'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

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been-there
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by been-there » Wed May 15, 2019 6:36 pm

blake121666 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:31 pm
I'm just telling it like it is.
...And the nazi ass-licking that anyone, regardless of his own opinions of nazis, that BT sometimes exudes is not the best "optics" for his opinions either.
I think a huge part of the problem is that schools get visits from lying, exaggerating, self-glorifying 'holocaust survivors' so they have a personal witness of supposed 'Nazi' barbarity and sadism.
But that seems to me to be a witnessing to quite obvious exaggeration* / deceit*, choose your word.
Plus these people on this circuit of indoctrination in the last decade were just young children at the time, so actually are not witnesses of any reliability or insight. What can a child of nine, thirteen or even seventeen know of the bigger picture or the causes of it? They are just ambassadors of the evolved mythology that came out in the 1960's after the Eichmann show-trial. No-one denies people were arrested because of their ethnicity and transported to concentration camps. Sure. But that happened also in Britain and America also, so why don't we get taught about that racist persecution, if that is what holocaust rembrance is supposed to be reminding us about?
No serious person denies that conditions worsened for inmates especially Jews after 1943 in the Axis camps, with the turn in the tide of war. Sure. So what — that is debated — are they actually personal eye-witnesses to? Obviously not a mass-gassing programme. None of these children at the time witnessed that. And the handful of survivors who did claim to have witnessed that like Bomba, Wiernik, etc., seem to me to be clear deceivers.

I genuinely think its a shame that people didn't ever get visits during their impressionable schooldays from unapologetic, upright and courageous wehrmacht soldiers as a counter balance. But we all know how that suggestion would be received.

I lived in Germany as a teenager and again in my late-twenties and met many people who'd served their nation during the tumultous times of WW2. I have mentioned before that one of my girlfriend's fathers was one of the last batch of wounded soldiers flown out of Stalingrad. He lost an eye. He was no different from my mother's brothers who also fought in that war.
I also met a Count in Munich who had been a Prussian cavalry officer. He was a marvelous specimen of humanity of a type that has all but disappeared in Europe: noble, gracious, humble, chivalrous, generous, witty, erudite. A remnant from another time with other values. To demonise all such people as 'Nazis' is to my mind both stupid and delusionally dishonest.

Well, what can we do? People are deluded by the decades of simplistic caricatures of wicked Germans or 'Nazis' from hollywood films and biased documentaries made principally by Jewish companies run by Jewish film moguls themselves of questionable morals. The Brad Pitt film 'Fury' is an excellent example of that. A disgusting film glorifying in self-righteous, violent vengeance made by the immoral, rapist, misogynist Harvey Weinstein.

But if you Blake think pointing out these self-evident truths equates to 'nazi arse-licking' then that to my mind just confirms the accuracy of my observation. Viz that you are just one of many millions who currently aren't able to see through the conditioning we have all been subjected to

Have you ever met that which is called 'a Nazi', Blake ?

I have had the close acquaintance of two and met many more in passing, and I can tell you that they defy the stereotype.
I have seen videos of Rochus Misch, Karl Krause and they seem all together decent people caught up in a war not of their choosing.

I have met one Holocaust survivor and he admitted to me that he had lied and then behaved very unchivalrously and rudely to me. I have watched many videos of 'survivors' and some were normal people but the likes of Kitty Hart, Eva Moses Korr, Elie Wiesel, Simon Wiesenthal, and so many others has a very high preponderance of people of questionable morals and credibility.

This isn't being obsequious to one group and prejudical to the other. It is as you wrote: "just telling it like it is".
Last edited by been-there on Tue May 28, 2019 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Turnagain » Wed May 15, 2019 6:57 pm

Blake121666 wrote:
What became of the Jews that the Nazis are known to have transported out of their residences and are thought to have been killed by the Nazis? Those same Nazis who implemented a policy to make Europe "Judenfrei"? After the war, those Jewish communities were not there and those Jews are not known to have been anywhere else on this Earth. That is the simple question which anyone would immediately want to know from you. And you have no evidenced answer to it. And the flippant "Jews went where Jews are" will not satisfy anyone. Jews were dead is the narrative. That is where they "are" unless you can evidence otherwise.
Blake is taking up Nessie's mantra of, "If all the Jews can't be located then they were gassed/shot/burned alive/etc." Like Nessie, he seems incapable of comprehending that unless he can prove that the Jews were gassed and cremated (shot, buried, whatever) as a matter of official policy to exterminate the Jews by the National Socialists then where the Jews went is irrelevant. If it could be proven that Germans gassed and cremated the Jews then where the Jews went is still irrelevant. The cremains are still at the alleged extermination camps.

