Are "denier", "denial" and other related terms pejorative?

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Turnagain
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Turnagain »

Bulldog wrote:
He is a fake, a self-deceiving coward and a holoco$t liar of the first degree.
And those are his good points.


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Alonso
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Alonso »

Bulldog wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 1:38 am
Alonso, answer ONLY ONE of the following questions:

Do you deny that women find you dull and unattractive - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Do women find you dull and unattractive?

Now Alonso, please explain why you chose to answer the question that you did.
OK, now I'm getting curious about this test :D

I choose to answer "Do women find you dull and unattractive?" and my answer is "I think most don't, but I guess some might find me dull and unattractive".

I chose question 2 because answering question 1 would be misleading. My answer to question 1 would be "no". I don't deny that because I don't know what each woman I meet thinks about me, some might think that. But saying "I don't deny that women find me dull and unattractive" could easily be misunderstood as me saying that I think women find me dull and unattractive, which is not the case.

Did I pass the test?

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Huntinger
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Analyst v Devotee

Post by Huntinger »

Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:20 am
Did I pass the test?
Yes Alonso you do pass; sadly this is a Holocaust discussion forum and not a dating site; I am not sure how anyone rating you as a sex symbol, a stud, or the star of Love Island makes any difference to the terms denier or hoaxer. I suspect the poster who asked is going to go into some philosophical discussion on the issues between rationalism and empiricism, which at the end of the day the holocaust discussion is coming down to; analytic a priori v synthetic a posteriori. An ancient epistemological question,


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

𝕳𝖚̈𝖓𝖙𝖎𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖗

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Nessie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Nessie »

Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:13 am
...If Smith the astronomer denies the existence of planet X and then it turns out planet X actually exists, you don't say he was a denier, you just say he was mistaken.
You would call him mistaken, if he then agrees the planet does exist.
As I said earlier, denier and denial are words that imply dellusion. Actually, a quick google search suggests that's the only purpose of the word denier, to suggest in a not very subtle way that someone is dellusional.

....
If he continues to deny the existence of the planet, despite the evidence it does exist, then you would think of him as a denier and as delusional.

Denial is delusional. It demands that the evidence to prove something happened is ignored, in favour of a belief in something that is not evidence to have happened.

There is no way that c1.274 million people had been transported back out of the AR camps, to be fed, clothed and accommodated elsewhere, by the end of 1942, without that leaving any evidence at all. For the Nazis to have managed that, is far more incredible than denier claims that the Nazis could not have built functioning gas chambers in the Kremas, or mass pyres on rails at the AR camps.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Huntinger
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:14 am
There is no way that c1.274 million people had been transported back out of the AR camps, to be fed, clothed and accommodated elsewhere, by the end of 1942, without that leaving any evidence at all.
Off topic and poster has no idea of the 2.1 million Juden transferred from the Eastern Bug boundaries to what is now Poland.
As a pejorative I use the term "flipper" for this particular poster for obvious reasons. This has been deemed inappropriate so I will not call this person flipper.


𝕴𝖈𝖍 𝖇𝖊𝖗𝖊𝖚𝖊 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙𝖘...𝕾𝖔𝖟𝖎𝖆𝖑 𝖌𝖊𝖍𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖗 𝕹𝖆𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓𝖆𝖑

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Jeffk1970
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Jeffk1970 »

Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:27 am
What if I take offense? I find the term [holohoax] inaccurate and frankly more of an opinion than anything. You are certainly entitled to your opinion that it’s a hoax because that’s all it is:
An opinion.
According to you I have an opinion that's contrary to yours (actually that's not the case, but that's a different topic altogether, what matters here is that that's what you think). If you take offense on people having opinions contrary to yours, then it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion with you about pretty much any topic. In which case the debate is settled.
Yet you took offense to a perfectly legitimate term to describe you. So, you are right. The debate is settled.

Naturally you can choose to be offended by the term. But it’s hypocritical for you to get upset by it when you use derogatory terms of your own.

Jeffk1970
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Jeffk1970 »

Huntinger wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 2:22 am


On a personal level even though I try to stay disconnected from the subject it’s hard to do so. I realize that those poor people died decades ago but they died suffering. That’s a hard thing to realize, particularly in the case of children.

Seriously I just think you are disconnected; Some did die but so did 70 million others for which you have little compassion.
Don’t presume to tell me what I have compassion about about. We aren’t discussing them, we are discussing terms and what happened to the Jews during the war. Naturally all of these deaths are tragic but no one is denying their deaths.
There were hundreds of thousands if not millions of kiddies murdered or killed in that war.
No kidding. But we aren’t discussing them.
Do you think that the indendiaries at Pforzheim and Dresden selected targets without kiddies?
Do you think the Luftwaffe cared about the children when they bombed Coventry, London, Belgrade or Warsaw? Or any other targets during the war?

Perhaps you are a cryer, not a hoaxer or a devotee.
Perhaps you are just a cosplay Gestapo wannabe. Oh, wait...you are. Sorry, my mistake.

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Nessie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Nessie »

I am a denier. I deny that the AR camps were transit or hygiene stations and there were daily mass transports back out from them for millions of people to be resettled elsewhere. I deny that the A-B kremas were used for mass showering, or delousing or as bomb shelters (except Krema I in 1944-5). If I deny something happened, that makes me a denier.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Turnagain »

Of course the term "denier" is pejorative. It was meant to be from the get-go. So are the terms, "holyhoax", "holohoax" and "holoco$t". The only difference is that "denier" is a term made up to counter the true findings of the revisionists while the terms "holyhoax" etc. are an accurate description of the fantasies of the holocaust.

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Nessie
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 7:07 pm
Of course the term "denier" is pejorative. It was meant to be from the get-go. So are the terms, "holyhoax", "holohoax" and "holoco$t". The only difference is that "denier" is a term made up to counter the true findings of the revisionists while the terms "holyhoax" etc. are an accurate description of the fantasies of the holocaust.
Wrong way round. Deniers make up spurious reasons to disbelieve the evidence for gassings, mass graves and pyres and then demand belief in a version of history that cannot be evidenced to have happened at all.

Denier is just short for someone who denies gassings happened. It is not rude or offensive. At least Turnagain admits his terms for the Holocaust are offensive. He is lying that they are accurate.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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