Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(?)

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Statistical Mechanic
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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by Statistical Mechanic »

1933: I dare say, boycott or no boycott, Kaufman or no Kaufman, the Third Reich would have worked the way it worked. There would have been other pretexts. And the boycott didn't come out of the clear blue sky: it was a response to the program, policies, politics - and actions of the NSDAP through the 'twenties and early 'thirties. The boycott is a denier sideshow.

The Holocaust: About 1/4 of France's Jews, mostly foreign-born, died in the Holocaust. With of course a dose of help from some of the French themselves, including the police in such events as the notorious Vel' d'Hiv Roundup. That doesn't happen, perhaps there are necessary not symbolic occasions for decades after. You see. To blame the Jews for the plight of Muslims and Africans in France is the precise problem I was mentioning. Dieudonne is not only antisemitic, of course, nor did I say that that's all he is. He used to be "left" wing as did some of his allies and followers. Nor did I argue that Dieudonne is the extent of French, or European, antisemitism. Nor did I ever write a thing about what I think should be done with Dieudonne and his followers or say a word in support of restrictions on his speech: my point was that a news item on right-wing activism, an activism which chooses to bait and provoke Jews and which has among its followers those who see the shooting of teachers and children in a Jewish school as an "up yours" to the establishment, is not an example of the media gone wild. To suggest that it is is to apologize for Dieudonne.

And, last point, to identify - Holocaust or not, Drancy and Vel' d'Hiv or not - the French establishment as under Jewish power - saying that of the situation and attacks on Jews that they are led in part by Dieudonne "when this power is over his country" - is to miss so many points it's not worth bothering. I see you see, as you're backing up pretty quickly.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by Statistical Mechanic »

Balsamo wrote:That the gesture was used against Jews and Jewish symbol does not change its original meaning. If one says “Fuck you” to a Jew, it still means “fuck you”, and does not become a Nazi expression.
I'll hope you will understand that if one says "Fuck you" to the Jewish school in Toulouse, where teachers and students were murdered, and backs that up with a "Fuck you" at the murderer's former apartment, one is saying "Fuck you" in a special way to a special audience. Whether or not the perpetrator also shot some soldiers as well. Perhaps you won't. * wink wink * But that is how I see it, and it is how, I am certain, Dieudonne's followers, and others listening, understand it.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by Balsamo »

Statistical Mechanic wrote:1933: I dare say, boycott or no boycott, Kaufman or no Kaufman, the Third Reich would have worked the way it worked. There would have been other pretexts. And the boycott didn't come out of the clear blue sky: it was a response to the program, policies, politics - and actions of the NSDAP through the 'twenties and early 'thirties. The boycott is a denier sideshow.

The Holocaust: About 1/4 of France's Jews, mostly foreign-born, died in the Holocaust. With of course a dose of help from some of the French themselves, including the police in such events as the notorious Vel' d'Hiv Roundup. That doesn't happen, perhaps there are necessary not symbolic occasions for decades after. You see. To blame the Jews for the plight of Muslims and Africans in France is the precise problem I was mentioning. Dieudonne is not only antisemitic, of course, nor did I say that that's all he is. He used to be "left" wing as did some of his allies and followers. Nor did I argue that Dieudonne is the extent of French, or European, antisemitism. Nor did I ever write a thing about what I think should be done with Dieudonne and his followers or say a word in support of restrictions on his speech: my point was that a news item on right-wing activism, an activism which chooses to bait and provoke Jews and which has among its followers those who see the shooting of teachers and children in a Jewish school as an "up yours" to the establishment, is not an example of the media gone wild. To suggest that it is is to apologize for Dieudonne.

And, last point, to identify - Holocaust or not, Drancy and Vel' d'Hiv or not - the French establishment as under Jewish power - saying that of the situation and attacks on Jews that they are led in part by Dieudonne "when this power is over his country" - is to miss so many points it's not worth bothering. I see you see, as you're backing up pretty quickly.

Well i guess we did not undertand each other...
The Merah affair was of course a tragedy, as are all the crimes, like the shootings in the US which are more bloody...
My point was that in the context of the french republlican regime, no crimes should be more important than others...the Merah affair is famous because the victims were Jews...but the loony also killed 3 french soldiers.
Of course the media went wild after this crime...But they also went wild after a single improvised sketch of mister Dieudonne in 2003.
But not only the media: He was tried 25 times between 2003 and 2005...and his first condamnation was in 2007!

