Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

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Nessie
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:08 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:06 pm
That still does not mean in an instant "natychmiastowy" or at the same time "w tym samym czasie".
Nessie thinks the absence of THIS Polish proves his case. What he fails to take into account (on purpose of course), is that all language is synonymous and there is more than one way of saying something.
Werd wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:02 pm
Nessie just keeps repeating his lie that he concocts in an ad hoc fallacy in order to rescue his precious witness.

The Polish adverb “naraz” translates as “at the same time, together,”

What does google translate say about "wyciągano naraz 3000 trupów."?

3,000 corpses were pulled out at once

Google translate also says:

adverb

at once
naraz, ihneď, náhle

at the same time
napriek tomu, naraz, súčasne

simultaneously
súčastne, naraz
Nessie loses again.

And again.
https://context.reverso.net/translation ... lish/naraz

Image
Nothing there shows that at a time or at once also means in an instant. For example, "society only tolerates one change at a time", does not mean that change is instantaneous and happens in one go.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Werd
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Last edited by Werd on Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:21 pm
For example, "society only tolerates one change at a time", does not mean that change is instantaneous and happens in one go.
In this phrase we're talking about one thing at a time. One in succession after the other. So comparing it with a Wiernick sentence that talks about MORE THAN ONE THING, IN FACT, 3000 at the same time, is not quite comparing apples with apples. :lol:

In Wiernick' phrase, we're talking about 3000 corpses being extracted at one time. It's clear what the meaning there is. Naraz means what it means in Polish and no amount of obfuscation will change that, troll.

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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:23 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:19 pm
Image
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
viewtopic.php?p=125974#p125974
and
viewtopic.php?p=126040#p126040
and
viewtopic.php?p=126065#p126065
and
viewtopic.php?p=126076#p126076
Werd, room 1 is important. Show me your evidence as to what happened inside room 1. Explain how the level of cyanide Rudolf detected in room 1 (I think in 1998) evidences what happened inside that room in 1943 to 1944.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:25 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:21 pm
For example, "society only tolerates one change at a time", does not mean that change is instantaneous and happens in one go.
In this phrase we're talking about one thing at a time. One in succession after the other. So comparing it with a Wiernick sentence that talks about MORE THAN ONE THING, IN FACT, 3000 at the same time, is not quite comparing apples with apples. :lol:

In Wiernick' phrase, we're talking about 3000 corpses being extracted at one time. It's clear what the meaning there is. Naraz means what it means in Polish and no amount of obfuscation will change that, troll.
One thing at one time can mean digging out a grave of 3000 corpses, with an excavator working continuously for a few hours unearthing bodies until a total of 3000 had been reached.

You are making the stupid claim one excavator, in one massive scoop, unearthed 3000 bodies. That is stupid and you are clearly resorting to the fallacy of argument from incredulity.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

As I said here
viewtopic.php?p=125974#p125974
I don't respond to shitty diagrams. I also don't answer questions that lack specifics. Especially since I was kind enough to give specifics out in the past about which room in which Krema had what inside of it.

viewtopic.php?p=126040#p126040
viewtopic.php?p=126065#p126065
viewtopic.php?p=126076#p126076
One thing at one time can mean digging out a grave of 3000 corpses, with an excavator working continuously for a few hours unearthing bodies until a total of 3000 had been reached.
Can = Does in Nessie's mind.
You are making the stupid claim one excavator, in one massive scoop, unearthed 3000 bodies.
Nope. That's Wiernick. And yes it is stupid. Thank you for agreeing with me. :lol:
That is stupid and you are clearly resorting to the fallacy of argument from incredulity.
How can I be fallacious in my skepticism that it would be possible to extract 3000 corpses at once in one fell swoop, if you just admitted that such a thing is in fact stupid? :lol: Can you stop contradicting yourself, jumping all over the place and take this stuff seriously?

