Actually it does, insofar as that hypothesis would contradictAryan Scholar wrote: ↑Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:51 pmThis do not rule out the hypothesis the Jewish mass graves in DOK 239 could have also corpses and carcasses from gentiles and animals.Roberto wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:37 pmLogical arguments should be met with logical arguments, not with requests for "authoritative (or even testimonial.
There's another argument supporting my point besides those already mentioned. Let's look at the description of the "individual graves" in that document (emphases added):
In all these cases information about the contents of the graves, but no information about who made the graves or on whose land they are located.Individual graves
1. Community of Kaischedoren
1) In southerly direction 2 km from Kaischedoren by the road Kaischedoren-Zesmaren, lying low in the forest, there is a grave with 8-10 corpses, which is covered by a layer of soil up to 1 meter high.
2. By the village Palomene 12 km north of Kaischedoren along the road Palomene-Zaslen there is a grave with 8-12 corpses.
2. Community of Zaslen
In northerly direction 1 km from Zaslen by the road Zaslen-Gegusien there is a grave with 15-20 corpses. The grave is covered by a layer of soil up to 1 m high.
3. Community of Rudischken
In northerly direction 1 km from Rudischken, 200 m from the road Traken-Rudischken in the forest there is a grave with 15-20 corpses. The grave is covered by a layer of soil up to 1 m high.
So it's makes no sense, considering the document's internal logic, to assume that the term "Jewish mass graves" should have referred to anything other than the contents of these mass graves as being Jewish corpses. Applying one criterion (who had made them or on whose land they were located) in informing about the mass graves and another (what the contents of the grave were) in informing about the "individual graves" would have been inconsistent and illogical, besides confusing or misleading the reader.
a) the inner logic of the document (mentioning the makers of the graves or the owners of the land on which the graves were located here, mentioning the contents of the graves but neither their makers nor the owners of the respective land there),
b) it's informative value for the reader (who would have been confused or even misled), and
c) it's informative purpose (if the graves had been made by Jews or on Jewish land and contained animal carcasses and/or corpses of non-Jews, the Regional Commissioner would have had to be informed about the graves' contents that so that he could hold the Jews accountable for creating public health hazards or murdering gentiles, and resented the omission of such information).
The "wall of text" are quotes from evidence or from references to evidence, and mass killings imply mass graves as the victims of mass killings are not usually left lying in the open or buried in individual graves.Aryan Scholar wrote:Could you please stop to post wall of texts with quotes which do not say anything about the mass graves in DOK 239?Roberto wrote: ↑Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:37 pmNo problem.
All this evidence points to mass killings of Jews in all or some of the areas mentioned in DOK 239.
And as it points to mass killings in such areas, it also points to the existence of mass graves in such areas containing the corpses of those mass killings' victims, as it would make complete sense to bury the victims and no sense at all to leave their corpses lying around in the open.
Please, quote the parts of the related evidence of DOK 239 which explicitly "points to mass graves containing the bodies of Jews who had met a violent death".
But we can make this shorter.
Holocaust Atlas of Lithuania:Sep. 30, 41 Trakai 366 [Jews] 483 [Jewesses] 597 [Jewish children] 1,446
DOK 239:“About two weeks after the ghetto was established, 20–30 members of the Special Squad arrived in Trakai. A German petty officer travelled with them. According to testimony from some members of the Special Squad, Martin Weiss also went to Trakai.
“On September 30, 1941, men, women, children and the elderly were lined up in columns and escorted by armed guards – local policemen commanded by Kazimieras Vasilevskis, policemen from Aukštadvaris, Onuškis and Lentvaris and local white armbanders and Special Squad murderers – to the Varnikai forest and shot after many humiliations. The mass murder began in the morning and ended in the afternoon.
“The Jäger Report says 1,446 Jews were shot in Trakai on September 30, 1941, including 366 men, 483 women and 597 children.”
Address: Trakai district, Trakai administrative district, Varnikai village
Victim number: 1446
Trakai police, led by K. Vasilevskis;
police and white armbanders from Aukštadvaris, Onuškis and Lentvaris;
Semeliškės area:In easterly direction 2 km from Traken, 1 km from the village of Wornicken, 1 km from the forest, 1 km from the lake, in a sandy depression, there is a Jewish mass grave 80 meters long, 4 meters wide and 4 meters deep.
