Where did they go

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:24 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:04 am
Show me where Solzhenitsyn evidences that the Soviets received mass transports of Jews from the AR camps in 1942-3.
I do believe this poster is being deliberately obtuse.
No, I asked you "We know for certain that c1.274 million Jews were under Nazi control and had been sent to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Where did they then go?"

Your replied "Soviet Russia, now write that down and stop asking silly questions."

I asked you to be more specific and show your evidence and you replied "Try and read the works of Alexander Solzhenitsyn, which was the first source of the information."

So, show me where he evidences the Nazis sent the Jews transported to the AR, onwards to the Soviet Union.
Korherr mentioned deportations and evacuations from 1937; there is evidence that 80 000 Ciechanow juden were evicted from the GG into Soviet Poland; the only nearby customs command is Malkinia a few km from the Treblinka railway station. It was also mentioned many times of the movement of juden from Warsaw to Minsk through the Treblinka area. No doubt they must have been processed by Zollgrenzschutz as a requirement of leaving, as were all people. By this time which is post Barbarossa the Malkinia customs was relocated to Bialystok.
There were no AR camps, but possibly Einsatz Reinhardt camps which had an economic purpose; it is evidenced that 8000 people left a Treblinka camp to go elsewhere.

It has also been evidenced that juden walked post Barbarossa into Eastern Poland and Belarus. Prior to this they would have walked across the bridge at the border. This explains why many cities in Eastern Poland doubled in size, forcing the Soviet deportations as well as possible executions just outside Minsk at Курапаты.

It is possible up until Barbarossa that many juden were also involved in the Курапаты executions by the NKVD; there are reports of Polish items found amongst the 250 000 + murdered.
Korherr and Hofle evidence c1.274 million Jews went to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Concentrate on that group only. Where did they go?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Turnagain
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Korherr and Hofle evidence c1.274 million Jews went to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Concentrate on that group only. Where did they go?
Well, we know for a fact that they weren't killed in the hermetically sealed steam/gas/vacuum chambers, buried in giant mass graves, exhumed and cremated on the MJB so they obviously went somewhere. The fact that 15-20,000 of them are known to have left Treblinka is a pretty good indication that the rest of then followed to the tens of thousands of camps/work sites that the Germans had available.

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Huntinger
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:09 am
Korherr and Hofle evidence c1.274 million Jews went to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Concentrate on that group only. Where did they go?
Neither Korherr or Höfle mention AR camps; please do not misinform the readers.
Here is a run down from the report:
Image
Up until June 1940 when Poland was divided by the Reich and the Soviets emigration. During this period Bialystok was incorporated into the Byelorussian SSR from 1939 to 1941 as the capital of Belastok Region. Polish people were subject to deportations deep into the USSR (Siberia, Kazakhstan, Far North).
Emigration: 427,920
Evacuations: 1,274,166
total: 1,702,086

Page 7 of the report states:
4. Transportation of Jews from the eastern Provinces to the Russian East: . . . . . . . . .1,449,692 Jews

the following numbers transited through the camps in the General Government . . . .1,274,166 Jews

through the camps in the Warthegau . . . . . . . . . . . . . .145,301 Jews
Image
It will be noticed that the transit of juden (1, 274,166) in one section is classed as evacuations in another. This number was processed by June 1940 and transited. I suspect that the date is wrong, but the key point is transiting over what is a three year period.


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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:11 am
Nessie wrote:
Korherr and Hofle evidence c1.274 million Jews went to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Concentrate on that group only. Where did they go?
Well, we know for a fact that they weren't killed in the hermetically sealed steam/gas/vacuum chambers, buried in giant mass graves, exhumed and cremated on the MJB so they obviously went somewhere. The fact that 15-20,000 of them are known to have left Treblinka is a pretty good indication that the rest of then followed to the tens of thousands of camps/work sites that the Germans had available.
That you think about 2% of arrivals then left is a "pretty good indication" is nonsense, especially when those traced witnesses are clear they believe the rest were gassed and they have never been seen again.

To prove your claim, you need evidence to prove mass arrivals from TII at other camps, where you can show they were big enough to accommodate that number of people. You need to do that not just for TII but the other camps as well. You need to evidence that by 31st Dec 1942, the Nazis had accommodated 1.274 million people from the AR camps in other camps.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:40 am
Nessie wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:09 am
Korherr and Hofle evidence c1.274 million Jews went to the AR camps by the end of 1942. Concentrate on that group only. Where did they go?
Neither Korherr or Höfle mention AR camps; please do not misinform the readers.
Hofle does. He talks specifically about arrivals under Operation Reinhardt and he lists the camps as L, B, S and T.
Here is a run down from the report:
Image
Up until June 1940 when Poland was divided by the Reich and the Soviets emigration. During this period Bialystok was incorporated into the Byelorussian SSR from 1939 to 1941 as the capital of Belastok Region. Polish people were subject to deportations deep into the USSR (Siberia, Kazakhstan, Far North).
Emigration: 427,920
Evacuations: 1,274,166
total: 1,702,086

