Are "denier", "denial" and other related terms pejorative?

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Alonso
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Alonso »

Jeffk1970 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 2:37 pm
Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:27 am
What if I take offense? I find the term [holohoax] inaccurate and frankly more of an opinion than anything. You are certainly entitled to your opinion that it’s a hoax because that’s all it is:
An opinion.
According to you I have an opinion that's contrary to yours (actually that's not the case, but that's a different topic altogether, what matters here is that that's what you think). If you take offense on people having opinions contrary to yours, then it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion with you about pretty much any topic. In which case the debate is settled.
Yet you took offense to a perfectly legitimate term to describe you. So, you are right. The debate is settled.

Naturally you can choose to be offended by the term. But it’s hypocritical for you to get upset by it when you use derogatory terms of your own.
You have ignored the implicit but very obvious question. Do you take offense on people having opinions contrary to yours?


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Alonso
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Re: Analyst v Devotee

Post by Alonso »

Huntinger wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:00 am
Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:20 am
Did I pass the test?
Yes Alonso you do pass; sadly this is a Holocaust discussion forum and not a dating site; I am not sure how anyone rating you as a sex symbol, a stud, or the star of Love Island makes any difference to the terms denier or hoaxer. I suspect the poster who asked is going to go into some philosophical discussion on the issues between rationalism and empiricism, which at the end of the day the holocaust discussion is coming down to; analytic a priori v synthetic a posteriori. An ancient epistemological question,
Yeah, I agree that Bulldog's questions seem quite bizarre :D But hey, even I have used an example about astronomy to get my point across in a forum that has nothing to do with astronomy, and I think it was an acceptable example. Let's see, maybe Bulldog is getting at a valid point.

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Huntinger
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Re: Analyst v Devotee

Post by Huntinger »

Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:47 pm
Yeah, I agree that Bulldog's questions seem quite bizarre :D But hey, even I have used an example about astronomy to get my point across in a forum that has nothing to do with astronomy, and I think it was an acceptable example. Let's see, maybe Bulldog is getting at a valid point.
I see nothing wrong with analogies to highlight a point; I have used astronomical items such as teapots in orbit on more than one occasion. Seems Bulldog has his heart in the right place, but being naughty he is in the dog pound for a while.
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Jeffk1970
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Jeffk1970 »

Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:33 pm
Jeffk1970 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 2:37 pm
Alonso wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 12:27 am
What if I take offense? I find the term [holohoax] inaccurate and frankly more of an opinion than anything. You are certainly entitled to your opinion that it’s a hoax because that’s all it is:
An opinion.
According to you I have an opinion that's contrary to yours (actually that's not the case, but that's a different topic altogether, what matters here is that that's what you think). If you take offense on people having opinions contrary to yours, then it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion with you about pretty much any topic. In which case the debate is settled.
Yet you took offense to a perfectly legitimate term to describe you. So, you are right. The debate is settled.

Naturally you can choose to be offended by the term. But it’s hypocritical for you to get upset by it when you use derogatory terms of your own.
You have ignored the implicit but very obvious question. Do you take offense on people having opinions contrary to yours?

I can take offense at the terms you use. I can also feel distaste at what I consider to be the denigration of the dead.

Why is that an issue? You are free to express your opinion, I am free to react to that opinion. But what is interesting is that you are taking offense to someone’s reaction to your opinion. Isn’t that person free to express what they think of your opinion?

Jeffk1970
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Jeffk1970 »

Bulldog wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:43 am
Huntinger wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 2:22 am
Jeffk1970 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:37 pm

On a personal level even though I try to stay disconnected from the subject it’s hard to do so. I realize that those poor people died decades ago but they died suffering. That’s a hard thing to realize, particularly in the case of children.
Seriously I just think you are disconnected; Some did die but so did 70 million others for which you have little compassion. There were hundreds of thousands if not millions of kiddies murdered or killed in that war. Do you think that the indendiaries at Pforzheim and Dresden selected targets without kiddies? Perhaps you are a cryer, not a hoaxer or a devotee.
This whole "poor people died suffering - particularly in the case of children" bullshit is simply Jeff lamely trying to take the moral high ground so he can pretend that his stand on the holohoax is righteous. Don't be fooled. Jeff [name] has been one of the most immature of all the Klowns, acting like a 14 year old with his childish posts here and on other sites. He has never actually taken a stand and debated openly and honestly. EVER. His craven weasel dodges and childish ad hominems and hit and run posts haven't changed since he first showed up on the scene acting like the cowardly adolescent that he is. Posting on sites like this, with his lame attempts at humor and insults delivered in the anonymous troll way of cowards like him, has always been a big joke and game to him. He has suddenly gone from anonymous childish jokester Jeffk1970 when no on knew who he was to Mr. I'm so serious and I care so much for the children Jeff [name] when his real name got exposed.

