Document NO-205

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marcom
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Document NO-205

Post by marcom »

I am curious to know how revisionists deal with document NO-205, the letter in which Brack proposes to Himmler to spare 2-3 millions of Jews fit for work by sterilizing them. How can they still deny that there was a plan to kill all Jews?


Here is the translation of the document:

Viktor Brack
SS Oberfuehrer Berlin, IV 8, Voss-Strasse 4, 23 June 1942
[Initial] HH
Top Secret To the Reich Leader SS and
Chief of the German Police
Heinrich Himmler,
Berlin SW 11, Prinz Albrecht Str. 8

Dear Reich Leader,

On the instructions of Reich Leader [Reichsleiter] Bouhler I placed some of my men already some time ago at the disposal of Brigadefuehrer Globocnik to execute his special mission. On his renewed request I have now transferred additional personnel. On this occasion Brigadefuehrer Globocnik stated his opinion that the whole Jewish action should be completed as quickly as possible so that one would not get caught in the middle of it one day if some difficulties should make a stoppage of the action necessary. You, yourself, Reich Leader, have already expressed your view, that work should progress quickly for reasons of camouflage alone. Both points which in principle arrive at the same result are more than justified as far as my own experience goes; nevertheless would you kindly allow me to submit the following argument:

Among 10 millions of Jews in Europe there are, I figure, at least 2-3 millions of men and women who are fit enough to work. Concerning the extraordinary difficulties the labor problem presents us with, I hold the view that those 2-3 millions should be specially selected and preserved. This can, however, only be done if at the same time they are rendered incapable to propagate. About a year ago I reported to you that agents of mine had completed the experiments necessary for this purpose. I would like to recall these facts once more.

Sterilization, as normally performed on persons with hereditary diseases, is here out of the question, because it takes too long and is too expensive. Castration by X-ray however is not only relatively cheap, but can also be performed on many thousands in the shortest time. I think, that at this time it is already irrelevant whether the people in question become aware of having been castrated after some weeks or months once they feel the effects. Should you, Reich Fuehrer, decide to choose this way in the interest of the preservation of labor, then Reichsleiter Bouhler would be prepared to place all physicians and other personnel needed for this work at your disposal. Likewise he requested me to inform you that then I would have to order the apparatus so urgently needed with the greatest speed.

Heil Hitler!
Yours, [Signed]
Viktor Brack

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rollo the ganger
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by rollo the ganger »

This rates with the secret "atomic bomb" extermination method the Nazis were supposed to have used that Speer was grilled about. Or even the mythical gas chambers. There were never 10 Million Jews under Nazi control by the way so what's he talking about?

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Charles Traynor
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by Charles Traynor »

Welcome to the forum, marcom. Can you provide us with the German original of this document? As far as I am concerned this letter is a completely innocent communication and in no way whatsoever adds any legitimacy to your claim that the Germans intended to kill all the Jews under their control.

All this letter actually says is that Brack would like to retain to 2-3 million Jews capable of work who are currently due to be expelled from territory controlled by the Germans. I agree with Rollo, the 10 million total figure is ludicrous.

Although there are some here who might question the moral or ethical need to carry out the mass sterilization suggested by Brack, I do not (weren’t the alleged X-ray sterilization experiments a failure?). Let us not forget that both the United States and British governments both continue to give monetary aid to India, a country which has in the past carried out mass non-consensual sterilization of its own citizens.
Kitty Hart-Moxon (1998): "Believe me, I came into Auschwitz in a much worse condition than I actually left it."

marcom
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by marcom »

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As Brack wrote there were about 10 millions of Jews in Europe, and even if it wasn't correct this is not the point.
What do you think the Jewish action performed by the euthanasia staff was?

rollo the ganger
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by rollo the ganger »

Here are the Germans, in the middle of the largest war in history with literally millions of people and soldiers being seriously injured in battle, bombings, you name it, with doctors, physicians and nurses stretched to the max and x-ray machinery at a premium and they are going to take these physicians and machines away from the duties of treating German soldiers and civilians to do what? Sterilize Jews? Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!

marcom
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by marcom »

You can keep laughing but this is what they were talking about.