Page 7 of the report states:
4. Transportation of Jews from the eastern Provinces to the Russian East: . . . . . . . . .1,449,692 Jews

the following numbers transited through the camps in the General Government . . . .1,274,166 Jews

through the camps in the Warthegau . . . . . . . . . . . . . .145,301 Jews
Image
It will be noticed that the transit of juden (1, 274,166) in one section is classed as evacuations in another. This number was processed by June 1940 and transited. I suspect that the date is wrong, but the key point is transiting over what is a three year period.
The 1.274 million is the number sent to the camps in the GC, according to Korherr (which is when L, B, S and T are located) and had that number of arrivals, according to Hofle.

Those people were in Nazi custody and were sent to one of 4 camps. Where they go next?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

To even come close to proving your claim that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka you need to come up with at least two (2) eyewitnesses, one of which is a Jew, who give two similar and credible accounts of how the murders and body disposal was accomplished. Until you can do that you have jack squat. Either that or you must present irrefutable proof of mass graves and commensurate amounts of cremains at Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. The bullshit pencil drawings of Kola aren't acceptable as proof of mass graves or cremains at Belzec.

That will obviously result in a veritable barrage of weasel dodging but no results. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:49 pm
To even come close to proving your claim that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka you need to come up with at least two (2) eyewitnesses, one of which is a Jew, who give two similar and credible accounts of how the murders and body disposal was accomplished. Until you can do that you have jack squat. Either that or you must present irrefutable proof of mass graves and commensurate amounts of cremains at Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. The bullshit pencil drawings of Kola aren't acceptable as proof of mass graves or cremains at Belzec.

That will obviously result in a veritable barrage of weasel dodging but no results. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
That has already been done. In this thread you were supposed to provide sufficient evidence to prove mass daily departures from the AR camps and show where those people went to be accommodated. You have failed. That is why you are now blatantly try to go off topic.

It is physically impossible for the Nazis to have done what you allege they did. It is physically impossible to have accommodated 1.274 million people from the AR camps, by the end of 1942, without that leaving any evidence.

The evidence of very limited transports of some workers from Belzec, Sobibor and TII is the exception that proves the rule. When people left the AR camps, at least some evidence, from an occasional witness or document resulted. You demand that despite only 1% of arrivals at TII being evidenced to have left, we should believe the other 99% also left.

If no one had been gassed at an AR camp or in an A-B krema, then there would have been an extra c2.5 million people in Nazi camps by the end of the war. Instead of finding camps packed with prisoners, in 1945 the Soviets found mostly empty camps and the western Allies found a few hundred thousand, the largest number being 60,000 at Bergen-Belsen.

The la-la land hoax is denial's demand we believe what it cannot evidence at all, from any source.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

The Germans had tens of thousands of camps/work sites to send the deportees from the AR camps. Why weren't they used? 'Cause Nessie said so. It was impossible for the eeevul Narzis to do that just because.

Nessie can't come up with one witness to the 15-20,000 who are known to have left Treblinka but demands proof that over a million left the AR camps. Nessie can't even come up with two witnesses to the alleged homicidal events at Treblinka let alone witnesses to the deportees leaving T-II by the trainload but he demands absolute proof of how those deportees ended up in camps and worksites anywhere from Russia to Germany.

"Where did they goooooo?" the eternal wail of Nessie. No rational answers need apply.

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Nessie
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:22 pm
The Germans had tens of thousands of camps/work sites to send the deportees from the AR camps. Why weren't they used? 'Cause Nessie said so. It was impossible for the eeevul Narzis to do that just because.
If c1.274 million went to tens of thousands of camps in 1942 from the A camps, there would be a lot more evidence that a few records at Majdanek and some witnesses, who say they left with at most another 8000 people.
Nessie can't come up with one witness to the 15-20,000 who are known to have left Treblinka but demands proof that over a million left the AR camps.
I have named 40 witnesses who were on small work transports and one train station master who noted people left TII. You bizarrely claim it is then OK for you to have no witnesses at all to multiple mass transports from TII :roll:
Nessie can't even come up with two witnesses to the alleged homicidal events at Treblinka...
I have given you the names of multiple witnesses and explained at length how their evidence can be assessed accurately.
... let alone witnesses to the deportees leaving T-II by the trainload but he demands absolute proof of how those deportees ended up in camps and worksites anywhere from Russia to Germany.

"Where did they goooooo?" the eternal wail of Nessie. No rational answers need apply.
The wailing is from you, as you cannot evidence mass departures.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Turnagain
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Re: Where did they go

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie has the witnesses who claim to have left Treblinka and lies about Zabecki witnessing them doing so. Other than than, that, zip, zero, nada. You've given the names of alleged witnesses and weasel dodged what they said. Just two names and quote what they said and you can't do that. All you have is some bullshit from holyhoax la-la land.

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