No Jews were gassed therefore no Jews were cremated to "get rid of the evidence of murder". Cremations were carried out as a matter of hygiene and necessity. The "...simple question which anyone would immediately want to know..." is how did the Germans murder so many people and get rid of the bodies? Of course the simple answer is, "They didn't".

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Smallhausen » Wed May 15, 2019 7:32 pm

Turnagain wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 6:57 pm
Blake121666 wrote:
What became of the Jews that the Nazis are known to have transported out of their residences and are thought to have been killed by the Nazis? Those same Nazis who implemented a policy to make Europe "Judenfrei"? After the war, those Jewish communities were not there and those Jews are not known to have been anywhere else on this Earth. That is the simple question which anyone would immediately want to know from you. And you have no evidenced answer to it. And the flippant "Jews went where Jews are" will not satisfy anyone. Jews were dead is the narrative. That is where they "are" unless you can evidence otherwise.
Blake is taking up Nessie's mantra of, "If all the Jews can't be located then they were gassed/shot/burned alive/etc." Like Nessie, he seems incapable of comprehending that unless he can prove that the Jews were gassed and cremated (shot, buried, whatever) as a matter of official policy to exterminate the Jews by the National Socialists then where the Jews went is irrelevant. If it could be proven that Germans gassed and cremated the Jews then where the Jews went is still irrelevant. The cremains are still at the alleged extermination camps.

No Jews were gassed therefore no Jews were cremated to "get rid of the evidence of murder". Cremations were carried out as a matter of hygiene and necessity. The "...simple question which anyone would immediately want to know..." is how did the Germans murder so many people and get rid of the bodies? Of course the simple answer is, "They didn't".
Wiki reports that 58 million Europeans perished in this war, even if 6 million Jude did die that number is somewhat insignificant.
One might also add that to that alleged 6 million about 30 million Russian combatants perished and 0.122% of them were Jude. This means about 366 000 perished in combat. No doubt they are considered "holocaust " victims. At Katyn 450 of those officers were Jude. The sad fact is that millions of Jude were transported to Poland which ended up as a war zone.
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by blake121666 » Wed May 15, 2019 9:18 pm

BT went OT on a tangential comment and Turnagain likes to bicker. You're not going to "deny the Holocaust" successfully if you don't know what the Germans did with those Jews they allegedly "evacuated" from Europe. And your average person is not so stupid as to think that an explanation is not necessary - not after he is shown otherwise. Any success you might have with "denying the Holocaust" is by appeals to ignorance. You have no evidence for what happened to Jews who you allege were not killed by the Nazis.

EDIT: I was mostly interested in how BT handled the question. Not so much the question itself. The point being that you have no evidenced answer to the question, so how to handle it?
Last edited by blake121666 on Wed May 15, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Smallhausen » Wed May 15, 2019 9:24 pm

The word holocaust is a construct made by the one and only Wiesenthal to exemplify Jüdisches suffering. It seemed a given fact that the Reich and the German people were to blame. I am claiming that the word Holocaust is a minomer, as what happened in Europe with the death of 58 million European citizens including Jude was not a holocaust but an Apocalypse.

Jude may collect their Jüdische Todesfälle which may well be 4 million or more; this however, only makes up 10% of the casualties.
There is a thread here which asks why their suffering is somehow more important than say the 52 million other European casualties.
Nearly all of the online information squarely puts the blame on the Germans. Wiki states " Nazi Germany, aided by local collaborators, systematically murdered some six million European Jews—around two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe—..between 1941 and 1945.".. wiki, which fairly sums up the sentiments and all the propaganda out there.

It was well known by the Allied powers through intelligence and radio intercepts (Höfle telegram) that millions of Jude and others were in the area between the Bug and Vistula river working on the war effort, against their wishes. They were strategically targeted by the allies so that lack of hygiene, medicine would lead to their eventual agonizing demise. In those cold winters with disease this was exacerbated.
It would appear the death and destruction of those 58 million people was caused solely by the actions of the allied Strategic Bombing. This was not a mistake but a calculated plan; if they won they could blame the destruction on the Germans as they did with Belsen and other 'liberated" camps.
In reality there was no need for gaskammers as the strategic bombing would have achieved exactly the same result whether the gaskammers existed or not. To me gaskammers are a red herring to the crimes committed by the allies; if Jude have lost family, loved ones then the blame can be put on bomber Harris and Commander MacArthur, including Churchill and other cold hearted people in the war cabinet. From 1942-5, a campaign of 'strategic' - or 'area', or 'terror' - bombing destroyed most of the cities of Germany and killed 600,000 people, most of them women and children. However, while that is atrocious the bombing of infrastructure killed the others Jude included.
From the allied criminal perspective, Jude were working for the Germans and as such were deemed legitimate targets for destruction. Jude were not singled out due to ethnicity or religion. The Germans certainly put them unintentionally in the battle zone while the allies did the job of polishing them off. It was a simple expediency to blame the Germans after wards, after all the Germans lost the war; they could be blamed for everything.
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Turnagain » Thu May 16, 2019 3:48 am

Blake has bought into the Nessie mantra. "I want a travel itinerary and final destination for every Jew who transited through the AR camps". There is nothing of any relevance except THE QUESTION. Anything said by anyone that doesn't answer THE QUESTION is a fallacy (of some sort or another).

