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Re: Where did they go

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:18 pm
by Turnagain
Time for you to prove your claim that only 2,000-3,000 left the camp. Hop to it.

Why do you deny the witness testimony that deportees were sent to Budzyn, Auschwitz, Majdanek and all of the camps mentioned in the USHMM records?

There were 708 camps in the GG. List the size of those camps and work sites.

There wasn't any proof that the thousands who left T-II were accommodated and maintained by the Germans. There still isn't any proof of the maintenance of those deportees beyond their survival. Your wail of, "Where did they gooooo?" and your demand for documented evidence of their upkeep is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

Your claim that deportees were steamed/gassed/vacuumed in hermetically sealed chambers, buried...etc. at T-II is bullshit, too.

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:39 am
by Huntinger
Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:18 pm
Time for you to prove your claim that only 2,000-3,000 left the camp. Hop to it.
Your opponent has already done several revolutions on his carousel of ineptitude. Ira D. Wallach Professor of History, Mark Mazower has mentioned that ‘ A total of close to ninety million people were either killed or displaced in Europe between the years 1938 and 1948. More than twelve million Germans forced out of their homes in Central and Eastern Europe as well as the DPs, refugees, while others forcibly moved in what are euphemistically called ‘population transfers’; this being part of the history of the twentieth century in Europe, and not an isolated episode.
Of all those people killed or displaced very few records remain. Enemies of the people, that is, landowners and factory-owners as well as proven collaborators, were executed or deported by the soviets to reshape society. While juden were interned in one of the 192 konzentrationslager on Polish soil many also worked on farms in what was once Soviet occupied territory but well behind the front. At the end of the war most of these people were annexed and interned by the Soviet occupation, being displaced person; many were transported inland post war to central Siberia.

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:35 am
by Turnagain
Jeezus H, Hunt, that's well nigh incomprehensible. Yet here's Nessie demanding itineraries and a strict accounting for the maintenance of less than 1 million people that were allegedly shuffled through Treblinka. Where did they stay? How were they fed and clothed? From the millions for which not even a record if they were/are alive or dead. "Population Transfers" indeed, and Nessie wails, "Where did they gooooo"? Unbelievable.

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:47 am
by been-there
Huntinger wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:39 am
Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:18 pm
Time for you to prove your claim that only 2,000-3,000 left the camp. Hop to it.
Your opponent has already done several revolutions on his carousel of ineptitude. Ira D. Wallach Professor of History, Mark Mazower has mentioned that ‘ A total of close to ninety million people were either killed or displaced in Europe between the years 1938 and 1948.
More than twelve million Germans forced out of their homes in Central and Eastern Europe as well as the DPs, refugees, while others forcibly moved in what are euphemistically called ‘population transfers’; this being part of the history of the twentieth century in Europe, and not an isolated episode.
Of all those people killed or displaced very few records remain.
'Enemies of the people', that is, landowners and factory-owners as well as proven collaborators, were executed or deported by the soviets to reshape society. While juden were interned in one of the 192 konzentrationslager on Polish soil many also worked on farms in what was once Soviet occupied territory but well behind the front. At the end of the war most of these people were annexed and interned by the Soviet occupation, being displaced person; many were transported inland post war to central Siberia.
Good reply!

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:08 am
by Nessie
Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:18 pm
Time for you to prove your claim that only 2,000-3,000 left the camp. Hop to it.
I posted a link to the study here, just one page ago;

viewtopic.php?p=176058#p176058

There is a lot of reading, that is why you ignored it.
Why do you deny the witness testimony that deportees were sent to Budzyn, Auschwitz, Majdanek and all of the camps mentioned in the USHMM records?
I have pointed out that only some witnesses can be conformed as to which camps they were at and where they went to from TII.
There were 708 camps in the GG. List the size of those camps and work sites.
It is Hunts claim, ask him. In any case, it is your claim that c840,000 people went from TII to other camps, so it is your job to evidence that.
There wasn't any proof that the thousands who left T-II were accommodated and maintained by the Germans.
There is for the witnesses who were interviewed in the 1950s, about their time in camps as Nazi prisoners. If a prisoner is to sent to work at Majdanek and they are there working for the next few months or even years, then of course they are being fed, clothed and accommodated. Plus the camps have records showing the resources used to keep the camps going and the physical evidence of barracks, kitchens, latrines etc to show their size.
There still isn't any proof of the maintenance of those deportees beyond their survival. Your wail of, "Where did they gooooo?" and your demand for documented evidence of their upkeep is pure, unadulterated bullshit.

