Witch Trials

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Lupus Rothstein
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Lupus Rothstein »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
Lupus wrote:
So, the evidence you have presented is invalid, and out of date. And you are wrong to say Muelenkamp IGNORED the Indian evidence!
The nutzoids THEORETICAL 22 kg of wood to cremate a body is bullshit. The "green cremation" device uses about one third as much fuel as a traditional Hindu cremation or about 300 lbs of wood. Here's the article with photos of the green device.
www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/05/ ... -cremation

So what makes you think you are more qualified than the expert and mechanical engineer, Vinod Kumar Argawal, who invented this cremation system ? The inventor knows that it only takes 22kg to burn a body but Indians are traditional and they don't want a 2 hour funeral, they want a longer one. So its a compromise. The system described in your link is still inefficient, it is merely more efficient than past systems.

As you will discover by reading this article Argawal invented a system that required 10kg of wood and took 2 hours, but none of the Indians wanted it , due to the traditions I mentioned :
In 1993, Agarwal built his first pyre, a raised human-sized brazier under a roof with slats that could be lowered to maintain heat. The elevation allowed air to circulate and feed the fire. Unlike electric crematoriums, however, Agarwal’s pyre still allowed family members to congregate to perform last rites. “But no one used it," said Agarwal, even though it needed only about 10kg of wood and reduced the burning process to two hours.
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/RLMRHI ... -dead.html

So, looks like your latest offering just ends up like your previous 'evidence' ,ie in the trash can.

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
Kues wrote:
Glazar wrote that the Germans started to burn the corpses “one overcast November afternoon” in 1942.[12]
Glazar says that the cremations began in November, 1942. Others claim that the cremations didn't begin until early in 1943. The Hofle telegram says that 713,555 Jews were sent to Treblinka by December 31, 1942. That's 31,714 Jews per week. If the cremations began in mid November, then about 190,000 Jews were supposedly gassed and cremated without being buried in 1942. That's according to Glazar.
The early 'cremations' were a failure, hence the need for Floss who didn't arrive until January 43 according to Chil Rajchman. So not many of your 190,000 would have been cremated. But even if they were, what is your point ? Is this your attempt to get the amount of required wood up to your original ridiculous levels ?

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
You have failed to prove that 250,000 Jews were transported to Treblinka in 1943.
Nice little strawman, Lupus. I didn't try to prove that 250,000 Jews were sent to Treblinka in 1943. It's claimed that as many as 950,000 were murdered at Treblinka. It's also claimed that 850,000 and 870,000 were murdered while Rajchman first claimed 1.3 million and Ehrenberg went for three million. According to the Holfle telegram, 712,555 were sent to Treblinka by December 31, 1942 which leaves 236,445 being sent to Treblinka in 1943. If 850,000 were sent we have a range of 136,445 to 236,445 Jews sent to Treblinka in 1943 and were presumably gassed and cremated without being buried.
Right so lets say 200,000 arrived in Treblinka in 1943 according to you. You tried to pass these off as Bulgarians in your last post but I had to inform you there were only 11,000 from Bulgaria. So who were the other 190,000 ?
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
So sorry Turnagain, but your claims have been demolished, again .
That's tiresome, Lupus. Fat dripping down on a fire doesn't constitute the wick effect. Then there's the fact that only two bodies were burned to death in the car fire. Well, and a sheep in the experiment. None of that is the equivalent of piling 2,000 to 3,000 bodies on a grate, setting them ablaze with some kindling and letting them cremate themselves. Cremations of culled animals in England involved laying down lots of fuel such as railroad sleepers, tires and straw and putting a single layer of carcasses on the fuel. Your claim that the wick effect accounted for the cremations at Treblinka is a bust. Try again.
Again, just blatant denial. Even the sheep experiment included a note about similar results in the AR cremations, which I produced in my last post and you have just ignored it. It doesn't matter if there was only one sheep in the experiment, are you saying that there would be different results if there were 100, or 1,000 sheep lined up on seats ? So go on then, Mr Know-it-all, what would the results have been and why ? It seems the only experiment that will satisfy you is if actual 2,000 bodies were dug up from their graves and cremated in exact the same fashion as they were in Treblinka. Ridiculous !
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
Blatant denial in operation here There is a clear 'ridge' under the rails which means there is a trench.
Blatant bullshit in operation here. Look at the ends of the grates. No trench and no "ridge" showing on the near grate. Not much fuel in evidence, either. As a side note, both the Laponder model and the Wiernik model show single cone stockpiles of excavated material. That's another impossibility. It didn't happen with the M&H draglines performing the excavations. That's a "twofer" for impossibilities in one photo. It's a "threefer" if you count Wiernik's initial claim that the magic Jew barbeque was 100 - 150 meters long.
Why are you solely concentrating on the 'near' grate when there are two ? This ditch is full of wood and therefore you wouldn't even see the ditch anyway !!! You can try weasling and being deliberately awkward all you like but it won't help you one bit. In fact it will only make you look more dishonest than you actually are :roll: :roll:

