier to understand.
Statistical Mechanic wrote:Ms Grese... treated them like unfit Jews ready for S.B. or to be taken into the camp for labour or death.
...Yeah, her testimony on Sonderbehandlung more or less puts an exclamation point behind this: http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... =80#p28216.
Irma G AND Sonderbehandlung. Do you see now? The riffing on S.B and Irma G was made by another SM individual.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Bernard
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Bernard » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:18 pm

Statistical Mechanic wrote:That's how I have it figured. Been-there has discovered the shocking news that the Nazis killed people by means other than gassing - and then, unable to hold two simple ideas in his mind at the same time - decides that because Ann Frank died from typhus, for example, no one was gassed. And then somehow goes on to make some odd comments about S.B. along the same lines. Weird.
You are absolutely right about the losing struggle been-there wages against ambiguity, paradox and irony. If Vic Frankl had a tale of a nice Nazi then they must have all been nice. If Tobias Rawet survived, the Nazis must have loved Jew children. If Anne Frank died of typhus tough luck for her. If she didn't grab a snootful of prussic acid or CO, than the Nazis did the best for Anne and it was probably her own damn fault. Jews were typhus carriers and didn't wash their hands.

And back to Irma Grese, apparently at least one Jewess found her to be a sweety. Disproves all those liewitnesses who went on about Irma's sadism, bullying and perverted cruelty. How about a thread about the charm and charisma of Charles Manson and Ted Bundy?

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