Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

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Huntinger
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Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by Huntinger »

Alonso wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:58 pm
I'm interested in that participation of the Jews in the Spanish civil war.
Proudly borrowed from Judewiki
A minority of the jüdisch population, particularly that of Europe, were active in socialist and Communist organisations in the period between the two World Wars.
Juden made up a considerable portion of the socialist volunteers, with estimates putting the figure at over ten per cent. Many of them joined the International Brigades and the Popular Front to fight in the Spanish Civil War on the side of the Republicans. The leadership of the International Brigades considered forming an entirely jüdisch brigade,but the high casualties made this impossible. However, a jüdisch company, the Naftali Botwin Company, was formed within the Palafox Battalion.
These are the numbers and the places of origin for these Juden.
Poland 2,250
United States 1,250
France 1,043
Palestine 500
Germany 400
Britain 400
Belgium 200
Austro-Hungary 150
Canada 71
Soviet Union 53

Total Juden 6,317

Juden of Interest
  • Shimon Avidan – Palestinian Jew and future Israeli military officer.
  • Robert Domany – Croatian Partisan and a People's Hero of Yugoslavia
  • Gershon Dua-Bogen – Polish communist
  • Fernando Gerassi – Turkish artist
  • Kurt Julius Goldstein – International Brigader, Holocaust (((survivor))), and author
  • David Guest – Communist British mathematician and philosopher.
  • Alfred Kantorowicz [de] – banned German writer (also known as Helmuth Campe)
  • Lou Kenton – British potter
  • Kerschner [sr] – Croatian student
  • Bert "Yank" Levy – a Canadian who famously used his experience to teach the British Home Guard and wrote a text on guerrilla warfare His service in the Civil War was memorialized in a comic book.
  • Vladimir Majder – Croatian Partisan and communist
  • George Nathan – Chief of Staff of the XV International Brigade
  • Abe Osheroff – American communist
  • Roman – Romanian politician
  • Carlo Rosselli – headed the Matteotti Battalion
  • Alfred Sherman – British journalist and adviser to Margaret Thatcher
  • Jack Shulman – American communist
  • Manfred Stern alias General Emilio Kléber
  • Štajnberger – Croatian Partisan and a People's Hero of Yugoslavia
  • Saul Wellman – political commissar of the Lincoln Battalion and the Washington Battalion
  • Milton Wolff – commander of the Lincoln Battalion
  • Zalka – Hungarian communist


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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by Alonso »

What interest would Jews as a group have in the Spanish civir war?
I've heard now and then that International Jewry (or Zionism, or whatever is the correct term to describe that group) promotes communism and marxism, and I guess that might be related to an involvement in the Spanish civil war, but I've never understood that connection. AFAIK International Jewry is all about capitalism and imperialism.

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by blake121666 »

Alonso wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 5:49 pm
What interest would Jews as a group have in the Spanish civir war?
I've heard now and then that International Jewry (or Zionism, or whatever is the correct term to describe that group) promotes communism and marxism, and I guess that might be related to an involvement in the Spanish civil war, but I've never understood that connection. AFAIK International Jewry is all about capitalism and imperialism.
In what way would "International Jewry" be about "imperialism"? That strikes me as a contradiction of terms.

BTW, those persons (who just so happened to have been mostly Jews) who fought in international brigades against Franco in your civil war did so for leftist (and mostly Soviet communist) reasons - as they themselves said. I'm assuming that you were born and raised in Spain. How does someone in Spain view those international brigades? Did they have significance enough to even be mentioned?

How do Spanish people view Franco? Is he thought to have been a "fascist"? Is he thought to have been politically "left" or "right" or "center"?

Do the different regions in Spain have a largely common view of their history - such as is largely the case in the USA? Do they learn things in schools that are common throughout the country or regionally sectarian histories?

Would it be too much to ask you how old you are? I'm only interested in what your generation is - not any exact age or anything.

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by Alonso »

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:16 pm
In what way would "International Jewry" be about "imperialism"? That strikes me as a contradiction of terms.
To be honest my knowledge of International Jewry is limited. In modern times I think it roughly equates Zionism. And I think I can safely assume that all the international policies of Israel are Zionist. Using that idea as a rule of thumb (and please correct me if I got something wrong) I identify any international policies of Israel as policies of International Jewry. From there, we can find countless examples to answer your question. International Jewry is partially or fully responsible for the imperialistic wars in Palestine (of course) Iraq, Syria, Lybia, WW2, and a very long etc. Apart from that it has followed an endless list of imperialistic policies, with the crown jewel being, of course, the worldwide imposition of holocaustianity.

