Where did they go

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Loog wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:43 am
Huntinger, fyi your thesis is easily refuted by Germans like Frank and Backe saying there were millions of Jews in the General Government in late 41/42. Unless you're saying you would know better than the Reich Minister of Food.

In June 1942 -
Backe: “in the GG there are still 3.5 million Jews. Poland should already be sanitised this year.”

Chef Wi Z, Aktenvermerk über die Besprechung bei Staatssekretär Backe am 23.6.42 mit den
landwirtschaftlichen Sachbearbeitern der besetzten Gebiete, 24.6.42, NARA T77/419/1689242, also NI-6194.
Goodness me, it would seem the Minister of Food was not well informed. Perhaps he was not aware that half of Poland was annexed by the Soviets. There was not that many to begin with. Grasping on straws but that is OK; the Wannsee conference January 20, 1942 said in its minutes:
General Government 2,284,000 (from the time of its inception and departures). Loog from your information the population increased by a million. What happened to these exterminations.?
We know the Soviets deported over a million juden, we know thousands were forced marched into Soviet Territory across the Sans, prior to Barbarossa as well as the eviction of 80 000 Ciechanow juden into Soviet territory prior to that date as well. How do you think the Minister of grub would know who was and was not there?

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:30 am
Nessie wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:36 pm
Dutch records show transports to the camp at Sobibor. The witnesses describe arriving at the camp Sobibor. Dutch property, such as children's name tags has been found during archaeological excavations at Sobibor. There is ample evidence to prove c33,000 Dutch Jews arrived at Sobibor. Rather than evidence they left the camp, since you know you cannot do that, you make unevidenced speculative claims to suggest they never arrived.

If you think Sobibor was a customs post and those people left, show me your evidence that they left.
Transports arrive at railway stations not camps; it would be expect thousands of people would be evicted in a customs border outpost. It was made clear by many of these Dutch Js that they went to multiple camps, one to Sobibor and to Auschwitz on multiple occasions. It seems these people went all over the place, Sobibor just being one destination and could have ended up in any of the camps in the area. Some of course ended up in Minsk.

If there is a suggestion of mass murder then please provide some credible evidence.
Sobibor had a station inside the camp. Prove your claim that the vast majority of those who arrived at that station, then left the camp. You can start with the Dutch Jews, or evidence other transports. "Its seems" is not evidence, you need to do better than that. Show your evidence.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:15 am
Loog wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:43 am
Huntinger, fyi your thesis is easily refuted by Germans like Frank and Backe saying there were millions of Jews in the General Government in late 41/42. Unless you're saying you would know better than the Reich Minister of Food.

In June 1942 -
Backe: “in the GG there are still 3.5 million Jews. Poland should already be sanitised this year.”

Chef Wi Z, Aktenvermerk über die Besprechung bei Staatssekretär Backe am 23.6.42 mit den
landwirtschaftlichen Sachbearbeitern der besetzten Gebiete, 24.6.42, NARA T77/419/1689242, also NI-6194.
Goodness me, it would seem the Minister of Food was not well informed. Perhaps he was not aware that half of Poland was annexed by the Soviets. There was not that many to begin with. Grasping on straws but that is OK; the Wannsee conference January 20, 1942 said in its minutes:
General Government 2,284,000 (from the time of its inception and departures). Loog from your information the population increased by a million. What happened to these exterminations.?
We know the Soviets deported over a million juden, we know thousands were forced marched into Soviet Territory across the Sans, prior to Barbarossa as well as the eviction of 80 000 Ciechanow juden into Soviet territory prior to that date as well. How do you think the Minister of grub would know who was and was not there?
Wannsee was counting the Polish Jewish population in Part III. It was split between the GC and Bialystock, which meant a Polish population of 2,684,000. Then, by June 1942, the Nazis had been deporting millions of Jews into the camps in Poland, so at that time, the Jewish population could well have been 3.5 million in total.