I have clearly highlighted the ridge of the trench, but you can't handle it so you just close your eyes, stamp your feet and scream "not there! it's not there! make it go away now ! " :lol: :lol:

This is getting ridiculous, all you're coming back with is blatant denial of the truth which has been presented to you . Why are you ignoring the arrows I included on the pic to highlight the ridge and the trench ??? Are you blind or just plain dishonest ?

What you protesting about now ? You aint making any sense, so here is the picture of the stockpile with the excavators from the model. What's your problem ?

Image
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
A fair amount of wood can also be seen under the other rails, which you pretend you cannot see.
Nope, I don't see an amount of wood necessary to cremate up to 3,000 bodies anywhere in the model.
How do you come to that conclusion when the model is obviously scaled down ? Anyway, as explained previously, the wood required was not as ridiculously high as you originally claimed, and the wick effect helped combustion efficiency even more.
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
Yep, a trench as shown in the laponder model and confirmed by witnesses. Fuel was poured over the wood, also confirmed by witnesses.
The model doesn't even come close to the description given for the turn of the century experiments. Some witnesses claim that liquid fuel was poured on the kindling, others say not. Cherry pick your quotes much, Lupus?
In experiments 1-3 it states "carcass placed on pit above ground" , so whats so different from the cremation depicted in the model ? We have a pit , even though you refuse to see it. and the bodies are above ground. Well ?

As for the rest of your post, so what ?
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:29 am
It didnt have to be hermetic, but as long as it did the job then who cares ?
If the vent was hermetically sealed and the doors hermetically sealed then the alleged gas chamber was hermetically sealed. Pump exhaust from an IC engine into the chamber and it will fail from the pressure differential. Pump the air out of the chamber and it will fail for the same reason.

All of your Rube Goldberg contraptions along with the mass graves and exhumations are a bust, Lupus.
How do you know the hermetic cap was on during a gassing ? I asked you this before and you haven't answered, so unless you can dig up something fairly soon, this will go down as another one of your failures.


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blake121666
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by blake121666 »

Lupus Rothstein is misunderstanding that when it is claimed that 10-22 kg of wood is required to cremate a corpse that is referring to the burning being done in a cremation oven - which contains and reuses the heat - and that is referring to averages over many cremations - not including the fuel needed to attain initial ambient cremation temperature. An open air pyre necessarily entails wasted heat. One way to contain the heat in an open air pyre system is to implement an air curtain. Those systems are much more efficient than this system you are talking about.

Each and every time Lupus has pointed out this relatively low quantity of external fuel, it is referring to systems containing and reusing heat - not the actual systems being deployed and used. The way they are currently being used is wasting significantly more heat than what Lupus is talking about. The best average in these actual systems in use is about 150 kg per corpse. And those systems ARE somewhat recuperating the heat through the venting system above and around the corpses. Lupus is NOT talking about open air pyres with this.

And when you get into the details of what is actually being referred to, you will find that Agarwal is grossly misleading with his numbers and ascribing too much of the actually used wood to being wasted in keeping ambient temperature - and only telling you about the theoretical minimums he is ascribing to being used for the corpses.

