Where did they go

Discuss the alleged Nazi genocide or other wartime atrocities without fear of censorship. No bullying of fellow posters is allowed at RODOH. If you can't be civil, please address the argument and not the participants. Do not use disparaging alterations of the user-names of other RODOH posters or their family members. Failure to heed warnings from Moderators will result in a 24 hour ban (or longer if necessary).
User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 8914
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.Österreichisches Deutsch
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:27 pm
not only is there no evidence for that, most reports from that area are of a decline in the Jewish population due to those Jews being shot?
If the poster wishes to contribute then do so with specific examples etc not vague generalizations, most of which are just war time propaganda. Please give the population demographics of the area as a function of time.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
Amt IV

SUPPORT RODOH!
Would you like to financially contribute to the upkeep of RODOH? Please kindly contact Scott Smith ([email protected]). Any and all contributions are welcome!


User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 30634
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:03 am
Nessie wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:27 pm
not only is there no evidence for that, most reports from that area are of a decline in the Jewish population due to those Jews being shot?
If the poster wishes to contribute then do so with specific examples etc not vague generalizations, most of which are just war time propaganda. Please give the population demographics of the area as a function of time.
That is you admitting you have no evidence to prove a huge increase in the Jewish population as people arrived to be resettled. Why do you believe in something that you cannot evidence?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 8914
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.Österreichisches Deutsch
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Constantly asking for evidence adds nothing to a topic.

Korherr made it quite clear most of the deportations to the East took place in 1942, which does not negate the deportations made prior to this (or emigration).
Korherr report:
Image
Here are some more from Germany, only the post Barbarossa figures in 1942 have been included:
The following statistic stems from Wolfgang Scheffler und Diana Schulle, Book of Remembrance. The German, Austrian and Czecho-Slovakian Jews deported to the Baltic States, Munich: De Gruyter, 2003:
09.01.1942 Theresienstadt 1005 12.01.1942
11.01.1942 Wien 1000 15.01.1942
13.01.1942 Berlin 1034 16.01.1942
15.01.1942 Theresienstadt 997 19.01.1942
19.01.1942 Berlin 1002 23.01.1942
21.01.1942 Leipzig – Dresden 773 24.01.1942
25.01.1942 Berlin 1044 30.01.1942
26.01.1942 Wien 1201 31.01.1942
27.01.1942 Gelsenkirchen – Dortmund 938 01.02.1942
06.02.1942 Wien 1003 10.02.1942
15.08.1942 Berlin 938 18.08.1942
20.08.1942 Theresienstadt 1000 Nicht bekannt
31.08.1942 Berlin – Insterburg 797 03.09.1942
19.10.1942 Berlin 959 22.10.1942
26.10.1942 Berlin 798 29.10.1942
In total 24612

This is clear evidence these people bypassed Treblinka and Sobibor to arrive in Belarus known as Generalbezirk Weißruthenien, how they got there is unknown; what is a fact is that crossing the border of the General Government they had to be processed by customs; the customs in Malkinia had been relocated to Bialystok while Wlodawa ZGs near Sobibor was still functional being on the border.
The Belarus Digest has more to say on Reich deportations (evacuations, evictions) from the Reich.
BelarusDigest said:
Historians estimate that over 800,000 Jewish people died in Belarus during WWII, among them about 90,000 European Jews deported from Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, France and Poland. In contrast, today only about 30,000 Jews call Belarus home, most emigrated
Image
For Belarus one can see a population increase from 1939 to 1951 of over 2 million; this of course takes cognizance of the extended border incursion into Poland just East of the Bug river. Considering that the Soviets deported over 2 million people from that area of Poland in 4 waves of deportations this would account for the decrease in jüdische population. The excesses of the NKVD murdering 250 000+ juden at Kurapaty would also account for some population loss.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
Amt IV

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 30634
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:04 pm
Constantly asking for evidence adds nothing to a topic.