Regarding the contradiction, I just can't see it.
Last edited by Alonso on Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by blake121666 »

Alonso wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:34 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:16 pm
In what way would "International Jewry" be about "imperialism"? That strikes me as a contradiction of terms.
To be honest my knowledge of International Jewry is limited. In modern times I think it roughly equates Zionism. And I think I can safely assume that all the international policies of Israel are Zionist. Using that idea as a rule of thumb (and please correct me if I got something wrong) I identify any international policies of Israel as policies of International Jewry. From there, we can find countless examples to answer your question. International Jewry is partially or fully responsible for the imperialistic wars in Palestine (of course) Iraq, Syria, Lybia, WW2, and a very long etc. Apart from that it has followed an endless list of imperialistic policies, with the crown jewel being, of course, the worldwide imposition of holocautianity.

Regarding the contradiction, I just can't see it.
Oh.

When I think "imperialism" I, ironically, think of the Spanish empire in the Americas and pacific islands! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I, in fact, neglected to ask you what role you assign that to "international Jewry"! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I take you as being pretty young and wet behind the ears.

EDIT: I don't know if you know it or not, but our English colonies in North America (which became the USA and Canada) viewed the Spanish colonies as rivals and mortal enemies. And propagated what was essentially gruelpropaganda amongst ourselves about those Spaniards - for at least a few centuries! So, to us Americans, "imperialism" would more readily be identified with Spanish, English, ... etc.

Israel is something of a bastardization of the term in this context of mine. But I see what you're saying now!

EDIT 2: "International Jewry" simply means the Jews of the world. One usually uses it in the context of the organizations that Jews create. In that way, the zionist project was indeed a project of "international Jewry" and is therefore a part of what anyone would consider "internatinal Jewry". Israel is not equivalent to international Jewry though. It is quite possible for international Jewry to be against any "international policies of Israel" (or vice-versa). Leftist causes are frequently projects of international Jewry. And the fight against Franco was among one of those projects of international Jewry (at least in America it was - but I'm sure Jews from elsewhere must've joined them).

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by Alonso »

Wow, lots of misunderstandings from my post. Sorry about that.
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:42 pm
I take you as being pretty young and wet behind the ears.
I'm not very much into people ages. I have the very bad habit of judging people as soon as they tell me their age. "He's only x? Then he's too young to understand this or that". "He's already y? At his age he should already know this and have already done that." So as much as practicable, I avoid asking or telling ages.

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:42 pm
our English colonies in North America (which became the USA and Canada) viewed the Spanish colonies as rivals and mortal enemies. And propagated what was essentially gruelpropaganda amongst ourselves about those Spaniards - for at least a few centuries!
I'm familiar with that propaganda, the Black Legend. But AFAIK most of what that propaganda says is true. I guess it might be propaganda in the sense that probably the British didn't acknowledge that they did similar things to what they denounced in the Spaniards.

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:42 pm
"International Jewry" simply means the Jews of the world.
Looks like we're still not on the same page here. I was using the term "international Jewry" in the sense described in this thread by been-there. "International Jewry" is actually a new term for me. A few weeks ago I was simply using the term "Zionism" to describe that group of people, until been-there suggested that "International Jewry" might be a more appropriate term. I assumed that it would be generally understood in the sense described by been-there, but I see that's not the case. So maybe Zionism is a better term to use here. Or the Illuminati, or the Bilderberg group, or something like that. As I said, my knowledge of the topic is limited.

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by Scott »

blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:16 pm

In what way would "International Jewry" be about "imperialism"? That strikes me as a contradiction of terms.


Just to butt in here, I have found that unless you are talking about monarchical reigns or something specific, the best definition for Imperialism is probably concerned with aspects of "Empire."

As far as "International Jewry," that is kind of a shorthand for what Hitler called "International Finance Capital" in Mein Kampf, which like Communism is very Jewish. Hitler explained Zionism by noting in Mein Kampf that while the Jews love the idea of Israel, most Jews will not want to live there. The Diaspora are too busy making money in Gentile lands.

Furthermore, Winston Churchill actually wrote (1920) that Zionism vs. Bolshevism was "a struggle for the soul of the Jewish people." Capitalism, Zionism, Marxism are all "Internationalist" movements. Plus, many of the same people variously support each of these versions, which seems contradictory at first glance.

The industrialist Henry Ford serialized many of these themes in his newspaper, The Dearborn Independent as "The International Jew." Hitler found these essays very influential, and Nazi Germany awarded pacifist Mr. Ford with a civic achievement medal, much as Presidents today award Freedom medals for activists and do-gooders involved with esoteric (and mostly Leftist) causes.