Oh wait, nevermind. Look who I'm asking to do what... :roll:
Last edited by Werd on Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nessie
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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:37 pm
As I said here
viewtopic.php?p=125974#p125974
I don't respond to shitty diagrams. I also don't answer questions that lack specifics. Especially since I was kind enough to give specifics out in the past.

viewtopic.php?p=126040#p126040
and
viewtopic.php?p=126065#p126065
and
viewtopic.php?p=126076#p126076
I am being very specific. This is a basic plan of krema II. What happened inside the room marked 1 between summer 1943 and autumn 1944?

Image

How does the samples Rudolf took evidence what happened in room 1?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:40 pm
This is a basic plan of krema II.
THANK YOU! FINALLY!
What happened inside the room marked 1 between summer 1943 and autumn 1944?

Image
If that's Krema II, then you must be referring to the Vergasungskellar.
viewtopic.php?p=126040#p126040
Werd wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:28 pm
Krema II has a vergasungskellar and it's the only place that has a leichenkeller that was called that. Until more documents come to light, and we get more than just the one instance of Vergasungskellar that we have now, I'm sticking with only believing there was the one gas protection shelter.

Krema III did have at least one room that was a shower room. 14 shower heads prove this. The lack of a central sauna and other factors in Crowell's article establish they were an ad hoc creation; especially after a few people CLEARLY WANTED a BIGGER ROOM to be the shower room with nearly 100 showers. But it failed! So they had to get moving on the central sauna, didn't they?

Krema IV and V. Until I see more documents from 1943 come to light, I have no reason to believe any shower heads were installed there. Besides, the central sauna was up and running by 1944.
viewtopic.php?p=125974#p125974
Werd wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:29 am
I'm not responding to shitty diagrams.

Nessie asked me in the other topic what was more likely for the gas protection shelter. It was at the bottom of Butz page 474 and the bottom half of page 475. It was leichenkeller 1 of Krema II. Now let's look at this.
Bischoff's telegram to Prüfer was overly ambitious and probably deliberately so. The overall thrust of the report is that Bischoff wished to reassure Kammler that, despite the delays in construction, work was proceeding energetically to solve all the issues related to camp hygiene. Our surmise is that showers never could have been installed, but it made an impressive figure to report to Kammler, by way of a copy of the telegram to Prüfer. It also appears that Bischoff seemed to waver on the location: one hundred showers would make most sense in the largest morgue (morgue 2, the "undressing room"). But in the end a smaller number of showers was installed in the smaller morgue. The modest number of showers actually installed could also be explained by the failure to exploit the high volume source of thermal energy that the incinerator would have provided.
Morgue 2 was the largest in Krema III but not chosen for showers. As Butz showed, morgue 1 of Krema II was the gas protection shelter. So let's think about what we've got here.

We've got at least one leichenkeller in one krema made into ad hoc showers in 1943 due to the lack of a central sauna that only came about in 1944.

We have at least one leichenkeller in a different krema being a gas protection shelter.

What's so complicated?
viewtopic.php?p=126076#p126076
Werd wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:22 pm
Which room in krema III was the shower?
As shown earlier it could not have been leichenkeller 2. It was the largest room and that is obviously where someone wanted to put those 100 showers that never ended up happening. So it was either leichenkeller 1 or 3 in Krema III.
you have no...documents to there being a shower conversion in krema III.
Isn't it funny how Nessie loves to shove a document in my face about 14 shower heads as if it proves anything for him. Yet when I USE IT to say hey there were real showers in Krema III, suddenly this document doesn't exist.
Again, this has all been debated and solved before. When we actually consult proper diagrams, get specific about rooms and kremas, we find different rooms for different purposes. Hence, no true contradiction anywhere between Rudolf and Mattogno regarding some certain room being used for either A or B purpose at time X. Nessie can either provide quotes and page numbers or links showing Mattogno and Rudolf disagree somewhere on a certain room in a certain building being used for purpose A or B at the same time X, or he can shut up. Specifics...OR NOTHING!!!

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Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:41 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:40 pm
This is a basic plan of krema II.
THANK YOU! FINALLY!
What happened inside the room marked 1 between summer 1943 and autumn 1944?