Korherr made it quite clear most of the deportations to the East took place in 1942, which does not negate the deportations made prior to this (or emigration).
Korherr report:
Image
That is how many you believe were resettled in Ostland and the RKU by the end of 1942. Now show me evidence of where they were.
Here are some more from Germany, only the post Barbarossa figures in 1942 have been included:
The following statistic stems from Wolfgang Scheffler und Diana Schulle, Book of Remembrance. The German, Austrian and Czecho-Slovakian Jews deported to the Baltic States, Munich: De Gruyter, 2003:
09.01.1942 Theresienstadt 1005 12.01.1942
11.01.1942 Wien 1000 15.01.1942
13.01.1942 Berlin 1034 16.01.1942
15.01.1942 Theresienstadt 997 19.01.1942
19.01.1942 Berlin 1002 23.01.1942
21.01.1942 Leipzig – Dresden 773 24.01.1942
25.01.1942 Berlin 1044 30.01.1942
26.01.1942 Wien 1201 31.01.1942
27.01.1942 Gelsenkirchen – Dortmund 938 01.02.1942
06.02.1942 Wien 1003 10.02.1942
15.08.1942 Berlin 938 18.08.1942
20.08.1942 Theresienstadt 1000 Nicht bekannt
31.08.1942 Berlin – Insterburg 797 03.09.1942
19.10.1942 Berlin 959 22.10.1942
26.10.1942 Berlin 798 29.10.1942
In total 24612
That is some of places the Jews started their journey to supposedly being resettled in the Ostland and RKU. Now evidence mass settlements there in 1943.
This is clear evidence these people bypassed Treblinka and Sobibor to arrive in Belarus known as Generalbezirk Weißruthenien, how they got there is unknown; what is a fact is that crossing the border of the General Government they had to be processed by customs; the customs in Malkinia had been relocated to Bialystok while Wlodawa ZGs near Sobibor was still functional being on the border.
The Belarus Digest has more to say on Reich deportations (evacuations, evictions) from the Reich.
BelarusDigest said:
Historians estimate that over 800,000 Jewish people died in Belarus during WWII, among them about 90,000 European Jews deported from Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, France and Poland. In contrast, today only about 30,000 Jews call Belarus home, most emigrated
Image
For Belarus one can see a population increase from 1939 to 1951 of over 2 million; this of course takes cognizance of the extended border incursion into Poland just East of the Bug river. Considering that the Soviets deported over 2 million people from that area of Poland in 4 waves of deportations this would account for the decrease in jüdische population. The excesses of the NKVD murdering 250 000+ juden at Kurapaty would also account for some population loss.
That does not evidence a massive increase in the Jewish population of Nazi occupied Ostland and RKU in 1942-3. Indeed it does the opposite when that source states "Historians estimate that over 800,000 Jewish people died in Belarus during WWII, among them about 90,000 European Jews deported from Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, France and Poland". That is a decline in the population, the opposite of what you claim.

When will you face facts and accept you are wrong?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 8914
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.Österreichisches Deutsch
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:23 pm
That does not evidence a massive increase in the Jewish population of Nazi occupied Ostland and RKU in 1942-3. Indeed it does the opposite when that source states "Historians estimate that over 800,000 Jewish people died in Belarus during WWII, among them about 90,000 European Jews deported from Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, France and Poland". That is a decline in the population, the opposite of what you claim.
This is specifically looking at the Belarus area. The historians mention that 800 000 people perished but were not aware of the massive Soviet Deportations that occurred in these areas with near a million Juden and a similar number of Poles. About 2.2 million were deported from the Poland Belarus area; within the population data are the murders of 250 000 juden at Kurapaty near Minsk.

Of course Western Belarus now was then Eastern Poland; what is clear from the information is that thousands and thousands of Juden were sent into the area. That data is wrong as Korherr had about 1.4 million sent across the border but perhaps not into the Belarus SSR.

If one considers the Soviet Deportations the loss of people was not due to the Reich but Soviet interdiction. Taking this into account the population of the total area of Eastern Poland and Belarus SSR would be 9 million, about the same as this area prior to WWII.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
Amt IV

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 30634
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:56 pm
Nessie wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:23 pm
That does not evidence a massive increase in the Jewish population of Nazi occupied Ostland and RKU in 1942-3. Indeed it does the opposite when that source states "Historians estimate that over 800,000 Jewish people died in Belarus during WWII, among them about 90,000 European Jews deported from Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, Hungary, France and Poland". That is a decline in the population, the opposite of what you claim.
This is specifically looking at the Belarus area. The historians mention that 800 000 people perished but were not aware of the massive Soviet Deportations that occurred in these areas with near a million Juden and a similar number of Poles. About 2.2 million were deported from the Poland Belarus area; within the population data are the murders of 250 000 juden at Kurapaty near Minsk.

Of course Western Belarus now was then Eastern Poland; what is clear from the information is that thousands and thousands of Juden were sent into the area. That data is wrong as Korherr had about 1.4 million sent across the border but perhaps not into the Belarus SSR.

If one considers the Soviet Deportations the loss of people was not due to the Reich but Soviet interdiction. Taking this into account the population of the total area of Eastern Poland and Belarus SSR would be 9 million, about the same as this area prior to WWII.
If your hypothesis is correct, the 1941 invasion by the Nazis resulted in many Jews leaving Belarus and then from that point on the Nazis resettled Jews there. But your source reports those sent there from other European countries were killed. I have also shown you evidence that the largest ghetto in Belarus, in Minsk closed in October 1943.