I did not understand your last sentence. Do you defend the idea that since 1995 the French government is not exposed to a powerful Jewish lobby? Which is not of my business i must say. I admire them for getting there, and i am not a republican neither, i am also only a quarter french. But why hide it? Why make it a crime to mention it? If there could be doubts before, since the beginning of 2014, they evaporated and the consequences will be dirty. It was a mistake, like the boycott of 1933 was a mistake...i don't know if it would hae changed anything, but it surely facilitate the Nazi program. What is happening in France for the last two weeks is not going to be without effects, and again it would be normal people that will suffer first, nd not the ones who speaks on TV.

Some strategy can be applied to other State Nations with effective result. But the one that is being applied in France - because it is France and based on written values - will lead to disaster. That is all i am saying.

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

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There you go again: I never said - to repeat - that the loathsome utterances of Dieudonne for instance should be crimes. Why do you keep implying that I have said this?

My point - please try to follow - was that the followers of Dieudonne do not at all take the Toulouse and Montauban shootings as tragedy. (And, again, I referred to the shootings in Montauban as well as all those in Toulouse.)

What in the name of god does the bloodiness of shootings in the US have to do with the Dieudonne affair?

Enough. To say that there is among the lobbies of western governments a Jewish lobby is different than to write, as you did, of a state laboring under Jewish power.
It was a mistake, like the boycott of 1933 was a mistake...i don't know if it would hae changed anything, but it surely facilitate the Nazi program.
This assertion is beyond dubious - straight out of the AAARGH playbook. The boycott played about the same role as Kaufman. It or something like it would have been invented if need be. The Nazis were not provoked by the boycott; they provoked the boycott.

Slippery slope you're one, and sliding quite badly it seems.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by Balsamo »

StatMec,
One asshole doing a quenelle in front of a crime scene cannot be transformed as representative of the half of million of Dieudonne followers. And again, that was not was i was talking about.
Sociologically, if this idiot do a quenelle on this scene, it is a consequence of a situation, not a cause.
That does not mean that i support the movement, quite the contrary, but as i am doing a work about this affair and its consequences, i was just suprised first by the fact that this "fait divers" reached the US, by the way the foreign press distributed the case, without any inquiries, and ultimatly that i read here on rodoh - which is not a french site - that the quenelle is anti-semitic.

I amnot accusing you to have said anything beyond that. I diverted that topic - yes i admit - to stress out that the situation France is very critic. That we have here a typical example of how the Jewish elite and the french government chosed the worse strategy to fight someone who was a marginal comedian, turning him into a martyr, and even worse, revealing to an hostile public the truth about the Jewish power in France. When a minister of the interior decides to declare war to an Artist - even if an imbecile - naming him, i mean it is not about his shows, it is about him, in the name of the values of the French Republic which are being betrayed for the last 20 years or so, that he drags in his foly the president himslelf, using powers that is not in the Constitution, it is a very bad strategy.
In four months, there will be elections...

Since January 2014, the minister of the interior declared a personnal war against a comic - even if an imbecile - mobilizing everything he could find - even if unconstitutional -to fight him. It is the first time in recent history that a shows is cancelled BEfore it took place. For the last two weeks, the Jewish organizations are in full force, exposed, behind the minister that declared a couple of months ago that he felt tight to Israel through his wife who is jewish - against this artist that no one knew not so long ago! We have finkelkraut losing his temper on TV, Arno Klarsfeld ( the son of Serge) who did his military service with Tsahal and who had been nominated to the "Conseil d'Etat" - which within AN hour threw away a tradition regarding an almost 80 years old judicial tradition regarding the freedom of speech. It did not even take the time to think about the consequences of its decision.
What is the decision based on : Trouble of public order....and here you have Klarsfeld stating publically, on TV that he will take care of the problem by organizing demonstrations that will trouble public order to give legitimity to the minister decision!!
It is getting out of control: Some Jewish intellectuals protested against this twisting of the State of Justice (l'Etat de droit), two former ministers warned of the illegality of the action. Some others dared also, only to appear at the front page of national paper as "partisans of hatred"!

The same minister of the interior has also declared war on the muslim headscarf, while welcoming the Kippa...All this has nothing to do with the republic.
Today, in France, there are commerorations of the deportation of 300 jews from Bordeaux...very smart for sure...
As i say, there will be elections in 4 months, and i really fear the results.

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

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In 4 months there will be elections . . . and Hollande (the Hollande affair has a bit of a double meaning, I guess) has an approval rating half that of the unpopular American president.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by been-there »

Bernard wrote:
been-there wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: My being American is beside the point.
The French guy was just one of many so-called 'news' stories.
I could have found more.
We are contsantly bombarded with Holocaust 'news'.
The French guy is just one example of what happens when you poke fun at that.
Your being American might be extremely pertinent to the point.
It could explain why you appear NOT to be able to understand what the point of this thread actually is.
If you have some hard evidence that each of these stories was orchestrated by a centralized collection of conspirators, post your evidence.
...Like I already noted, 1,020,000 papers ran stories about Kevin Durants 48 pt outburst vs the T-wolves last week. Now that is news.
He he. Well, ironically you are again demonstrating THAT YOU HAVE not GOT THE POINT that I intended.

