Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

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Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:12 pm
You have not explained how his methodology is credible.
I explained the methodology AS YOU DEMANDED. To supplement that, I gave examples. Here they are again.

Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
Put that into the context of all of the witness claims
Actually when I put it into the context of other documents, we see the witnesses are lying. This is why you want to LITERALLY EXCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA DOCUMENTS MATTOGNO FOUND!
and circumstantial evidence and there is proof of mass gassings of Jews.
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382
"6 gas-tight doors....Design exactly like the doors for special t[reatment] of the J[ews]" That evidence special treatment involved gas and Jews.
The reason you idiots claim a code language is because you already believe the witnesses. So pointing to "code language" as proof of anything is question begging. It's not evidence just because it "sounds" good. :roll:

Note to Nessie. READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER. START HERE!
viewtopic.php?p=183602#p183602
Guess what we find out about that document with "design exactly like the doors" THE BUILDING UNDER DISCUSSION IS A DELOUSING BUILDING THAT YOU ADMITTED JEWS WERE NOT GASSED IN!!! THEY WERE DELOUSING THE CLOTHES AND PROPERTY OF JEWS.

IT WAS THE FIRST GODDAMN CHAPTER I PUT UP IN THIS TOPIC ON PAGE ONE. I EVEN INTERJECTED MY COMMENTS WITH BIG TEXT LIKE THIS IN ORDER TO DRIVE THE POINT HOME THAT THERE WAS NO CRIMINAL TRACE. WHEN YOU CHECK THE SUBSEQUENT PAGES, YOU FIND MUCH MORE DOCUMENTS CITED FROM THE RGVA ARCHIVE OF THE CENTRAL CONSTRUCTION OFFICE OF AUSCHWITZ! SO YOU GET MUCH MORE THAN 2 EXTRA RGVA DOCUMENTS!

You're such an embarrassment.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:19 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:12 pm
You have not explained how his methodology is credible.
I explained the methodology AS YOU DEMANDED.
You explain the methodology. You have yet to explain how it is credible.
To supplement that, I gave examples. Here they are again.

Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
Those are examples of the methodology. I want an explanation as to how that methodology is credible and why historians have it wrong.
Put that into the context of all of the witness claims
Actually when I put it into the context of other documents, we see the witnesses are lying. This is why you want to LITERALLY EXCLUDE ALL THE EXTRA DOCUMENTS MATTOGNO FOUND!
A document about another place in Birkenau does not therefore mean an eyewitness from inside the Kremas is lying.
and circumstantial evidence and there is proof of mass gassings of Jews.
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382
OK, so according to you special treatment meant mass showering, delousing clothing and dealing with the dead. So special treatment is not just one thing. It is an operation that involves different processes.

You need to prove all of the eyewitnesses lied. At the moment your argument is documents are reliable and eyewitnesses are liars, therefore documents. But I forced you to accept that you cannot just claim documents are reliable as deniers claim many are forged etc. Then there is the issue of what about documents written by people who are also witnesses, such as the German engineers from Topf & Sons? Are their documents reliable, but when they give witness testimony it is lies?
"6 gas-tight doors....Design exactly like the doors for special t[reatment] of the J[ews]" That evidence special treatment involved gas and Jews.
The reason you idiots claim a code language is because you already believe the witnesses. So pointing to "code language" as proof of anything is question begging. It's not evidence just because it "sounds" good. :roll:
I do not use code language as proof of anything. I use it as evidence that the Nazis did not want to be explicit about what was going on inside the Kremas and that "special" was part of a secret action.

