How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneously

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Ilol'd
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by Ilol'd »

Maybe it's not quite as good as Olere's, but can you help me understand Tauber's words and how this was achieved?

Image
Tauber wrote:While the corpses were being loaded on the stretcher, one of these opened the door of the muffle and the other positioned the rollers. Then, they lifted the stretcher and put it on the rollers, while a fifth prisoner, positioned at the handles at the other end of the stretcher, lifted it at the same time as them and pushed it into the muffle. As soon as the corpses were inside, a sixth prisoner held them there with a fire iron while the fifth withdrew the stretcher. The sixth man also had to cool the stretcher as it came out of the furnace by pouring over it water in which soap had been dissolved so that the next load of corpses would slide easily on the metal of the stretcher without sticking to it. The same procedure was used for the following charge destined to be incinerated in the same muffle. We had to work fast, for the corpses put in first soon started to burn, and their arms and legs rose up. If we were slow, it was difficult to charge the second pair of corpses. During the introduction of these other two corpses, I was able to observe the cremation process. It appeared that the trunk of the body rose and the arms stretched towards the sky before contracting. The same thing happened with the legs.
[...]
First we put in two adults, then as many children as the muffle could contain. It was sometimes as many as 5 or 6.
[...]
Women's bodies burned much better and more quickly than those of men. For this reason, when a charge was burning badly, we would introduce a women's body to accelerate the combustion.
Last edited by Ilol'd on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Roberto Luc
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by Roberto Luc »

Ilol'd wrote:
The Wall wrote:Are you nervous, kid?
Why would you make me nervous? I lol'd.
Who attacks for no apparent reason, seems to be nervous.
Ilol'd wrote:
The Wall wrote:I said 'resembling process', not equal. "Epic proportions" is what you claim, you must believe the Germans couldn't develop such a mechanism as if they were a bunch of idiots.
And I repeat, stop talking bullshit if you haven't read his patent. The process is not similar in any way whatsoever.
Topf document: http://www.mazal.org/pressac/Pressac0136.htm

OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS FOR COKE-FIRED TOPF DOUBLE-MUFFLE INCINERATION FURNACE
After each incineration, the temperature rises in the furnace. For this reason, care must be taken that the internal temperature does not rise above 1100°C (white heat).

Ilol'd wrote:So stop opening your mouth and go back to Exile where you and somerandomforumguy or whatever his name is belong.
First your suggestion was rejected. Second I think you have no moral or intellectual authority to give any orders. Looks like I'm arguing with a child in a kindergarten.
The Wall wrote:I think you should read what was being discussed, you are deliberately diverting the discussion to platitudes. I mentioned above the central point of the discussion (the volume of the muffle and the corpses volumes) and you said nothing. I'm really not interested in your tantrums.
Ilol'd wrote:No, you brought up something completely irrelevant and non-existent and tried to link it to the practice at AB. It's like me bringing up a potato to a discussion about LCD displays.
I said it: http://forum.rodoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=24635#p24635
Because I found the drawing similar (not equal) to the description that Sander did. There's no foolishness in it.

The problem you just lurks to try to attack those who you don't like for futile reasons, as an old topic where you don't argue back and attacks again.

As I said before, I'm not interested in your attacks, this is bad for you not for me, if you have something to discuss, go ahead, otherwise ignore me. I decide if I comment here or not and in the case of infringement of rule there are Moderators on the forum to analyze it.

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Roberto Luc
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by Roberto Luc »

Depth Check wrote:Let’s keep things civil here, chaps. Please address posters by their proper user names.
Depth Check, I'm sorry but I had to answer, I don't like to go to the topic of Moderation request intervention (intervention only when absolutely necessary, in extreme cases), but it's the second time this guy comes for attacking diverting the focus of discussion. I will ignore him from now on.