The real question is "where are the mass graves that contained the alleged 700,000 cadavers". If they ever did exist then they still do exist. GPR has been available for decades so why haven't any hoaxers produced proof of the graves? Although Jews do routinely exhume and rebury their dead, halachi is strictly applied to Treblinka. Sobibor and Belzec, not so much. Haimi has been digging like a gopher for several years and uncovered two (2) graves with 8 (10?) skeletal remains and NO cremains.

However, Blake goes along with THE QUESTION even though there's proof that the M&H dragline couldn't have dug the graves and that Wiernik never saw any gassed bodies or mass graves. Of course nobody has been able to explain how the magic Jew barbeque operated. Sergeant Floss supposedly invented a special way of stacking cadavers on the grill so they acted as fuel to cremate the other less flammable bodies. Try selling that to the "average person", Blake.

Revisionism, holyhoax reality, denial or whatever you want to call it is going mainstream with more and more people calling bullshit on the hoax. The Jews are maintaining a precarious hold on the narrative with their control of media but their grip is slipping. People like you and Nessie claiming that THE QUESTION is all that matters to disprove the holyhoax doesn't help maintain the official narrative.

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by been-there » Thu May 16, 2019 3:52 am

blake121666 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:18 pm
BT went OT on a tangential comment... You're not going to "deny the Holocaust" successfully if you don't know what the Germans did with those Jews they allegedly "evacuated" from Europe. And your average person is not so stupid as to think that an explanation is not necessary — not after he is shown otherwise. Any success you might have with "denying the Holocaust" is by appeals to ignorance. You have no evidence for what happened to Jews who you allege were not killed by the Nazis.

EDIT: I was mostly interested in how BT handled the question. Not so much the question itself. The point being that you have no evidenced answer to the question, so how to handle it?
I was not asked this question of 'where did they go then?' by any of the three intelligent people I discussed with while travelling abroad. I suspect that reasonable, open-minded people whose approach is honest enquiry will not resort to such a defensive, true-believer position.

It strikes me as like a true-believer Christian being explained that the bodily resurrection of their Messiah is probably a myth, who responds by asking "where are his bones then?".
I don't think it is a reasonable reply. His bones are wherever they are. That I can't tell you exactly where, is obviously NOT proof that therefore he really did physically float up to heaven in his whipped, crucified, damaged body.

Likewise with the Shakespeare controversy. The semi-literate merchant from Stratford couldn't possibly have written all the plays and sonnets accredited to him. He wouldn't have had the time first of all. But even more conclusively, he couldn't possibly have known all the details of courtly etiquette, law, greek mythology, roman history, local geography in Italy, etc., etc., that is contained in the plays. Only a university trained person who had access to the court of Elizabeth and had visited Italy could have known all that.
It would be foolish and ignorant to insist "who DID write the plays and sonnets then? If you can't answer that, then your argument is invalid".
We don't need to know who, to be able to accurately argue at least this much, that it wasn't the merchant son of a glove maker who didn't own a single book and whose children were illiterate.

Do you see?

Just because the majority of people believe something, does not make it true.

LIKEWISE, we don't need to know where exactly the Jews went, to be able to point out that — according to the currently known empirical evidence — it was not into the claimed mass graves in Treblinka, Sobibor, Babi Yarr, the pools in Auschwitz-Birkenau, etc., etc.

We don't need to know what exactly happened to the Jews to be able to point out that they were definitely not gassed in their thousands in Auschwitz using zyklon B then cremated in the numbers claimed, in the physically impossible way described, by the jewish lie-witnesses and the tortured German 'perpetrators'.

Do you see?

The burden of proof is on the accuser not the accused.

If true-believers in this obviously flawed and fantastic pseudo-history want their mythology to be accepted by the growing numbers of rational, reasonable, intelligent, honest skeptics who doubt it, then they have to produce fantastically convincing empirical and documentary evidence for it.
As we all here should now know, they can't.
There isn't any.
And that is precisely why true-believers instead shut down debate with hateful ad hominem abuse. Because deep down I think they know the mass-gassing story is a lie.
blake121666 wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:18 pm
Any success you might have with "denying the Holocaust" is by appeals to ignorance...
First I am not "denying the Holocaust". I have just explained that.