You need to explain why delousing and showering is something the Nazis wanted to hide and keep secret. I can easily explain why they would want to do that about gassing people.
Note to Nessie. READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER. START HERE!
viewtopic.php?p=183602#p183602
Guess what we find out about that document with "design exactly like the doors" THE BUILDING UNDER DISCUSSION IS A DELOUSING BUILDING THAT YOU ADMITTED JEWS WERE NOT GASSED IN!!! THEY WERE DELOUSING THE CLOTHES AND PROPERTY OF JEWS.
Page 47, Mattogno states the documents are about delousing at the women's BA1a and men's BA1b camps "thus BW 5a and 5b". They need doors "exactly like the doors" for special treatment for the Jews. That does not mean special treatment for the Jews is delousing.
IT WAS THE FIRST GODDAMN CHAPTER I PUT UP IN THIS TOPIC ON PAGE ONE. I EVEN INTERJECTED MY COMMENTS WITH BIG TEXT LIKE THIS IN ORDER TO DRIVE THE POINT HOME THAT THERE WAS NO CRIMINAL TRACE. WHEN YOU CHECK THE SUBSEQUENT PAGES, YOU FIND MUCH MORE DOCUMENTS CITED FROM THE RGVA ARCHIVE OF THE CENTRAL CONSTRUCTION OFFICE OF AUSCHWITZ! SO YOU GET MUCH MORE THAN 2 EXTRA RGVA DOCUMENTS!

You're such an embarrassment.
What happened at BW5a&b does not mean therefore the same happened at the Kremas. Mattogno's methodology of only using documents and applying something like a door, that could be used both for delousing and gassing people, to both buildings as if therefore they had the same purpose, is logically flawed and therefore not credible.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:29 pm
You explain the methodology. You have yet to explain how it is credible.
The proof is in the pudding that allegedly homicidal documents turn out to be not that at all. :lol: I gave examples. Here they are again.

Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
A document about another place in Birkenau does not therefore mean an eyewitness from inside the Kremas is lying.
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382
You need to prove all of the eyewitnesses lied.
All I'm doing is showing how you harking to your belief in witnesses telling the truth is NOT ENOUGH TO REFUTE THE DOCUMENTARY FACTS BEHIND THIS FAKE CODE LANGUAGE. :lol:
I do not use code language as proof of anything.
Wait for it...
I use it as evidence that
CONTRADICTION! lol
the Nazis did not want to be explicit about what was going on inside the Kremas and that "special" was part of a secret action.
Cart before the horse, idiot. You're still question begging no matter how you try to avoid it and use euphemisms.
You need to explain why delousing and showering is something the Nazis wanted to hide and keep secret.
Um, it wasn't. They didn't burn those documents that Mattogno found. :roll:
I can easily explain why they would want to do that about gassing people.
Witnesses told the truth and chemical analysis proves holocaust. Therefore code language.

Sorry, but the documents aren't criminal traces and Rudolf wins in THE CHEMISTRY OF AUSCHWITZ and THE RUDOLF REPORT.
What happened at BW5a&b does not mean therefore the same happened at the Kremas.
That non sequitor is not Mattogno's methodology. I've already told you that in these examples about Kremas
Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
HE DOESN'T MENTION BW 5A AND 5B SO YOU NEED TO STOP ACTING LIKE HE ACTS IN SUCH A FALLACIOUS MANNER.

You still lose.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:54 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:29 pm
You explain the methodology. You have yet to explain how it is credible.
The proof is in the pudding that allegedly homicidal documents turn out to be not that at all. :lol: I gave examples. Here they are again.

Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
You are still not answering the question. I will be more specific. How is only examining documents credible? Would accept a history that only examined documents, in particular one that concluded something you were unhappy about?
A document about another place in Birkenau does not therefore mean an eyewitness from inside the Kremas is lying.
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382
Elsewhere, you have argued special treatment was about showering.
You need to prove all of the eyewitnesses lied.
All I'm doing is showing how you harking to your belief in witnesses telling the truth is NOT ENOUGH TO REFUTE THE DOCUMENTARY FACTS BEHIND THIS FAKE CODE LANGUAGE. :lol:
Why was "special" code for showering, delousing and cremations?
I do not use code language as proof of anything.
Wait for it...
I use it as evidence that
CONTRADICTION! lol
No, evidence and proof are not contradictory. They mean different things which complement.
the Nazis did not want to be explicit about what was going on inside the Kremas and that "special" was part of a secret action.
Cart before the horse, idiot. You're still question begging no matter how you try to avoid it and use euphemisms.
It is a fact. Rather than say exactly what was happening, the term special was often used. That is backed up by evidence such as;