You are still dodging what happened to the Jews in Nazi custody after Op Barbarossa. We know that 1.274 million were sent to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Where did they go?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:06 am
We know that 1.274 million were sent to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Where did they go?
Historians like Christopher Browning has done extensive research on the use of Juden in various arbeitslager throughout the Reich and the GG; he reports hundred and hundred of thousands working for their bread. Those who could not work were not transported but sent to retirement camps. There were no AR camps that is a misnomer somehow woven into a sublime reality of nonsense.
Dutch jude, Eddy de Wind was sent to Auschwitz where he reports harsh realities but nothing like the atrocities often mentioned. He was a doctor there. He talks of hundreds of thousands of people working at Buna alone making ammunition and other war provisions.
By the end of 1942 most people were sent into the Soviet Union, those who remained worked. I think that is simple enough.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:27 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:06 am
We know that 1.274 million were sent to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Where did they go?
Historians like Christopher Browning has done extensive research on the use of Juden in various arbeitslager throughout the Reich and the GG; he reports hundred and hundred of thousands working for their bread. Those who could not work were not transported but sent to retirement camps.
What camps? Show your evidence.
There were no AR camps that is a misnomer somehow woven into a sublime reality of nonsense.
Dutch jude, Eddy de Wind was sent to Auschwitz where he reports harsh realities but nothing like the atrocities often mentioned. He was a doctor there. He talks of hundreds of thousands of people working at Buna alone making ammunition and other war provisions.
By the end of 1942 most people were sent into the Soviet Union, those who remained worked. I think that is simple enough.
We know for certain that c1.274 million Jews were under Nazi control and had been sent to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Where did they then go?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:16 pm
Where did they then go?
Soviet Russia, now write that down and stop asking silly questions. The Reich collected 941 million Reichsmarks in departure taxes. In 1938, 2.49M=$1, so 941 million is equivalent to 377 million US dollars back then. Adjusted for inflation, $377,000,000.00 in 1938 is equal to $6,727,722,083 in 2020. It is reported that 90% of this was from juden, so this means the departure taxes from juden was 6,054,949,875 or just over 6 Billion dollars. The exemption limit for foreign exchanges was set at 10 Reichsmark ($4), which was the average departure tax. In today's money US is $71.38 . While this was a mere average and other people were paying more if they held property this is a lot of people. This may include a plethora of other taxes as well.

Of course it could be suggested the Germans stole the money and then stuffed the people in the Chimneys. :mrgreen:

Die soziale Heimatpartei
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:45 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:16 pm
Where did they then go?
Soviet Russia, now write that down and stop asking silly questions. ...
Where in Soviet Russia? Be specific. Evidence transports of people leaving the AR camps and their destinations.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:47 pm
Where in Soviet Russia? Be specific. Evidence transports of people leaving the AR camps and their destinations.
Try and read the works of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, which was the first source of the information. Its all been mentioned here before, many times and will not be reproduced again for this poster. As mentioned at each of these AR locations there was a customs office and in some cases a command centre. It is assumed that there is an English version of the Gulag Archipelago.

Die soziale Heimatpartei
𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:55 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:47 pm
Where in Soviet Russia? Be specific. Evidence transports of people leaving the AR camps and their destinations.
Try and read the works of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, which was the first source of the information. Its all been mentioned here before, many times and will not be reproduced again for this poster. As mentioned at each of these AR locations there was a customs office and in some cases a command centre. It is assumed that there is an English version of the Gulag Archipelago.
Show me where Solzhenitsyn evidences that the Soviets received mass transports of Jews from the AR camps in 1942-3.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:04 am
Show me where Solzhenitsyn evidences that the Soviets received mass transports of Jews from the AR camps in 1942-3.
I do believe this poster is being deliberately obtuse. Korherr mentioned deportations and evacuations from 1937; there is evidence that 80 000 Ciechanow juden were evicted from the GG into Soviet Poland; the only nearby customs command is Malkinia a few km from the Treblinka railway station. It was also mentioned many times of the movement of juden from Warsaw to Minsk through the Treblinka area. No doubt they must have been processed by Zollgrenzschutz as a requirement of leaving, as were all people. By this time which is post Barbarossa the Malkinia customs was relocated to Bialystok.
There were no AR camps, but possibly Einsatz Reinhardt camps which had an economic purpose; it is evidenced that 8000 people left a Treblinka camp to go elsewhere.

It has also been evidenced that juden walked post Barbarossa into Eastern Poland and Belarus. Prior to this they would have walked across the bridge at the border. This explains why many cities in Eastern Poland doubled in size, forcing the Soviet deportations as well as possible executions just outside Minsk at Курапаты.

It is possible up until Barbarossa that many juden were also involved in the Курапаты executions by the NKVD; there are reports of Polish items found amongst the 250 000 + murdered.

Die soziale Heimatpartei
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