Holocaust Atlas of Lithuania:Oct. 6, 41 Semiliski 213 [Jews] 359 [Jewesses] 390 [Jewish children] 962
Witness interviewed by Yahad in Unum:During the first few days of October, a truck carrying about 20–30 members of the Special Squad arrived in Semeliškės from Vilnius. A German man came by car. He and head of the rural district of Semeliškės and the local police chief went to inspect the future killing site. The Jews of Semeliškės were killed on October 6, 1941. In the morning police from Semeliškės, Vievis and Žiežmariai who guarded the ghetto began to move Jews to the execution site. Another group of police guarded the pit. The executioners of the Special Squad forced small groups of Jews to the pit and shot them. The massacre lasted several hours. After returning to Semeliškės the shooters got drunk. The guards did not get any vodka.
“According to the Jäger report, 962 Jews were killed in Semeliškės: 213 men, 359 women and 390 children.”
Address: Semeliškės administrative district, Semeliškės forest, Elektrėnai district
Victim number: 962
head of the rural district of Semeliškės;
police chief of Semeliškės;
policemen from Semeliškės, Vievis and Žiežmariai
Soviet investigation report:All the Jews were shot within the first year.
DOK 239:150-200 meters northwest of the Bovshi farmstead, in Semeliškės volost of Trakai Uyezd, there is a fenced cemetery that contains the remains of 1020 civilians brutally tortured and shot by German fascist monsters.
Kaišiadorys area 1:In northerly direction 1 km from Semelischken by the forest, 50 m from the road, 2 km from the river Strawa on a sandy height, there is a Jewish mass grave about 30 m long. Drainage in the direction of Semelischken.
Holocaust Atlas of Lithuania:August 26, 41 Kaisiadorys all Jews, Jewesses, Jewish children 1,911
DOK 239:“The planned mass shooting of Jews began at the end of August, 1941. Initially the Gaižiūnai military installation was chosen as the site for the mass murder, then the site was changed to the Strošiūnai forest. Two sites were to be used for the mass murder: one in the so-called Vasiliev ditch, the other next to what is now the Vilnius–Kaunas highway.
“Jews held at a Kaišiadorys storehouse were murdered first. They were divided into groups of 20–30 and led to their execution. They shot men first, then women and children. By evening the storehouse was empty and 500 people had been shot. Jews in the ghetto and another warehouse were killed later.
“According to the Jäger Report, Jews from the Kaišiadorys ghetto and temporary isolation site, 1,911 people, were shot on August 26, 1941. It is believed that not all Jews in the Kaišiadorys ghetto and temporary isolation site could have been shot in one day. Thus it is thought that only the last day of the mass murders is indicated in the report. The main organizers of the mass murder of the Jews were SS-Obersturmführer Joachim Hamann’s Rollkommando and locals with white armbands, local police and local volunteers.”
Address: Kaišiadorys district, Žiežmariai administrative district, Strošiūnai forest (9th quadrant)
Victim number: 1911
Rollkommando Hamann/1st Battalion, 3rd Unit;
Kaišiadorys area 2 (Žiežmariai):In northerly direction 5 km from Zesmaren, 2 km from the road Kaischedoren-Zesmaren, by the Bladukischer Forest there is a Jewish mass grave 30 meters long.
Holocaust Atlas of Lithuania:August 29, 41 Rumsiskis a. Ziezmariai 20 Jews, 567 Jewesses, 197 Jewish children 784
DOK 239:“On August 29, 1941, the surviving Jewish women, children and elderly – in total 784 people – of Kaišiadorys and surrounding areas (Žasliai, Žiežmariai, Rumšiskės) were shot. Lithuanian self-defense unit, Rollkomando Hamann, local police and white armbanders took part in the mass murder.
“On November 3, 1952, a Soviet special commission studying the mass murder state determined the ditch had been 55 meters long, 3 meters wide and 2 meters deep. The ditch was filled with corpses up to one meter.”
Address: Kaišiadorys district, Žiežmariai administrative district, Strošiūnai forest (28th quadrant)
Victim number: 784
Rollkommando Hamann/1st Battalion 3rd Unit;
Kaišiadorys white armbanders and police;
In northerly direction 5 km from Zesmaren, 2 km from the road Kaischedoren-Zesmaren, by the Bladukischer Forest there is a Jewish mass grave 30 meters long.