The most efficient wood usage of his system is about 150 kg per corpse when honestly stated. And it IS NOT an open air pyre method of cremation - such as we think the AR camp or Birkenau burnings were - although you can speculate about elaborations that might or might not have occurred in these instances.

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Lupus Rothstein
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Lupus Rothstein »

blake121666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:25 pm
Lupus Rothstein is misunderstanding that when it is claimed that 10-22 kg of wood is required to cremate a corpse that is referring to the burning being done in a cremation oven - which contains and reuses the heat - and that is referring to averages over many cremations. An open air pyre necessarily entails wasted heat. One way to contain the heat in an open air pyre system is to implement an air curtain.

Each and every time Lupus has pointed out this relatively low quantity of external fuel, it is referring to systems containing and reusing heat - not the actual systems being deployed and used. The way they are currently being used is wasting significantly more heat than what Lupus is talking about. The best average in these actual systems in use is about 150 kg per corpse. And those systems ARE somewhat recuperating the heat through the system above. Lupus is NOT talking about open air pyres with this.
This system was just one of several that Muehlenkamp used to demonstrate the much lower fuel requirements needed compared with what Mattogno and Turnagain were claiming . It shouldn't be taken as the sole example or source to prove the average kgs of wood per corpse for Treblinka calculated by Muehlenkamp.

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blake121666
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by blake121666 »

Lupus Rothstein wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:25 pm
Lupus Rothstein is misunderstanding that when it is claimed that 10-22 kg of wood is required to cremate a corpse that is referring to the burning being done in a cremation oven - which contains and reuses the heat - and that is referring to averages over many cremations. An open air pyre necessarily entails wasted heat. One way to contain the heat in an open air pyre system is to implement an air curtain.

Each and every time Lupus has pointed out this relatively low quantity of external fuel, it is referring to systems containing and reusing heat - not the actual systems being deployed and used. The way they are currently being used is wasting significantly more heat than what Lupus is talking about. The best average in these actual systems in use is about 150 kg per corpse. And those systems ARE somewhat recuperating the heat through the system above. Lupus is NOT talking about open air pyres with this.
This system was just one of several that Muehlenkamp used to demonstrate the much lower fuel requirements needed compared with what Mattogno and Turnagain were claiming . It shouldn't be taken as the sole example or source to prove the average kgs of wood per corpse for Treblinka calculated by Muehlenkamp.
Any average such as you are referring to needs to take into account the whole system. How many kg of wood were used to burn how many corpses? In the end, it is THIS which gives you your number. You are not allowed to ignore the waste.

We all KNOW for a fact that very little fuel is needed in the cremation of a corpse in a cremation oven. You are not talking about cremation ovens here. You are talking about open air cremation.

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Lupus Rothstein
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Lupus Rothstein »

blake121666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:57 pm
Lupus Rothstein wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:52 pm
blake121666 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:25 pm
Lupus Rothstein is misunderstanding that when it is claimed that 10-22 kg of wood is required to cremate a corpse that is referring to the burning being done in a cremation oven - which contains and reuses the heat - and that is referring to averages over many cremations. An open air pyre necessarily entails wasted heat. One way to contain the heat in an open air pyre system is to implement an air curtain.

Each and every time Lupus has pointed out this relatively low quantity of external fuel, it is referring to systems containing and reusing heat - not the actual systems being deployed and used. The way they are currently being used is wasting significantly more heat than what Lupus is talking about. The best average in these actual systems in use is about 150 kg per corpse. And those systems ARE somewhat recuperating the heat through the system above. Lupus is NOT talking about open air pyres with this.
This system was just one of several that Muehlenkamp used to demonstrate the much lower fuel requirements needed compared with what Mattogno and Turnagain were claiming . It shouldn't be taken as the sole example or source to prove the average kgs of wood per corpse for Treblinka calculated by Muehlenkamp.
Any average such as you are referring to needs to take into account the whole system. How many kg of wood were used to burn how many corpses? In the end, it is THIS which gives you your number. You are not allowed to ignore the waste.