""Speech of Oswald Pohl of 23 September 1942 on “special tasks, about which we do not have to speak words”
"Order from Glücks via Liebehenschel of 15 June 1943 on “special buildings” should be “located offside in accordance with their purpose and cannot be stared at by all sorts of people”"
"Map of 2 June 1943 with a “prohibited area” near the Bunker 1 and 2 extermination sites [Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz, doc. 21"
"Duty notes from August Bielisch of 20 May [Leide, NS-Verbrecher und Staatssicherheit, p. 262], Gottfried Weisse of 24 May and Gerhard Appel of 25 May 1944 [Faschismus - Getto - Massenmord, p. 373]: "I will maintain unconditional secrecy during the measures to carry out the Jewish evacuation, and also vis-à-vis my comrades" "
"Memo from Werner Jothann of 17 June 1944 on “camouflage of the crematoria and security measures by erection of a second fence“

Something secretive was happening at the Bunkers and Kremas to do with the Jews.
You need to explain why delousing and showering is something the Nazis wanted to hide and keep secret.
Um, it wasn't. They didn't burn those documents that Mattogno found. :roll:
You are dodging the use of the word "special" and the documents about secrecy and hiding what was happening.
I can easily explain why they would want to do that about gassing people.
Witnesses told the truth and chemical analysis proves holocaust. Therefore code language.
Witnesses, documents, circumstantial and physical evidence corroborates homicidal gassings and we establish that "special" in relation to Jews at the Kremas was about gassings.
Sorry, but the documents aren't criminal traces and Rudolf wins in THE CHEMISTRY OF AUSCHWITZ and THE RUDOLF REPORT.
Sorry, but the failure of Mattogno and Rudolf to provide an evidenced alternative means what is corroborated stands.
What happened at BW5a&b does not mean therefore the same happened at the Kremas.
That non sequitor is not Mattogno's methodology.
He is arguing that because gas doors are needed for delousing chambers, therefore that is all they were vere used for.
I've already told you that in these examples about Kremas
Special basements = corpse cellars. Nothing more.
viewtopic.php?p=183693#p183693

Nessie once tried to say that erecting horse stable barracks for special treatment was code for homicide. I showed otherwise.
viewtopic.php?p=184142#p184142

The special cellars were literally corpse cellars with an air exchange/ventilation system.
viewtopic.php?p=184575#p184575

The doors and windows were meaningless and already refuted.
viewtopic.php?p=184065#p184065
viewtopic.php?p=183691#p183691
HE DOESN'T MENTION BW 5A AND 5B SO YOU NEED TO STOP ACTING LIKE HE ACTS IN SUCH A FALLACIOUS MANNER.

You still lose.
You have never evidenced and proved what did actually happen inside the Kremas in 1943-4. So, I am going with what all of eyewitnesses said happened, as they are corroborated.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
Posts: 11011
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:36 pm
How is only examining documents credible?
Example:
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382[/quote]

""Speech of Oswald Pohl of 23 September 1942 on “special tasks, about which we do not have to speak words”
"Order from Glücks via Liebehenschel of 15 June 1943 on “special buildings” should be “located offside in accordance with their purpose and cannot be stared at by all sorts of people”"
"Map of 2 June 1943 with a “prohibited area” near the Bunker 1 and 2 extermination sites [Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz, doc. 21"
"Duty notes from August Bielisch of 20 May [Leide, NS-Verbrecher und Staatssicherheit, p. 262], Gottfried Weisse of 24 May and Gerhard Appel of 25 May 1944 [Faschismus - Getto - Massenmord, p. 373]: "I will maintain unconditional secrecy during the measures to carry out the Jewish evacuation, and also vis-à-vis my comrades" "
"Memo from Werner Jothann of 17 June 1944 on “camouflage of the crematoria and security measures by erection of a second fence“

Something secretive was happening at the Bunkers and Kremas to do with the Jews.
Finally a new batch of documents. I'll look into that.