Your claim that deportees were steamed/gassed/vacuumed in hermetically sealed chambers, buried...etc. at T-II is bullshit, too.
It is not bullshit to get you to evidence and prove your claims

It is up to you to evidence that the other c840,000 went to other camps or explain how it is physically possible for the Nazis to have transported, fed, clothed and accommodated c840,000 from TII, over 13 months in 1942-3, till the end of the war in 1945, without leaving any witness, documentary or physical evidence. How did the Nazis manage to do that?

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:14 am
by Nessie
Turnagain wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:35 am
Jeezus H, Hunt, that's well nigh incomprehensible. Yet here's Nessie demanding itineraries and a strict accounting for the maintenance of less than 1 million people that were allegedly shuffled through Treblinka. Where did they stay? How were they fed and clothed?
It is up to you to evidence that the other c840,000 went to other camps or explain how it is physically possible for the Nazis to have transported, fed, clothed and accommodated c840,000 from TII, over 13 months in 1942-3, till the end of the war in 1945, without leaving any witness, documentary or physical evidence. How did the Nazis manage to do that?
From the millions for which not even a record if they were/are alive or dead. "Population Transfers" indeed, and Nessie wails, "Where did they gooooo"? Unbelievable.
There are multiple records and witnesses of transports to TII, sufficient to prove that happened. That evidence trail runs out at TII. There are only two ways that could have happened, they were gassed or they were somehow hidden away somewhere else for the next 2 years by the Nazis and then after the war, who knows?

Your claim that they could not have been gassed is based only on a series of arguments using logical fallacies and a pseudo-scientific argument. It is easy to show how gassing happened. Your claim that all those people were hidden away leaving no evidence is physically impossible.

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:20 am
by Huntinger
Turnagain wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:35 am
Nessie wails, "Where did they gooooo"? Unbelievable.
Pathetic in a thread to discuss that issue. There is no evidence of missing people, except for the 90 million dead or displaced; there should be more interest in those people than some jüdische fantasy story.

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:23 am
by Nessie
been-there wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:47 am
Huntinger wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:39 am
Turnagain wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:18 pm
Time for you to prove your claim that only 2,000-3,000 left the camp. Hop to it.
Your opponent has already done several revolutions on his carousel of ineptitude. Ira D. Wallach Professor of History, Mark Mazower has mentioned that ‘ A total of close to ninety million people were either killed or displaced in Europe between the years 1938 and 1948.
More than twelve million Germans forced out of their homes in Central and Eastern Europe as well as the DPs, refugees, while others forcibly moved in what are euphemistically called ‘population transfers’; this being part of the history of the twentieth century in Europe, and not an isolated episode.
Of all those people killed or displaced very few records remain.
'Enemies of the people', that is, landowners and factory-owners as well as proven collaborators, were executed or deported by the soviets to reshape society. While juden were interned in one of the 192 konzentrationslager on Polish soil many also worked on farms in what was once Soviet occupied territory but well behind the front. At the end of the war most of these people were annexed and interned by the Soviet occupation, being displaced person; many were transported inland post war to central Siberia.
Good reply!
The Nazis kept detailed records of the Jews they registered and then accommodated in ghettos. They then kept detailed records of transports from the ghettos to camps such as TII. Once at TII, that document trail ends.

That reply is very vague to avoid getting into the detail about the transports to the AR camps and A-B and the lack of any records of the majority of those people going to or arriving anywhere else. The Nazis continued to keep records of those selected work, most famously at A-B, where people were tattooed.

Some of the most detailed records are of the Dutch Jews. First registered in the Netherlands, then rounded up and sent to Westerbork and then c34,000 were sent to Sobibor in 1943. A few are then registered at A-B. For the rest, the documentary trail ends at Sobibor.

Why did the Nazis kept such detailed records of the Jews, for those records to end, for some, at only some camps?

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:32 am
by Huntinger
Nessie wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:23 am
Why did the Nazis kept such detailed records of the Jews, for those records to end, for some, at only some camps?
They were probably released from protective custody. What camps are being referred to? There is an implication of knowledge, though there is no information in regards to the 192 konzentrationslager in Poland. It appears from a post made the other day (from the same poster) the number of konzentrationslager in Poland was very limited, about 6. This is not just a margin of error but tantamount to pure ignorance of the topic being discussed.
If the poster Nessie could elucidate us about juden in these 192 konzentrationslager in Poland it would be appreciated.

Re: Where did they go

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:04 pm
by Turnagain
Nessie has no records for the 12,000-15,000 that were known to be deported from T-II except the 412 records from Majdanek and the seven deportees mentioned by the USHMM. Nessie has no proof for his claim of 2,000 to 3,000 being deported. Even for that minimal number, he has no documentation for their travel or maintenance. Other than witness testimony Nessie has documentation for 419 people but demands documentation for hundreds of thousands although it's known that millions went unaccounted for during the war.

Wail away, Nessie, if that's what pleases you but your spurious demand is meaningless.