And I am not appealing to ignorance. I am raising awareness of the obvious flaws and deceits in the narrative.
E.g. the finger nail scrapes in the walls of an alleged gas chamber is an obvious deceit believed by gullible people. As far as I know there exist no photographs of them before the 1990's. Plus its an obvious physical impossibility.
Honest, intelligent people have no difficulty acknowledging this fact.
Irrational, true believers go ballistic.

Likewise with the stupid and dishonest "6 million murdered" deceit that even the UN is repeating.
Or even the more obviously ludicrous "six million gassed" idiocy that even intelligent people naively repeat.

When this deception is pointed out to honest, intelligent people, they have no difficulty acknowledging it. Only stupid and naive prejudicial people who have been conditioned to hate anyone questioning the Shoah shibboleth call this 'holocaust denial' and ask "where did they all go then?"
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by been-there » Thu May 16, 2019 8:10 am

Obviously the "accusation" under disccussion has been that of mass-murder, principally by mass-gassings of millions of Jews. I.e. the Jewish Holocaust accusation.
We are here at RODOH talking about THAT accusation.
The one which has been made against Hitler, Himmler, Frank, Eichmann, Höß and a host of others in the NSDAP.

It is an extremely serious accusation. It is one that has had huge and far-reaching consequences. It has traumatised millions of Jews into feeling justified in harbouring negative emotions of hatred, mistrust, self-pity and for perpetrating their own brutal slow-genocide of non-Jews in occupied Palestine.

It is a victor 'atrocity-propaganda' accusation that has traumatised millions of non-Jews into hating far-right political groups, and justified them feeling hatred, anger and violent thoughts towards anyone they suspect of being a neo-nazi or an 'H-denier'. It has severely limited our freedom of speech and even of thought. It has made nationalistic opinions anathema. It has enabled almost irreversible multi-culturalisation of many areas of Europe.

This mass-gassing mythology is the fantastic and non-credible genocidal atrocity accusation that needs to have fantastic empirical evidence to support it. We here know that when asked for some, none can be provided.

May I request other RODOH contributors do not respond to idiotic posters seeking to derail this discussion away from the flawed holocaust narrative into participating in personal put-downs.
Last edited by been-there on Thu May 16, 2019 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Turnagain » Thu May 16, 2019 8:17 am

But...but...but been there, where did the Jews go?

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Re: 'Holocaust reindoctrination' prophylactic.

Post by Smallhausen » Thu May 16, 2019 8:25 am

been-there wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 8:10 am
Obviously the "accusation" under disccussion has been that of mass-murder, principally by mass-gassings of millions of Jews. I.e. the Jewish Holocaust accusation.
We are here at RODOH talking about THAT accusation.
The one which has been made against Hitler, Himmler, Frank, Eichmann, Höß and a host of others in the NSDAP.

It is an extremely serious accusation. It is one that has had huge and far-reaching consequences. It has traumatised millions of Jews into feeling justified in harbouring negative emotions of hatred, mistrust, self-pity and for perpetrating their own brutal slow-genocide of non-Jews in occupied Palestine.

It is a victor 'atrocity-propaganda' accusation that has traumatised millions of non-Jews into hating far-right political groups, and justified them feeling hatred, anger and violent thoughts towards anyone they suspect of being a neo-nazi or an 'H-denier'. It has severely limited our freedom of speech and even of thought. It has made nationalistic opinions anathema. It has enabled almost irreversible multi-culturalisation of many areas of Europe.

This mass-gassing mythology is the fantastic and non-credible genocidal atrocity accusation that needs to have fantastic empirical evidence to support it. We here now that when asked for some, none can be provided.

May I request other RODOH contributors do not respond to idiotic posters seeking to derail this discussion away from the flawed holocaust narrative into participating in personal put-downs.
You are indeed correct Been There. Everyone in power whoever they are must realize that their authority has temporal value. Just as the Allies used retrospective legislation against honest members of the Reich, this has set a precedent for this to be applied in potential future governments against current authorities and previous ones.

This happened in England after Charles first was decapitated in 1649. In 1660 Charles II took the throne with the previous members of parliament who signed the death Warrant were tried, found guilty, then hanged drawn and quartered some twenty years later. Their legal and moral authority which resulted in the execution of the king was eroded; a new administration redressed this to their demise.
There is a lesson of history which some have forget. Their current power has no tenure and will be redressed.
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