Actually hold on a second...would you mind producing each of those documents in their entirety? I mean, one line doesn't really prove anything except your preconceived notions.

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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:01 pm
Nessie wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:36 pm
How is only examining documents credible?
Example:
No lying eyewitness is going to overturn the documents which show the real context of the Swoboda document. Special treatment was meant for corpses, not living people.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4382
That does not answer the question. How do you reliably determine if the information in the document is accurate?
""Speech of Oswald Pohl of 23 September 1942 on “special tasks, about which we do not have to speak words”
"Order from Glücks via Liebehenschel of 15 June 1943 on “special buildings” should be “located offside in accordance with their purpose and cannot be stared at by all sorts of people”"
"Map of 2 June 1943 with a “prohibited area” near the Bunker 1 and 2 extermination sites [Pressac, Die Krematorien von Auschwitz, doc. 21"
"Duty notes from August Bielisch of 20 May [Leide, NS-Verbrecher und Staatssicherheit, p. 262], Gottfried Weisse of 24 May and Gerhard Appel of 25 May 1944 [Faschismus - Getto - Massenmord, p. 373]: "I will maintain unconditional secrecy during the measures to carry out the Jewish evacuation, and also vis-à-vis my comrades" "
"Memo from Werner Jothann of 17 June 1944 on “camouflage of the crematoria and security measures by erection of a second fence“

Something secretive was happening at the Bunkers and Kremas to do with the Jews.
Finally a new batch of documents. I'll look into that.

Actually hold on a second...would you mind producing each of those documents in their entirety? I mean, one line doesn't really prove anything except your preconceived notions.
I have posted this so often, I assumed you knew about it and that was the source of how I can list documents;

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... ce-on.html

It is not a new batch of documents, you have known about that source for a long time. You ignore it because you prefer to post links to pages from Mattogno, which you often do not understand and use to obscure that the claim you have made is not true. HC have posted a list of evidence, which Mattogno and you are reluctant to do, because it reveals that you cannot evidence what did actually happen.

Those documents prove that "special" was an action to be kept as secret as possible and away from prying eyes. It was happening at the Kremas and Bunkers and it involved Jews. Why do that for showering and delousing clothing?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:31 am
it reveals that you cannot evidence what did actually happen.

Those documents prove that "special" was an action to be kept as secret as possible and away from prying eyes. It was happening at the Kremas and Bunkers and it involved Jews. Why do that for showering and delousing clothing?
Neither can you. Asking a question does not add any credibility to lack of hard data or information.

𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝕰𝖍𝖗𝖊 𝖍𝖊𝖎ß𝖙 𝕿𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊
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Nessie
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:35 am
Nessie wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:31 am
it reveals that you cannot evidence what did actually happen.

Those documents prove that "special" was an action to be kept as secret as possible and away from prying eyes. It was happening at the Kremas and Bunkers and it involved Jews. Why do that for showering and delousing clothing?
Neither can you. Asking a question does not add any credibility to lack of hard data or information.
Lying that there is no evidence to back up the gassing narrative is just you fooling yourself.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:45 am
Lying that there is no evidence to back up the gassing narrative is just you fooling yourself.
That evidence is dismissed in its entirety. However, people don't need gas to die, they could be shot, hanged, garrotted or guillotined, drawn and quartered or bored to death.

𝕸𝖊𝖎𝖓𝖊 𝕰𝖍𝖗𝖊 𝖍𝖊𝖎ß𝖙 𝕿𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊
Amt VI..Ausland-SD

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Re: Mattogno's "Special Treatment"

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:55 am
Nessie wrote:
Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:45 am
Lying that there is no evidence to back up the gassing narrative is just you fooling yourself.
That evidence is dismissed in its entirety. However, people don't need gas to die, they could be shot, hanged, garrotted or guillotined, drawn and quartered or bored to death.
Your stupid comments just result in you back on ignore again.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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