Image
If that's Krema II, then you must be referring to the Vergasungskellar.
viewtopic.php?p=126040#p126040
Werd wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:28 pm
Krema II has a vergasungskellar and it's the only place that has a leichenkeller that was called that. Until more documents come to light, and we get more than just the one instance of Vergasungskellar that we have now, I'm sticking with only believing there was the one gas protection shelter.
Do you accept that Rudolf finding traces of cyanide in the wall is not evidence to back up the claim it was used as a gas protection room? If anything it contradicts that claim, as there was at some point, gas inside the room sufficient to leave traces in the walls. How do you evidence that it was actually constructed and used?
Krema III did have at least one room that was a shower room. 14 shower heads prove this. The lack of a central sauna and other factors in Crowell's article establish they were an ad hoc creation; especially after a few people CLEARLY WANTED a BIGGER ROOM to be the shower room with nearly 100 showers. But it failed! So they had to get moving on the central sauna, didn't they?

Krema IV and V. Until I see more documents from 1943 come to light, I have no reason to believe any shower heads were installed there. Besides, the central sauna was up and running by 1944.
viewtopic.php?p=125974#p125974
Werd wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:29 am
I'm not responding to shitty diagrams.

Nessie asked me in the other topic what was more likely for the gas protection shelter. It was at the bottom of Butz page 474 and the bottom half of page 475. It was leichenkeller 1 of Krema II. Now let's look at this.
Bischoff's telegram to Prüfer was overly ambitious and probably deliberately so. The overall thrust of the report is that Bischoff wished to reassure Kammler that, despite the delays in construction, work was proceeding energetically to solve all the issues related to camp hygiene. Our surmise is that showers never could have been installed, but it made an impressive figure to report to Kammler, by way of a copy of the telegram to Prüfer. It also appears that Bischoff seemed to waver on the location: one hundred showers would make most sense in the largest morgue (morgue 2, the "undressing room"). But in the end a smaller number of showers was installed in the smaller morgue. The modest number of showers actually installed could also be explained by the failure to exploit the high volume source of thermal energy that the incinerator would have provided.
Morgue 2 was the largest in Krema III but not chosen for showers. As Butz showed, morgue 1 of Krema II was the gas protection shelter. So let's think about what we've got here.

We've got at least one leichenkeller in one krema made into ad hoc showers in 1943 due to the lack of a central sauna that only came about in 1944.

We have at least one leichenkeller in a different krema being a gas protection shelter.

What's so complicated?
OK, room 1 in the plan is Krema II gassing cellar, which you claim to be a gas protection shelter, but you do not have dates that it functioned. You claim a room in Krema III was made into a shower, but only in 1943.

There are no witnesses who claim to have showered in any krema. That is odd since so many witnesses speak of their relief of being put inside a room and showered, not gassed as they feared.

Krema I was converted into a bomb shelter. Why was Krema II not treated in the same way?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
Posts: 10307
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Nessie, this is why your last topic got locked...

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:56 pm
Do you accept that Rudolf finding traces of cyanide in the wall
Did he in fact do that for Leichenkeller I of crematoria II?

Rudolf talks about Crematoria II
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcger.html

Mattogno on Crematoria II, room one, the Vergasungskeller
viewtopic.php?p=126074#p126074
and the whole page rodoh page here with pages copied and pasted out of Mattogno's book.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3307&start=40
and
viewtopic.php?p=126124#p126124
Not even Pressac could deny that Vergas had innocent overtones referring to disinfestation and health measures

Because of Rudolf detected traces of cyanide in room 1 of Krema II, and Mattogno used documentary traces to figure out it was disinfestation for health measure, then there is nothing sinister about cyanide in room 1 of Krema II. And there never was. Hence, since none of them made any talk of bomb shelters, Nessie has no contradiction to bang his fists on the table about. :lol:
There are no witnesses who claim to have showered in any krema.
Wait for it...
That is odd since so many witnesses speak of their relief of being put inside a room and showered, not gassed as they feared.
So Nazis having showers isn't that crazy at all is it? Wanting to create 100 showers to deal with the health and mortality issues is not crazy is it? Installing 14 shower heads in one of the rooms in one of the kremas (Krema III) ad hoc before the creation of the central sauna is not so crazy is it?

Thanks for finally admitting it.
Last edited by Werd on Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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