Here is Himmler's anwer:
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TRANSLATION OF
DOCUMENT NO-206
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 164
LETTER FROM HIMMLER (COUNTERSIGNED BY RUDOLF BRANDT), 11 AUGUST 1942, ADDRESSED TO BRACK, CONCERNING HIMMLER'S INTEREST IN STERILIZATION EXPERIMENTS

The Reich Leader SS
1314/42 [Handwritten]
XIa/126 [Handwritten]
11 August 1942
Figure 11 [Handwritten]
Field Headquarters
SS Senior Col. (SS Oberfuehrer) Brack
Berlin W 8 VossStrasse 4

Top Secret
4 copies
4th copy

Dear Brack:

It is only today that I have the opportunity of acknowledging the receipt of your letter of 23 June. I am positively interested in seeing that sterilization by X-rays is tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments. I will be very much obliged to Reichsleiter Bouhler if, to begin with, he would place the expert physicians for the series of experiments at our disposal.

I will mail a copy of this letter to the Reich Physician SS and to the competent Chief of the Main Office for concentration camps.

Heil Hitler!
Yours,
[Signed] H. Himmler
SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl
SS Gruppenfuehrer Dr. Grawitz For information.
By order
[Stamp] 11 August 1942
[Handwritten] Br. SS Obersturmbannfuehrer

rollo the ganger
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by rollo the ganger »

It's even more ludicrous. Here's why:

Brack states in June:
About a year ago I reported to you that agents of mine had completed the experiments necessary for this purpose.
Himmler replies in August:
I am positively interested in seeing that sterilization by X-rays is tried out at least once in one camp in a series of experiments.
A little "non sequitur" wouldn't you say or don't you see it?

Also "Top Secret" wasn't typed into a document, it was stamped. It isn't stamped in Himmler's "response".

You found yourself a nice "Red Herring" marcom. Cook it up nice and we'll have it for lunch.

marcom
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by marcom »

He needed more testings.

Brack ordered Blankenburg, to contact the chiefs of the concentration camps for this purpose. Blankenburg's letter to Himmler:

Translation:
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Original
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Later, experiments in Auschwitz were carried out by Dr. Schumann. (NO-208)

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NO-208
PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 166
LETTER FROM BLANKENBURG TO HIMMLER, 29 APRIL 1944, REGARD-
ING EMPLOYMENT OF DR. HORST SCHUMANN ON EXPERIMENTS
CONCERNING THE INFLUENCE OF X-RAYS ON HUMAN GENITAL
GLANDS IN CONNECTION WITH SIMILAR EXPERIMENTS CON-
DUCTED AT CONCENTRATION CAMP AUSCHWITZ'
Chancellery of the Fuehrer of the NSDAP File No : IIa/Kt.
Berlin W 8, Vosstrasse 4,29 April 1944 Telephone No. :local 120054 Long distance 126621
Top Secret
To the Reich Leader SS and Chief of the German Police, Heinrich Himmler Berlin SW 11,Prinz Albrecht Strasse 9 Dear Reich Leader !
By order of Reich Leader (Reichsleiter) Bouhler I submit to you as an enclosure a work of Dr. Horst Schumann on the influence of X-rays on human genital glands.
Previously you have asked Senior Colonel [Oberfuehrer] Brack to perform this work, and you supported it by providing the adequate material in the concentration camp Auschwitz. I point especially to the 2d part of this work, which shows that by those means a castra-tion of males is almost impossible or requires an effort which does not pay. As I have convinced myself, operative castration requires
not more than 6 to 7 minutes, and therefore can be performed more reliably and quicker than castration by X-rays. Soon I shall be able to submit a corltinuation of this work to you. Heil Hitler ! [Handwritten] Your devoted, [Signed] BLANKENBURG Enclosure