We all KNOW for a fact that very little fuel is needed in the cremation of a corpse in a cremation oven. You are not talking about cremation ovens here. You are talking about open air cremation.
And open air cremation was the method used in the "Lothes and Profe" animal cremations carried out in the early 20th century, another of Muehlenkamps sources. Here is the relevant passage from the HC article : http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... _8385.html
As concerns Belzec and Chełmno, not much is known about the configuration of the grid cremation facilities used at these camps, but it stands to reason that it must have been similar to the one at Sobibor or at Treblinka, as mentioned before. If the open-air incineration systems applied at the Aktion Reinhard camps and at Chełmno were versions of the grid-burning systems described by Heepke on a massive, enormous scale, this means that cremation of corpses at the Nazi extermination camps may have been done with at least the same fuel efficiency that was achieved by veterinarians Dr. Lothes and Dr. Profé of Cologne, who obtained the following results:
Experiment I (carcass placed on pit above ground): 4.5 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.5 kg of wood per kg of carcass)
Experiment II (carcass placed on pit above ground): 3.88 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.43 kg of wood per kg of carcass)
Experiment III (carcass placed on pit above ground): 6.75 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.75 kg of wood per kg of carcass)
Average of experiments I to III: 5.04 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.56 kg of wood per kg of carcass)
Experiment IV (carcass placed on inner pit below ground): 3.65 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.41 kg of wood per kg of carcass)
Experiment V (carcass placed on inner pit below ground): 4.76 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.53 kg of wood per kg of carcass)
Experiment VI (carcass placed on inner pit below ground): 4.50 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.5 kg of wood per kg of carcass)
Average of experiments IV to VI: 4.30 E.U. per kg of carcass (= 0.48 kg of wood per kg of carcass) [114]
The effect of higher quantities of carcass mass on the fuel-to-carcass ratio is visible in the data from animal incinerators shown in Heepke’s Table

If, as these data suggest, the incineration of numerous carcasses requires less fuel per kg of carcass than the incineration of just one carcass, it stands to reason that the rates achieved by Dr. Lothes and Dr. Profé could also be improved upon when incinerating not one, but several hundred carcasses. It would also not be surprising, under this assumption, if mass incineration of corpses at the Nazi extermination camps achieved better fuel consumption rates than the grid burning experiments conducted by these two veterinarian.
The experiments 1-3 appear to resemble the cremation method employed at the AR camps, yielding considerably a low fuel ratio.

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Huntinger
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Huntinger »

It takes 100mJ of energy to just evaporate the water of a 68kg corpse and more to burn it. This amounts to 1.5kJ per kg of body mass. The higher value of 0.75 kg of wood per kg of carcass might just cut it but the others would not.
Pine wood as in Polen has 19.5mJ per kg; outside pyres are 15% efficient at best which would mean 2.9mJ are available for work. 750g of pine would have 2.2mJ which would be enough to evaporate 750g of water in the meat.

Meat is typically 70% water. The energy needed to evaporate 1kg of water is 2.3 mJ Joules, so 0.70kg as is the amount in meat would need 1.61mJ. If the meat is at 20C then energy is needed to get it to 100C. 4.186 x 700g x 80= 0.234mJ needed
1.61mJ + 0.234mJ = 1.844 mJ, the remainder 0.356 mJ being available to incinerate the 250g of protein and whatever else.

68kg of pine per corpse would be a minimum. A gassing of 3000 would need 204 tonne of pine wood to burn these people.
0.41 kg of wood per kg
Of course this depends on the wood but Pine was allegedly used in Polen to do this function.
Using the same calculations as above 0.41kg of pine wood would only give 1.2mJ of energy. It was calculated that 750g of water needs 1.844mJ of energy to get to evaporation temp and then to vaporize it.
There is an energy deficit of 644kJ or 0.64mJ.

If this worked as the experiment suggested then it appears that the efficiency of burning went up considerably by the use of an air curtain. Like all experiments of this nature they need to be replicated.