Image


As far as Imperialism, today this has become Globalization, or "hyperglobalization" as some prefer, which is basically the old Imperialism with a new Democracy-Capitalist facelift. Think of Teddy Roosevelt's gunboats but now with bankers and internationalist diplomats marching in lockstep down the gangplank sporting their silk top hats. Instead of looking down the barrel of a 16 inch gun your country gets waterboarded by World Bank development loans and fast food franchises.

As soon as President Wilson was elected to a safe second term in office, he abandoned his campaign boast of keeping the country out of World War I to a policy openly favoring outright Interventionism. Secretary of State William Jennings Bryan, who was a Populist Democrat Isolationist, resigned in protest over President Wilson's hypocritical machinations.

Ever since the mysterious eminence grise, Col. Edward Mandell House convinced the progressive Democrat, President Woodrow Wilson that crusading for Democracy and Capitalism on a global scale would be good for peace and expanding stock markets, the United States has gone from a mostly nationalistic and Isolationist foreign policy to one where we actively seek out what John Quincy Adams called "Monsters to Destroy." Channeling George Orwell, Prof. Harry Elmer Barnes would call this "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace."

The late Chalmers Johnson, who was critical of the Junior Bush administration after 9/11, and who wrote extensively on the American Empire and its "blowback," once described Neoconservatives as "Wilsonians on Steroids."

President Franklin Roosevelt was an ardent Wilsonian. He followed these ideals of the Liberal Internationalist set or "Wise Men" as they are often called─many of whom were Ivy League-educated Banker Communists and outright Soviet Agents like ((( Harry Dexter White ))). Anyway, Roosevelt's goal was to end the Depression by covertly planning for war with Japan or Germany despite the opposition to this by the American people and by America First nationalists--and in so doing getting a bankrupted and desperate British Empire at war to bequeath its legacy as Global Arbiter to the United States. FDR was a monumental charlatan by any measure.

Jewish or not, the idea that Plutocrats: Bankers, Jurists, and Diplomats, would be "Communists" seems counterintuitive, perhaps. Today most Academics I would flat-out call Communists even though they might own trust funds or come from good Jewish or Irish-Catholic families. After World War II, the Frankfurt School concept of cultural-Bolshevism was introduced, and understanding them explains a lot of activist and Social Justice movements like Feminism or gender-Marxism and their the Holy War fighting racism and nationalism, etc. This is the new mammon of Western Civilization, with its Holocaust dogma the new teleology of history.

We can really go deep into a rabbit hole on this subject, but the National Association of Scholars just published their "Social Justice Report" on this kind of campus activism. I am looking forward to reading it.

The Neoconservatives are largely Rightwing diaspora Jews (often of Russian or Ashkenazi extraction) who believe in using American power to fight Israel's wars. They hate Poles, Russians and Germans in that order, and their main goal is to fight for greater Israel and Zionist supremacy. Some Neoconservatives like Irving Kristol were actually Trotskyite Communists, but many if not most are "Red Diaper Babies" born in the USA, and they are overwhelmingly Jews.

The current Globalization regime in the United States follows a Neocon foreign policy with Neoliberal economic policies like open-borders and free-trade, etc. The economic goal is an international specialization of labor which will keep labor costs rock bottom to maximize profits for international corporations and banking cartels who effectively own the stock in most modern governments and whole nations. The cabal overwhelmingly owns the mass-media in Western countries.

All of this is a bit oversimplified and runs the risk of conspiracy-theory, but none of it is anything new. One could argue that interest-groups pursuing their interests, often at the public expense, is by definition the Tragedy of the Commons and conspiracy-theory.

But "noticing" inconvenient things, and "pattern recognition," has to start somewhere. And if we accept the premise that good governance and historiography purports to follow the Scientific Method, then honest observation is essential, even if it is messy and fraught with many axes to grind.

Here is an example of the messiness I am talking about. Stalinism purged Trotskyite Communists but remained strongly philo-Semitic until the creation of the state of Israel in 1949, then the Refusenik question became an existential struggle for the "Soul," so to speak. Many expatriate Communist Jews of Ashkenazi extraction then sought to cultivate American global power to "contain" the Soviet Union and the hated Russians, and to expand the global hegemony of Israel.

:)


Below: Anti-Zionist demonstration on May Day, 1970 in the Soviet Union. The Jewish "Weltspinne" or world-spider is the "weapon of Imperialism."