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theblackrabbitofinlé
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by theblackrabbitofinlé »

Roberto wrote:Olère indeed seems to have forgotten to draw these rollers on the oven into which the bodies are being introduced. But he didn't forget to draw them on the other oven.
It seems rather unlikely that he forgot when he spent so much effort drawing three men charging corpses in a method completely at odds to that attested to by Tauber.
We just wish to point out to the court that is not a signed sworn statement of Dr. Bender but merely a translation of an alleged or purported statement of Dr. Bender, the original of which, like many other things, is not to be found today.
- Defence counsel, Dachau trial, 7 August 1947

Bob
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by Bob »

For Olére´s silly drawing, Mattogno´s comment:
In his effort to show the exactness of Tauber’s testimony, Pressac refers to a drawing by David Olère, a self-styled member of the crematorium personnel. In this drawing (Pressac 1989, p. 259; also van Pelt 2002, p. 179), the loading procedure is actually somewhat different than Tauber’s description: the stretcher does not move on rollers but on a steel rail held by two detainees.586 Those doing the work number only three. Moreover, this drawing contains four serious mistakes: first of all, the dimensions of the muffle opening are vastly exaggerated. The top of the muffle door is above the heads of the three detainees, whereas it actually stood at 132 cm from the floor. Secondly, the inmate on the right who lifts the rail has no protection against the heat; his upper body is bare, although he stands with his back toward the inside of the muffle door which is essentially at about 800°C. Thirdly, this way of loading would necessarily require a fourth man to hold the corpses inside the muffle while the stretcher-man pushes the stretcher in under them. Finally, flames and smoke escape from the open center muffle, but this was impossible, because flames and smoke were sucked up immediately by the draft of the chimney, and the openings to the flue duct of a triple-muffle oven were located in the ash chamber below the central muffle. Olère’s drawing therefore has no value in terms of evidence.
When our "expert" needs to use drawing (quite erroneous) to prove something, you can be sure he has nothing better. If we follow his logic, one can simply draw Muehlenkamp and how he abuses some kids and then introduce it as evidence. :roll:
Roberto wrote:At Buchenwald they didn't have the ingenious roller system that, according to Tauber, was invented by Kapo August.
In reality the roller system was of course part of the ovens and this is no invention from some capo in Auschwitz as RM´s source Tauber claims and as our "parrot" repeats but a feature from the manufacturer which is a part of the oven, here Buchenwald and Mauthausen and Topf double/triple-muffle furnaces, the three muffle furnace in Buchenwald was then installed several months prior to Auschwitz, the rollers are of course placed a bit higher to allow stretcher to move into the oven thus reducing the space even more during the introduction, here, here, here

But is fine to see how RM admitted the use of this system which reduces the space.

Is a real fun to see how Muehlenkamp insults everyone around whereas he is the one who is completely off all the time and he again demonstrated that he even does not know how the ovens looked like yet this dilettante knows that 8 bodies were placed inside.

What about a 3D reproduction of 8 emaciated bodies in the muffle Muehlenkamp, what are you waiting for? (Let me guess, the answer will be as usual "No, you do it, you are disputing it so you must do your homework")
Roberto wrote:For you see, Engineer Sander of Topf & Söhne, while not a fan of the muffle system and aware of its shortcomings, doesn't seem to have shared your concerns about multiple cremation.
So exactly as predicted, RM answered Lohengrin´s points with his flawed nonsenses. For refutation, here from the beginning or more recently from this point.

RM has nothing better since he spams the same letter over and over, thus the conclusion is clear.

Ilol'd
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by Ilol'd »