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Turnagain
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Turnagain »

Lupus Cohen wrote:
So, looks like your latest offering just ends up like your previous 'evidence' ,ie in the trash can.
Blake took care of most your claims for 22 kg of wood per cadaver. For the Heepke experiments, go here:
http://vho.org/tr/2004/1/Mattogno64-72.html
Right so lets say 200,000 arrived in Treblinka in 1943 according to you. You tried to pass these off as Bulgarians in your last post but I had to inform you there were only 11,000 from Bulgaria. So who were the other 190,000 ?
No, I didn't try to "pass these off as Bulgarians". I quoted Wiernik who mentioned that there were transports of Bulgarians during the period of the alleged cremations. He did NOT say the Bulgarians were the only Jews transported to Treblinka during the cremation phase. There were apparently
~136,000 to ~236,000 Jews sent to Treblinka during that time some of which were Bulgarians.
Why are you solely concentrating on the 'near' grate when there are two ? This ditch is full of wood and therefore you wouldn't even see the ditch anyway !!! You can try weasling and being deliberately awkward all you like but it won't help you one bit. In fact it will only make you look more dishonest than you actually are :roll: :roll:

I have clearly highlighted the ridge of the trench, but you can't handle it so you just close your eyes, stamp your feet and scream "not there! it's not there! make it go away now ! " :lol: :lol:

This is getting ridiculous, all you're coming back with is blatant denial of the truth which has been presented to you . Why are you ignoring the arrows I included on the pic to highlight the ridge and the trench ??? Are you blind or just plain dishonest ?
Here is another view of the grates from the Laponder model that clearly show that there aren't any pits beneath the grates.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic ... odel03.jpg

According to Wiernik and Rajchman the graves were 10-12 meters deep, 25-30 meters wide and 50 meters long. At 10 meters deep and 25 meters wide, each meter of grave is going to produce 250 cubic meters of excavated dirt. The soil at Treblinka was sandy so the angle of repose is 45 degrees. Therefore, each meter of grave will produce a stockpile of dirt 15.8 meters or 52 feet high. Wiernik's original model shows a better layout for his five graves. Wiernik shows some graves with stockpiles around two sides of the graves for a total of 75 meters of stockpile. There's 12,500 cubic meters of dirt in a 10X25X50 meter grave. The gain for excavating sand is 12% so there's a total of 14,000 of dirt to be stockpiled. That gives 186 cubic meters of dirt per meter of stockpile or a stockpile 13.7 meters or 45 (44.8) feet.

The M&H model B dragline had a boom of ~35 feet. The model A was smaller. Neither could build a stockpile 45 feet high. As can be seen in the Laponder model, the height of the stockpiles were slightly higher than the cab of the M&H model B. From factory specifications, the model B was 13 feet high. The graves shown by both Laponder and Wiernik are imaginary. Once again, reality rears its ugly head.
How do you know the hermetic cap was on during a gassing ? I asked you this before and you haven't answered, so unless you can dig up something fairly soon, this will go down as another one of your failures.
Wiernik stated that the doors were hermetically sealed and the roof vent had a hermetic cap. Your claim that the hermetic cap wasn't used is bullshit, Lupus. You lose again.

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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Huntinger »

The only way to get reasonable efficiency from outdoor burning is by use of an air curtain. The primary purpose of the air curtain is to create a "secondary burn chamber." The air curtain is like a lid covering the opening in a FireBox. The particles of smoke rising on the hot gasses of the fire are trapped under the air curtain. These smoke particles are then reburned and their size is significantly reduced.
Image
One may notice that the story of the cremations vary considerable from holes in the ground to grills above the ground.
There is no evidence of any replication of the experiments done by Dr. Lothes and Dr. Profé; which is often referenced by Roberto Muehlenkamp. Carcass Burning in Pits According to W. Heepke is described at CODOH. The conclusion is the pits are 2m deep.
For the burning of a large carcass of some 250 – 300 kg in weight, using the procedure described above, over a duration of 5 – 6 hours, the fuel requirements will be approx. 2.5 cubic meters of good firewood and 35 liters of petroleum."
2.5 cubic metres of wood which is 300kg. These figure show that 1kg of wood is needed for 1kg of flesh.