Demonstration am 1. Mai um 1970 in der Sowjetunion. Auf der Installation mit der obligaten Weltspinne steht geschrieben: «Der Zionismus ist eine Waffe des Imperialismus»


Image

“Now we have forced Hitler to war so he no longer can peacefully annihilate one piece of the Treaty of Versailles after the other.”
~ Major General J.F.C. Fuller,
historian – England

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by blake121666 »

Alonso wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:38 pm
Wow, lots of misunderstandings from my post. Sorry about that.
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:42 pm
I take you as being pretty young and wet behind the ears.
I'm not very much into people ages. I have the very bad habit of judging people as soon as they tell me their age. "He's only x? Then he's too young to understand this or that". "He's already y? At his age he should already know this and have already done that." So as much as practicable, I avoid asking or telling ages.
Yeah, I think I keep ending up on the wrong foot with you here. My conception of "imperialism" is different than yours because I am OLDER than you. NOT so much because you are young and do not use the same definitions of things. Or not in the way I'm used to. I'm on-board with your conception of Israel as some sort of colony of International Jewry I guess. It's typically not the way I think of imperialism though. In a sense I see the term as a little outdated when applied to current events. But of course the state of Israel just so happens to fall into that category I guess - after further consideration from me.

The conception of the state of Israel as somehow identically being "International Jewry" is one I haven't considered before either. Strangely enough, before there was created a physical and political state of Israel (a state in the Middle East) I would have taken the term "Israel" as being synonymous with "International Jewry" - when used in political contexts (I would've ascribed it to mean ancient Israel in religious contexts).

So I probably have the case backwards. My not being wet behind the ears is causing me to misconceive your newer terminology. It's simply semantics. Maybe that pimple on the world's ass (that oh so "shitty little country") in the Middle East should be seen as some sort of physical face of "International Jewry"?

Why did you ignore my pointed questions about the Spanish Civil War?

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by blake121666 »

Scott wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:20 am
blake121666 wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:16 pm

In what way would "International Jewry" be about "imperialism"? That strikes me as a contradiction of terms.


Just to butt in here, I have found that unless you are talking about monarchical reigns or something specific, the best definition for Imperialism is probably concerned with aspects of "Empire."
Yes, I think our Spaniard here is treating "International Jewry" as an empire where the colony (the state of Israel) is at the same time the hub. It's a peculiar twist on former conceptions of imperialism but a twist that can be logically made I guess.

I kind of wish things were this simple myself!

But then again he says:
Alonso wrote:International Jewry is partially or fully responsible for the imperialistic wars in Palestine (of course) Iraq, Syria, Lybia, WW2, and a very long etc. Apart from that it has followed an endless list of imperialistic policies, with the crown jewel being, of course, the worldwide imposition of holocautianity.
So this list of things is related to his conception of an "imperialist" "International Jewry". Is there anything that couldn't be seen as "imperialist" with this conception? Germany wanted lebensraum in Europe. That would be "imperialist" in this conception, wouldn't it?

Was the Spanish Civil War "imperialist" in this conception of Alonso? If not, why not?

I'd like Alonso to tell me anything that a political entity does that he would NOT consider "imperialist" with this peculiar perception of the term.

If "the worldwide imposition of holocautianity" is imperialist, is Greta Thunberg being imperialist with her political hysteria?

If a man and a woman get married, is that imperialist?

I can view all of these things as "imperialistic policies" in the way he is using the term. But whatever, what's in a name?

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Re: Juden ... Spanischer Bürgerkrieg

Post by Huntinger »

This conflict has been described as the first battle of the second world war. Juden did not only constitute a disproportionate number of the foreign fighters in Spain. It is estimated that 70 per cent of the medical personnel who volunteered to tend the injured were jüdisch, with yiddish often used in operating theatres as a common language.
Between 6,000 to 8,000 of the recruits to the International brigades are estimated to have been jüdisch, including nearly half of the poles who went to Spain, over one-third of the Americans, and around 20 per cent of the Britons.

The high number of jüdisch recruits to the International brigades was a function of the over-representation of juden in socialist and communist parties – itself the result of those parties’ opposition to anti-semitism. But many of the jüdisch volunteers simply wanted to fight the growing spectre of fascism. As one recruit to the Abraham Lincoln brigade, formed by American volunteers, wrote: ‘I am as good [an] anti-fascist as any communist. I have reason to be. I am jude and that is the reason I came to Spain. I know what it means to my people if fascism should win (and i know they won’t).’

Many of these communist Juden were wary of Stalins Bolshevism inherent with Brutality and murder. The Bolshevist Juden were a breed apart; this is like comparing a Labrador Retriever to a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog. The Bolsheviks surreptitiously planted their agents. Moishe Stern, a Ukranian Jude who was an operative in Soviet military intelligence, arrived in Spain in September 1936 using a forged Canadian passport, adopted the name Emilio Kléber and became second-in-command to the International Brigade’s communist commander. Bolshevik execution squads were dealing to those Socialists who were not performing, which was similar to how the NKVD operated in WWII again red Soldiers. They used fear and death as a means to the end.


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