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A document about sterilization of Jewesses:

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NO-2 16 PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 170
MEMORANDUM OF RUDOLF BRANDT, JULY 1942, ON A DISCUSSION BETWEEN HIMMLER, GEBHARDT, GLUECKS, AND CLAUBERG CON- CERNING STERILIZATION EXPERIMENTS CONDUCTED ON JEWESSES
..,. .
Fuehrer Headquarters, July 1942
E Top Secret 1copy
On 7 July 1942 a discussion took place between the Reich Leader SS, SS Brigadefuehrer Professor Dr. Gebhardt, SS Brigadefuehrer Gluecks, and SSBrigadefuehrer Clauberg, Koenigshuette. The topic of the discussion was the sterilization of Jewesses. The Reich Leader SS has promised SS Brigadefuehrer Professor Clauberg that Ausch- witz concentration camp will be at his disposal for his experiments on human beings and animals. By means of some fundamental ex- periments, a method should be found which would lead to sterilization of persons without their knowledge. The Reich Leader SS wanted to get another report as soon as the result of these experiments was hown, so that the sterilization of Jewesses could then be carried out in actuality.
It should also be examined, preferabb in cooperation with Professor Dr. Hohlfelder, an X-ray specialist in Germany, what way sterilization of men could be achieved by 2-ray treatment.
The Reich Leader SS called the special attention of all gentlemen present to the fact that the matter involved was most secret and should be discussed only with the officers in charge and that the persons present at the experiments or discussions had to pledge secrecy.
[Signed] BRANDT
SS Obersturmbannfuehrer.

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More:

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NO-2 13 PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 17 1
LETTER FROM RUDOLF BRANDT TO CLAUBERG, I0 JULY 1942, TRANS-MITTING INSTRUCTIONS OF HIMMLER TO PERFORM STERILIZA- TIONS ON JEWESSES AT CONCENTRATION CAMP RAVENSBRUECK
Reich Leader SSPersonal Staff Journal Number 1266/42, Bra /Dr. [Handwritten]
Returned 31 October 1942 by Pol. Administration K.
Fuehrer Headquarters, 10 July 1942
Top Secret
[Handwritten]
Original handed to G.
6 copies-6th copy
1. Professor Clauberg
Koenigshuette. [Handwritten]
Dear Professor !
Today the Reich Leader SScharged me with transmitting to you his wish that you go to Ravensbrueck after you have had another talk with SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl and the camp physician of the women's concentration camp Ravensbrueck, in order to perform the sterilization of Jewesses according to your method.
Before you start your job, the Reich Leader SS would be interested to learn from you how long it would take to sterilize a thousand Jewesses. The Jewesses themselves should not know anything about it. As the Reich Leader SS understands it,you could give the appro- priate injections during a general examination.
Thorough experiments should be conducted to investigate the effect of the sterilization largely in a way that you find out after a certain time, which you would have to fix, perhaps by X-rays, what kind of changes have taken place. In some cases a practical experiment might be arranged by locking up a Jewess and a Jew together for a certain period and then seeing what results are achieved.
Iask you to let me know your opinion about my letter for the infor- mation of the Reich Leader SS. Heil Hitler ! [Signed] BRANDT SS Obersturmbannfuehrer
2. To SS Obergruppenfuehrer Pohl, Berlin. [Handwritten] delivered to Boemer
Please acknowledge. SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Koegel also re-ceived a copy for the information of the camp physician. Moreover the Reich Physician SS and the Reich Security Main Office (RSHB) received a copy. [Signed] BRANDT
SS Obersturmbannfuehrer
3.
To SS Gruppenfuehrer Grawitz, Reich Physician SS. Please acknowledge. [Signed] BRANDT
SS Obersturmbannfuehrer
4.
To SS. Obersturmbannfuehrer Koegel, WVHA. Please acknowledge and inform the camp physician.
[Signed] BRANDT SS Obersturmbannfuehrer
5.
To the Reich Security Main Office (RSHA), Berlin.
SS Sturmbannfuehrer Guenther, IV B 4 (Department for Jews). [Handwritten] SSGR~.
MUELLER
Please acknowledge. [Initialed] BR. SS Obersturmbannfuehrer