On this basis then 3000 people averaging 68kg each would need about 204 tonne of wood and 23,800 litres of petroleum which would be diesel fuel (I doubt if petrol would be used); this would weigh 19.8 tonne.
Taking Treblinka as an example with 850 000 cremations over a short period. According to Stangl, a train transport of about 3,000 people could be "processed" in three hours. In a 14-hour workday, 12,000 to 15,000 people were killed.

So in one day we would need 1020 tonne of wood and 119 thousand litres of petroleum (103 tonne). There are 159L of fuel in a diesel barrel which means each day 748 barrels of fuel are burned.

No wonder the Germans ran out of fuel on the Eastern front.


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Lupus Rothstein
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Lupus Rothstein »

Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:08 pm
Lupus Cohen wrote:
So, looks like your latest offering just ends up like your previous 'evidence' ,ie in the trash can.
Blake took care of most your claims for 22 kg of wood per cadaver. For the Heepke experiments, go here:
http://vho.org/tr/2004/1/Mattogno64-72.html
No he didn't. And what am I supposed to do with that link ? Waste more time reading it trying to find out what your argument is ? Nah, I have a better idea, you read it and come back with Mattognos arguments. Typical lazy attitude from yours truly.
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:08 pm
Right so lets say 200,000 arrived in Treblinka in 1943 according to you. You tried to pass these off as Bulgarians in your last post but I had to inform you there were only 11,000 from Bulgaria. So who were the other 190,000 ?
No, I didn't try to "pass these off as Bulgarians". I quoted Wiernik who mentioned that there were transports of Bulgarians during the period of the alleged cremations. He did NOT say the Bulgarians were the only Jews transported to Treblinka during the cremation phase. There were apparently
~136,000 to ~236,000 Jews sent to Treblinka during that time some of which were Bulgarians.
Again you ignore my question, who were the other 190,000 deportees from 1943 ? Or show me your sources that prove the 950,000 death toll you're so keen to band about .
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:08 pm
Why are you solely concentrating on the 'near' grate when there are two ? This ditch is full of wood and therefore you wouldn't even see the ditch anyway !!! You can try weasling and being deliberately awkward all you like but it won't help you one bit. In fact it will only make you look more dishonest than you actually are :roll: :roll:

I have clearly highlighted the ridge of the trench, but you can't handle it so you just close your eyes, stamp your feet and scream "not there! it's not there! make it go away now ! " :lol: :lol:

This is getting ridiculous, all you're coming back with is blatant denial of the truth which has been presented to you . Why are you ignoring the arrows I included on the pic to highlight the ridge and the trench ??? Are you blind or just plain dishonest ?
Here is another view of the grates from the Laponder model that clearly show that there aren't any pits beneath the grates.
http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic ... odel03.jpg
And how does the alternative view help you ? I can still see the dark pit under the rails :roll: Wow, how mental is this ? Does this mean that by producing another view of the same pit that the ridge and pit no longer exist in the other photo where I inserted arrows ??? :roll: :roll: :roll:
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:08 pm
According to Wiernik and Rajchman the graves were 10-12 meters deep, 25-30 meters wide and 50 meters long. At 10 meters deep and 25 meters wide, each meter of grave is going to produce 250 cubic meters of excavated dirt. The soil at Treblinka was sandy so the angle of repose is 45 degrees. Therefore, each meter of grave will produce a stockpile of dirt 15.8 meters or 52 feet high. Wiernik's original model shows a better layout for his five graves. Wiernik shows some graves with stockpiles around two sides of the graves for a total of 75 meters of stockpile. There's 12,500 cubic meters of dirt in a 10X25X50 meter grave. The gain for excavating sand is 12% so there's a total of 14,000 of dirt to be stockpiled. That gives 186 cubic meters of dirt per meter of stockpile or a stockpile 13.7 meters or 45 (44.8) feet.