Roberto Luc wrote:Topf document: http://www.mazal.org/pressac/Pressac0136.htm
You're comparing apples and potatoes again. These instructions differ from the non-existent patented oven so much that all you can do is wipe your behind with them. Why you are bringing up the AB oven instructions and trying to link them with a non-existent mass incinerator is beyond me. Maybe try understanding what you're posting beforehand. You'll save yourself the humiliation.
Roberto Luc wrote:I said it: http://forum.rodoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=24635#p24635
Because I found the drawing similar (not equal) to the description that Sander did. There's no foolishness in it.
Yes there is, because you don't understand what you're talking about. The drawing of Olere isn't even near how the patented oven looked or would be used. So bringing up the non-existent oven into this discussion is much worse than mere "foolishness." A trademark of yours.
Roberto Luc wrote:The problem you just lurks to try to attack those who you don't like for futile reasons, as an old topic where you don't argue back and attacks again.
I stopped arguing there because I realized that I've never in my life met somebody so ignorant and oblivious to reason, claiming such idiocy, other than you. Try re-reading your "arguments" why you believe The Rabbit plagiarized his discovery from somebody else and you'll see just why your "arguments" are idiotic. But of course this is a task way too difficult for the simple mind of yours, so you still believe your, ahem, "arguments" (for lack of a better term) to this very day. Quite sad, knowing you're an adult.
Lohengrin wrote:(b) there exists less contact surface between bodies and hot air
I don't understand. There's obviously more contact surface with a bigger load, but the depth that heat has to transfer is bigger as well.
Last edited by Ilol'd on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

randomforumguy
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by randomforumguy »

Where are you going with this ? How many corpses would you like to be able to fit through there ?

Bob
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by Bob »

Ilol'd wrote:I don't understand. There's obviously more contact surface with a bigger load, but the depth that heat has to transfer is bigger as well.
This has been discussed as one of the factor which prolongs cremation in the thread about cremation, when one body is in the oven, then the heat, flames....can reach the body as best as possible, especially the top side of the body is exposed. When more bodies are in the oven, just only two for instance, then one side of the first body and one side of the second body are touching each other and contrary to cremation of one body, the heat, flames....cannot reach these places like in the case of individual cremation, the heat and flames needs to reach these places after longer time than in the case of individual cremation when the body is exposed in full.

More bodies = the situation is more worse.

Hope I am clear but I guess we are all talking about the same.

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Roberto Luc
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by Roberto Luc »

Ilol'd wrote:
Roberto Luc wrote:Topf document: http://www.mazal.org/pressac/Pressac0136.htm
You're comparing apples and potatoes again. These instructions differ from the non-existent patented oven so much that all you can do is wipe your behind with them. Why you are bringing up the AB oven instructions and trying to link them with a non-existent mass incinerator is beyond me. Maybe try understanding what you're posting beforehand. You'll save yourself the humiliation.
You're wrong again and tergiversating, I put this document to show there's not much difference between cremation and incineration and you continue to give tantrums distorting what I put before (it was about another matter) dishonestly for diverting the focus of topic discussion.
Ilol'd wrote:
Roberto Luc wrote:I said it: http://forum.rodoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=24635#p24635
Because I found the drawing similar (not equal) to the description that Sander did. There's no foolishness in it.
Yes there is, because you don't understand what you're talking about. The drawing of Olere isn't even near how the patented oven looked or would be used. So bringing up the non-existent oven into this discussion is much worse than mere "foolishness." A trademark of yours.
I put the text for another reason it was that the drawing with the bodies to be placed in the oven, you're saying that I said something without having said. Note that only you are rotating around this your statement. You said one thing without knowing why I put the drawing. More "Revisionist" nonsense.
Ilol'd wrote:
Roberto Luc wrote:The problem you just lurks to try to attack those who you don't like for futile reasons, as an old topic where you don't argue back and attacks again.
I stopped arguing there because I realized that I've never in my life met somebody so ignorant and oblivious to reason, claiming such idiocy, other than you. Try re-reading your "arguments" why you believe The Rabbit plagiarized his discovery from somebody else and you'll see just why your "arguments" are idiotic. But of course this is a task way too difficult for the simple mind of yours, so you still believe your, ahem, "arguments" (for lack of a better term) to this very day. Quite sad, knowing you're an adult.
See what a coincidence, I thought the same about you and I didn't give tantrums for it. I really don't care your opinion about me, but you with this posture are trolling the topic, for stupidity or intentionally.

What I commented on the photo of Buchenwald is correct, but I have to admit that even disagreeing with everything from Rabbit, he doesn't give these hysterical.

randomforumguy
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Re: How many corpses could you fit through here simultaneous

Post by randomforumguy »

for a guy that is loling he does seem to be having tantrums. If you don't have anything useful to say, then don't say it

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