The evidence is against you. You need to just accept that.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

User avatar
Huntinger
Posts: 8914
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:56 am
Location: Gasthaus Waldesruh.Österreichisches Deutsch
Contact:

Where did they go

Post by Huntinger »

Polish Statistics
Image
1931= 29.9m
1946= 23.6m
loss = 6.3m
For the year 1950, a population of 24,533,000; for the year 1955, a population of 27,544,000.
For the years 1946 to 1950: a gain of 5.5%. For the years 1950 to 1955: a gain of 15.5%.
(modern data has the Polish population of 1939 at 35 million which is a fabrication)

When this data was formulated the 4 waves of Soviet Deportations of Polish people were not known; In 1940 and the first half of 1941, the Soviets deported a total of more than 1,200,000 Poles in four waves of mass deportations from the Soviet-occupied Polish territories.

The borders also changed post war, the Soviet part of Poland is now Belarus; Eastern Poland had 13 million (1940) while the BelarusSSR population was 5 million, totalling 18 million.

It is clear that 3 million made their way back to Poland in the 4 years from 1946 to 1950; Poles may well be horny but not to that extent for this to be due to natural birth increases over death.

In that time there was about 7.8 million in the new Belarus (1951) and increase of 2.2 million from the prewar Belarussian SSR (1939); these are the Poles that decided to stay, probably the same areas that was once Poland.

If we add the 2.2 million extra Belarussian Poles (1951) to the 1950 Polish Population the actual number is now 26.8 million Poles. This is now short 3.1 million of the 1931 figure. From this must be deducted the people deported by the Soviets which leaves a shortage of 1.9 million.

Another way to look at the issue is to compare the birth and natural death rates. It will be assumed there would be few births in Poland considering the huge disruption the War has caused. It is a fact that men are needed for birth.

The mortality rate in Poland is 11% (11 per thousand inhabitants). With a population of 30 million this means that
there would be 330 000 deaths per year naturally; from 1931 to 1946 (15 years) there would be 4.95 million deaths from natural causes alone. There are about 9 births per thousand, which means that the mortality increase the child births. Considering it is likely that War would significantly reduce birth rates only the years from 31-39 are significant. In the 8 years the Polish population rate increased 135 thousand per year or 1.1 million over 8 years.

1931= 29.9m
+ 1.1m births = 29.9m (assuming no births after 1939)
-4.95m deaths= 24.95 million after 15 years

The Polish population in 1946 is given as 23.6 million which is 1.35 million down from the expected value by natural causes.
This correlates highly with the estimated number of people expelled from Poland to the Soviet Union in the 4 waves of mass deportations.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
Amt IV

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 30634
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Still no evidence as to where, in 1943, the Nazis were accommodating the 1.274 million Jews, sent to the AR camps by the end of 1942.

Just accept you are wrong and those people were killed at the camps.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Werd
Posts: 10711
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:38 am
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Werd »

Nessie wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:42 pm
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:47 pm
Nessie is still dodging the fact that no Jews were steamed/gassed/vacuumed, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque at Treblinka. Nessie just sputters his "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" and declares that to be "evidence". So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
I have gone through the issues you have with the evidence as to what happened inside TII with you on numerous occasions.
You have done no such thing. You never did. All you ever did was scream "evidence" "witnesses" and "where did they go then?"

User avatar
Nessie
Posts: 30634
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Where did they go

Post by Nessie »

Werd wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:38 am
Nessie wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:42 pm
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:47 pm
Nessie is still dodging the fact that no Jews were steamed/gassed/vacuumed, buried, exhumed and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque at Treblinka. Nessie just sputters his "what ifs" and "coulda woulda" and declares that to be "evidence". So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
I have gone through the issues you have with the evidence as to what happened inside TII with you on numerous occasions.
You have done no such thing. You never did. All you ever did was scream "evidence" "witnesses" and "where did they go then?"
I explained about

1 - denier reliance on logical fallacies as if argument is the same as evidence, which it is not
2 - the difference between hearsay and eye witness evidence
3 - the difference between Nazi, Jewish and Polish testimony
4 - denier lack of knowledge of investigations in general and in particular statement taking and archaeology
5 - denier lack of evidence to prove what you claim and the implications of that
6 - the selections process and how it does not evidence TII was a transit camp
7 - the three camps and how people mixed them up
8 - the construction of the gas chamber and the pressure vent
9 - what happened to the graves
10 - the issue over the make and type of excavator(s) used
11 - how a pyre would work
12 - the issue over thinking a body will not ignite if exposed to 1000 degrees plus.
13 - the state of the camp after the Nazis left and evidence of a cover up showing criminal activities.
14 - the implications of the denier inability to evidence mass transports back out of the camp
15 - the physical impossibility of accommodating c850,000 people elsewhere without leaving any evidence
16 - how all the evidence corroborates TII was a death camp, in particular all the witnesses agree, both Nazi and Jewish
17 - how you have no evidence from inside TII to show it operated as a transit camp
18 - the lack of deportee barracks and showers inside the camp to accommodate non-workers

You dodge the topic here because it is too hard for you to deal with.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot] and 22 guests