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More:

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NO-212 PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 173
LETTER FROM PROFESSOR CLAUBERG TO HIMMLER, 7 JUNE 1943, REPORTING ON RESEARCH IN CONNECTION WITH THE STERILI- ZATION OF WOMEN
Professor Dr. C. Clauberg,
Chief Physician of the Clinics for Women of the Miners' (Enapp-
schaft) Hospital and the St. Hedwig Hospital Koenigshuette 0. S., 7 June 1943 Telephone:40931
Secret To the Reich Leader SS Heinrich Himmler Berlin Dear Reich Leader,
Today I am fulfilling my obligation to report to you from time to time about the state of my research work. In doing this I am, as
before, adhering to the procedure to report only if the matter is essential. The fact that, after my most recent interview in July 1.942,I could not do so before today is due to temporary difficulties against which I myself was powerless and with which I could not bother you, Reich Leader. I mention as an example that only since February 1943 am I in possession of an X-ray installation, which is of great value to my special research. In spite of the short period of actually only 4 months, it is already today possible to report to you the following:
The method I contrived to achieve the stee7.ilisation of the fernale organism without operation is as good as perfected. It can be per- formed by a single injection made through the entrance of the uterw in the cowrse of the czlstornary gy.necologicaZ examination known to every physician.-If I say that the method is "as good as perfected," this means :
1.
Still to be worked out are only minor improvements of the method.
2.
Already today it could be put to practical use in the course of our regular eugenic sterilization and could thus replace the operation.
As to the question which you, Reich Leader, asked me almost one
year ago, i. e., how much time would probably be required to sterilize
1,000 women by using this method. Today I can answer you with
regard to the future as follows :
If my researches continue to have the same results as up to now- and there is no reason to doubt that-then the moment is not far off when I can say : \
"One adequately trained physician in one adequately equipped place, with perhaps 10 assistants (the number of assistants in con- formity with the speed desired) w42 most likely be able to deal with several hundred, if not even 1,000per day."
Please permit me to postpone my report about the other part of my researches (positive population policy) because it will take some time until something decisive can be said in this field.
Reich Leader! The main reason for my reporting to you today, shortly before the possibility of even more final results, is the following :
I know that the settlement of the last part of this particular com- plex of problems-in contrast to the external forces which determined the progress so far-depends now almost entirely on me. In this connection, several minor but nevertheless fnndamental changes would be necessary which only you, my dear Reich Leader, can personally direct and order. I had hoped that I would be able to give you per- sonally a short description of these requirements in the event of a visit to Upper Silesia. Since I have not had this opportunity, I am asking you for your decision today.
In addition I should like to make a further request. It was SS Brigadefuehrer Dr. BZumenreuter who finally managed to get me the one suitable X-ray installation. I am in urgent need of another installation of the same kind, and he informed me in February that he had another one stored in Berlin. He was ready to deliver it to me if Iwould secure your approval.
May I-ask you, Reich Leader, for this approval?
Heil Hitler !
[Signed] CLAUBERO

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Ilol'd
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by Ilol'd »

a method should be found which would lead to sterilization of persons without their knowledge
The Jewesses themselves should not know anything about it
Why? If they were going to be exterminated eventually, what difference does it make if they knew they are going to be sterilized or not?

And why sterilize them if they were kept separate in the camps from men, and bound to be exterminated in a matter of months?

rollo the ganger
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Re: Document NO-205

Post by rollo the ganger »

He needed more testings.
Then why did he say?:
About a year ago I reported to you that agents of mine had completed the experiments necessary for this purpose.
So what became of all this? In one word: NOTHING.

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