" ...a centralized collection of conspirators..."?!!?
Holy moly! What a telling miscomprehension and monster-of-a-strawman! :roll:
Ho-hum.

Erm... Try this explanation... if Kevin Durants 48 pt outburst is still regarded as 'news' in seventy years time, with ten to fifteen news variations of it in a single 24-hour period, and with two variations on it in a single newspaper, THEN your comparison might be relevant and appropriate.
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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by Statistical Mechanic »

Balsamo,

We probably agree that the French authorities are mishandling the Dieudonne affair. But back to the topic of this thread - media promotion of the H. agenda - we can see as a counterpoint in the Dieudonne affair that 1) it is Dieudonne himself - with remarks like this one
"When I hear him talking, I say to myself: Patrick Cohen, hmm... the gas chambers… what a shame"
and the addition of les ananas to la quenelle - who exploits the H. to promote his agenda and 2) the media doesn't always and everywhere get the H. message, for, in the US, where the Jew is supposedly in a position of such "power over" things, the "French" news item that was featured this weekend was not at all the ban of Dieudonne in Nantes (I couldn't find that story without looking) but this: http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/12/world/eur ... ?hpt=hp_t2. One of been-there's top items thus, in the Jew-run US, was scarcely noticeable. Hollande's wife trumped Dieudonne in the American media this weekend presumably because her story is salacious and fits in better with the Golden Globes theme, which was in fact the media's interest much of the weekend.

Of course, they say that the Jews run Hollywood, so . . .
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by Bernard »

been-there wrote:
Bernard wrote:
been-there wrote:
Statistical Mechanic wrote: My being American is beside the point.
The French guy was just one of many so-called 'news' stories.
I could have found more.
We are contsantly bombarded with Holocaust 'news'.
The French guy is just one example of what happens when you poke fun at that.
Your being American might be extremely pertinent to the point.
It could explain why you appear NOT to be able to understand what the point of this thread actually is.
If you have some hard evidence that each of these stories was orchestrated by a centralized collection of conspirators, post your evidence.
...Like I already noted, 1,020,000 papers ran stories about Kevin Durants 48 pt outburst vs the T-wolves last week. Now that is news.
He he. Well, ironically you are again demonstrating THAT YOU HAVE not GOT THE POINT that I intended.

" ...a centralized collection of conspirators..."?!!?
Holy moly! What a telling miscomprehension and monster-of-a-strawman! :roll:
Ho-hum.

Erm... Try this explanation... if Kevin Durants 48 pt outburst is still regarded as 'news' in seventy years time, with ten to fifteen news variations of it in a single 24-hour period, and with two variations on it in a single newspaper, THEN your comparison might be relevant and appropriate.
So the reason that the Holocaust might get more hits today than a single BBall game might get in 70 years is? Dude, if you don't have notions of paranoid conspiracies whats the isssue?

BTW, google hits for Joe Louis 214,000,000. Google hits for Auschwitz- 4 million. Why is the Brown Bomber 43 times more rellevent than Auschwitz. Must be the International boxing conspiracy.

Talk about Strawmen. been-there, be a man. admit your mistake. You've made no valid point, nor have you had the guts to respond to Stat Mack's request that you state your point explicitly.

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Re: Media NEVER lets us forget it - Holocaust in the 'news'(

Post by Statistical Mechanic »

Bernard wrote:BTW, google hits for Joe Louis 214,000,000. Google hits for Auschwitz- 4 million. Why is the Brown Bomber 43 times more rellevent than Auschwitz. Must be the International boxing conspiracy.
Vietnam War: 1.25x more hits than the Holocaust.
Marilyn Friggin' Monroe: 1.67x more hits than the Holocaust.
Bowling, the Big Media Obsession: 5.05x more hits than the Holocaust.

Unfortunately for been-there, the reality of the media doesn't fit into the little box he's trying to create.
Bernard wrote:Talk about Strawmen. been-there, be a man. admit your mistake. You've made no valid point, nor have you had the guts to respond to Stat Mack's request that you state your point explicitly.
Yep, be a mensch. And, for goodness sake, try to think more realistically about the media and what its concerns are.
"the Germans had ample justifiable cause to oppose a minority within their society who worked AGAINST their county's interests" -- been-there, 24 April 2014

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