Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

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Nessie
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Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Nessie »

In the face of various false claims by deniers that there is no archaeological or forensic evidence of the mass burials and cremations at the AR camps, I will start to collate what I can find online here;

General

1 - Summary of the work at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Majdanek

https://www.presentpasts.info/articles/10.5334/pp.12/

2 - MASS BURIALS OF THE HOLOCAUST - Kyndra LynnBeatty at The Archaeological Studies Program, Department of Sociology and Archaeology, University of Wisconsin-La Crosse 2013, summary of the work at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and TII;

https://minds.wisconsin.edu/bitstream/h ... sAllowed=y

3 - Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard. Chapter 7: Mass Graves (2). Number, Dimensions and Contents of the Mass Graves;

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... _5940.html

4 - Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard. Chapter 7: Mass Graves (4). Human Remains Found.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... _4958.html

Belzec

1 - Summary of Kola's work at Belzec.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... eview.html

2 - Full copy of "BEŁŻEC THE NAZI CAMP FOR JEWS IN THE LIGHT OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL SOURCES, by Prof. Andrzej Kola" (Parts 1 & 2)

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holocau ... 044#p15044
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holocau ... 044#p15044

Chelmno

1 - Archaeological report on the mass graves at Chelmno and the Rzuchow Forest site, by Lucja Pawlicka-Nowak 2004

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holocau ... BjMkCRc_IU


Sobibor

1 - Summary of the Haimi lead excavations at Sobibor

https://www.spiegel.de/international/ze ... 93733.html

2 - Geophysical Exploration of the Former Extermination Center at Sobibór, Poland (link to means to access report)

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... bor_Poland

3 - Sobibór : archaelogical research conducted on the site of the former German extermination centre in Sobibór 2000-2011 (link to locations report is available)

https://www.worldcat.org/title/sobibor- ... /856144176

4 - Mattogno's summary of archaeological and forensic work at Sobibor (Chapter 5) - note Mattogno has no relevant qualifications to review other's work. Page 115 has details of the forensic examination.

https://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=19

Treblinka II

1 - Caroline Sturdy-Colls lead investigation at TII

https://etheses.bham.ac.uk/id/eprint/35 ... s12PhD.pdf

2 - Mattogno's summary of the Soviet and Polish site examinations 1945 - note Mattogno has no relevant qualifications to review other's work.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html

3 - "Earth conceal not my blood’: forensic and archaeological approaches to locating the remains of Holocaust victims" Caroline Sturdy Colls

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/j.ctt21h4xwg.13.pdf
Last edited by Nessie on Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:57 am, edited 8 times in total.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:35 pm
In the face of various false claims by deniers that there is no archaeological or forensic evidence of the mass burials and cremations at the AR camps, I will start to collate what I can find online here;
Thank you for your hard work Nessie; in a war where about 70 million died there must be a multitude of graves.
In a typhus epidemic and other related conditions hundreds of thousands of people died, probably millions. You are aware of reports of trainloads of dead arriving at border camps; these must have been disposed of. The evidence of the death trains has been given multiple times. No doubt there may have been some form of rudimentary cremation at these camps which were not designed to deal with such cases, hence the grills etc.

Why these people would be buried in the confines of some camp is a source of wonderment when there is ample space for kilometres all around these places.

The lack of a planned process for extermination at these border camps suggests another story as to their function; what happened therefore is something unexpected; trainloads of the dead and dying suddenly arriving at the doorstep.

If these were transit camps as has been more or less proven then the prudent thing would be to process the train of death the best as could be done. At Treblinka it would be prudent to get a dragline from the quarry to hastily make a grave of sorts but that would not get rid of the lice. A decision would be made to kill the lice by burning the corpses and to rebury.

This is the most likely scenario based upon the information given. Most people of course passed across the border after processing.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Turnagain
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie trots out his usual line of debunked bullshit. For example:
Thus, the extermination of Jews in general, and the extermination of Jews at Sobibór and other centres in particular, is a historically established truth which does not need to be proven by archaeological excavations.
Thus Haimi excuses his failure ahead of time.

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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Huntinger »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:43 am
Nessie trots out his usual line of debunked bullshit. For example:
Thus, the extermination of Jews in general, and the extermination of Jews at Sobibór and other centres in particular, is a historically established truth which does not need to be proven by archaeological excavations.
Thus Haimi excuses his failure ahead of time.
I am sure when the poster Nessie eats he accidently puts his fork into his forehead. To claim is is a historically established truth defies many things; this truth does not acknowledge the Zollgrenzschutz presence at the camp at Sobibor nor the similarities of the name Czerwony bor. As this poster has accepted the "truth" there is no need for him to comment any more.

The cleared land at Sobibor is identical to the same site photographed years later after this alleged camp closed.
This photo was taken before Reich occupation 1941
Image
This is the same section of land after the camp was in full extermination mode. 1943
Image


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Turnagain
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Turnagain »

Yep, Kola the Klown supposedly found mass graves at Sobibor but Haimi shot craps at finding graves and cremains. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

Well, me for the goose hair. My internet server is down and I'm bootlegging a wifi connection. Fix it tomorrow but this is slower than the second coming and a PITA. CYA

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Nessie
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:43 am
Nessie trots out his usual line of debunked bullshit. For example:
Thus, the extermination of Jews in general, and the extermination of Jews at Sobibór and other centres in particular, is a historically established truth which does not need to be proven by archaeological excavations.
Thus Haimi excuses his failure ahead of time.
No, you misunderstand what he is saying. You think that archaeology alone should be able to prove or disprove the Holocaust in Sobibor, it cannot. Archaeology is merely part of the evidencing.

Haimi proved large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains and the personal possessions of many Jewish people. That, corroborated by the documents which prove large numbers arrived and did leave the camp and the witnesses who speak to gassings and cremations, goes together as the evidence to prove what happened inside Sobibor.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Haimi proved large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains...
Show the laboratory report of human cremains from a bonafide sample.

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Nessie
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:18 pm
Nessie wrote:
Haimi proved large areas of disturbed ground containing cremated remains...
Show the laboratory report of human cremains from a bonafide sample.
Show me the evidence you use, to base your conclusions as to what is at the AR camp sites. Or, do you admit you don't bother with the evidence?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Show me the evidence you use, to base your conclusions as to what is at the AR camp sites. Or, do you admit you don't bother with the evidence?
IOW there aren't any laboratory reports of human cremains. Gee, whoda' thunk it?

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Nessie
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Re: Archaeological & forensic studies of the AR camp sites

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:31 pm
Nessie wrote:
Show me the evidence you use, to base your conclusions as to what is at the AR camp sites. Or, do you admit you don't bother with the evidence?
IOW there aren't any laboratory reports of human cremains. Gee, whoda' thunk it?
Prove that claim. You think everything is in English and freely available on the internet :roll:

Explain why archaeologists are unable to visually identify bone. Show your evidence.

You are admitting you believe what you cannot evidence, which destroys your credibility.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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