To show you what a coward he is, he used to be on facebook, but even then his main photo on his homepage only showed a small portion of his face - even as he remained the anonymous Jeffk1970. But now Jeff [name] can't be found on facebook. The coward is so scared that he deleted his site. Now why would someone who has the truth on his side do something so cowardly? Well, the answer is pretty simply - he's a sniveling coward.

He is a fake, a self-deceiving coward and a holoco$t liar of the first degree.

Don't fall for this sudden fake righteousness.
LOL, I’m still on Facebook. I’ve been there all along. Is “Bulldog” your given name? Did your parents not like you?

We are all anonymous here. There’s nothing wrong with that at all. As for debates I’ve done that here and elsewhere. But I’m not getting roped into your silly questions because I’ve seen them before. In fact we all have.

As for Turnagain, I accurately foretold how he handled his “Jew BBQ” deal. It’s the same as it’s always been. Just like you.

Now I’m going to enjoy putting you on ignore. I actually am interested in what Alonso has to say and you are interfering.

Bye, “Bulldog.”

Alonso
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Alonso »

Jeffk1970 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:11 pm
I can take offense at the terms you use.
OK, so you're taking offence at the term holohoax. But when asked what you find offensive in that term you have said that its offensiveness lies in your view that it conveys an opinion contrary to yours. So you take offence at people having opinions contrary to yours. Not much we can do about that. The only thing you can do to stop feeling offended is finding people that agree with all your opinions and talking only to those people. You're definitely not going to find that in this forum, or any other forum for that matter.

Jeffk1970 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:11 pm
I can also feel distaste at what I consider to be the denigration of the dead.
Which means you feel distaste for every single historian ever (not to mention lawyers, judges, etc.) because all of them defend some account of who killed who and deny the alternative accounts. Again, not much we can do about that.

Jeffk1970 wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:11 pm
you are taking offense to someone’s reaction to your opinion
No, I am not. I have already explained what I take offence at.

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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Turnagain »

Jeffk1970 wrote:
As for Turnagain, I accurately foretold how he handled his “Jew BBQ” deal. It’s the same as it’s always been.
Yep, it's the same as it's always been and you have absolutely NO rebuttal to any of it. Way to weasel dodge, Jeff. LMAO!

Alonso
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Alonso »

While this topic was intended to discuss only the offensiveness of the terms "denier" and "denial", it's fair to use it to discuss also the offensiveness of other related terms, like "holohoax", "believers", "klowns", etc. My personal goal when I created it was to decide whether I would accept that others use the terms "denier" and "denial" with me. However, I don't want to be offensive or disrespectful to anybody, regardless of their actions or ideas, so I'm certainly willing to consider if any of the terms I use are offensive (as opposed to simply being descriptive of a fact that might be unpleasant to some). If we agree that any of the terms I use are offensive I will definitely avoid using them in the future, and, for what it's worth, I would highly appreciate it if others did the same.

I think this is important for this discussion, so I've added it to the first post of the thread. I have also updated the title of the thread to reflect this.

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Huntinger
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Huntinger »

Alonso wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:42 pm
I think this is important for this discussion, so I've added it to the first post of the thread. I have also updated the title of the thread to reflect this.
It is interesting to note that JeffK has assumed that the alleged victims actually existed and if they did were murdered. It is that assumption that is being questioned; yet JeffK and others like him "know" it is true. When questioning the basis of this "knowledge" they have, very little is forthcoming. On this basis that one can conclude that the knowledge is some how analytic a priori and not knowledge at all. This is a faith position and not an empirical one.


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Turnagain
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Re: Are the terms "denier" and "denial" pejorative?

Post by Turnagain »

Alonso wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:42 pm
While this topic was intended to discuss only the offensiveness of the terms "denier" and "denial", it's fair to use it to discuss also the offensiveness of other related terms, like "holohoax", "believers", "klowns", etc. My personal goal when I created it was to decide whether I would accept that others use the terms "denier" and "denial" with me. However, I don't want to be offensive or disrespectful to anybody, regardless of their actions or ideas, so I'm certainly willing to consider if any of the terms I use are offensive (as opposed to simply being descriptive of a fact that might be unpleasant to some). If we agree that any of the terms I use are offensive I will definitely avoid using them in the future, and, for what it's worth, I would highly appreciate it if others did the same. (highlight mine)

I think this is important for this discussion, so I've added it to the first post of the thread. I have also updated the title of the thread to reflect this.
You are a very polite and forgiving man, Alonso. Me, not so much. I can still remember my epiphany from my first actual research into the holyhoax, "These lying SOBs". The fact that I'd been taken in like a country rube by a slick carney at the county fair by the Jew's lies for over half my lifetime rankled and still does. I did NOT enjoy admitting that I had been taken for a fool. What I really think of these holyhoaxer slimeballs isn't printable in this forum. If the hoaxers are offended by such terms as "holyhoax" or the "magic Jew barbeque" then good! That is my intention.

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