The M&H model B dragline had a boom of ~35 feet. The model A was smaller. Neither could build a stockpile 45 feet high. As can be seen in the Laponder model, the height of the stockpiles were slightly higher than the cab of the M&H model B. From factory specifications, the model B was 13 feet high. The graves shown by both Laponder and Wiernik are imaginary. Once again, reality rears its ugly head.
Do you mind repeating this in plain English please ? I can't even fathom out what your trying to say . Is it just that the model is showing too little stockpile ? Or it was impossible for an excavator to reach high enough to dump the dirt ? Whatever it is, it just appears to resemble another typical Turnagain 'nothing-burger' rant :roll:
Turnagain wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:08 pm
How do you know the hermetic cap was on during a gassing ? I asked you this before and you haven't answered, so unless you can dig up something fairly soon, this will go down as another one of your failures.


Wiernik stated that the doors were hermetically sealed and the roof vent had a hermetic cap. Your claim that the hermetic cap wasn't used is bullshit, Lupus. You lose again.
Prove it .

And while your at it , where are the actual testimonies/statements of your original 11 witnesses who according to you claimed the gas chambers were hermetically sealed ? I asked you for them earlier but you ignored me ( no surprise there !). Also you still havent told me what makes you so sure all these 11 witnesses had fully inspected the chamber and were therefore capable of making an accurate claim over the hermetically sealed nature of the building.

You also appear to be silent on the sheep experiments note connecting the experiment to the AR camps method of cremation. I guess it's just too darn inconvenient for ya , eh ?

Here it is again for you :
Some related information was found in an article concerning a Nazi extermination camp and its trouble destroying the corpses (3). Burning gasoline on piles of corpses on the ground did not consume the corpses. Eventually an "expert" was brought in who arranged the bodies on a rack with the corpses that appeared to contain some fat being placed on the bottom of the pile. A good fire beneath the rack caused fat to drip down and burn. The corpses which were thus over the fire instead of on the ground were reduced to ashes.
And just for good measure , this human fat scenario was also in existence at Auschwitz, in one of the HC articles I linked to in a previous post. Here, the witness Henryk Mandelbaum also mentions how the human fat 'fuelled the fires' : http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... pyres.html
[When] bodies were laid one on top of the other the [body] fat started dripping and fuelled [sic] the flames...

The pyres were doused with petrol?

They were doused with crude oil and with this [other] oil from those bodies, with the fat. The fat dripped down...

[...]

The fat would flow from the stocky one and fuel the flames. It would flow down, you see, and would make the fire burn; it'd make it burn quicker. But with the thin one it was difficult to make it burn, well, because there were mainly bones. There was nothing to fuel the flames... so, well, in order to make the corpses burn faster we'd pour on them the fat from the other bodies in the ditch; the fat that was in the ruts. On the sides there were these ruts and wells for the fat.

[...]

Every so often corpses were thrown, and then wood, fir trees would be thrown, and fat would be poured over this to make the bodies burn better.
and another...Shlomo Venezia :

The ditches sloped down, so that, as they burned, the bodies discharged a flow of human fat down the ditch to a corner where a sort of basin had been formed to collect it. When it looked as if the fire might go out, the men had to take some of that liquid fat from the basin, and throw it onto the fire to revive the flames. I saw this only in ditches of Bunker 2.
And another ...Shlomo Dragon :

To sustain flames of the pyres firewood was doused with a liquid - bad-quality gasoline and also human fat. Human fat came from the trenches where people were incinerated through special little ditches which led to another small pit into which the fat flowed and then was gathered by the SS themselves.
But hey, they're all a bunch of lying kikes ain't they , so we can forget about them :lol:

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Lupus Rothstein
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Re: Witch Trials

Post by Lupus Rothstein »

Huntinger wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:53 pm
The only way to get reasonable efficiency from outdoor burning is by use of an air curtain. The primary purpose of the air curtain is to create a "secondary burn chamber." The air curtain is like a lid covering the opening in a FireBox. The particles of smoke rising on the hot gasses of the fire are trapped under the air curtain. These smoke particles are then reburned and their size is significantly reduced.
Image
One may notice that the story of the cremations vary considerable from holes in the ground to grills above the ground.
There is no evidence of any replication of the experiments done by Dr. Lothes and Dr. Profé; which is often referenced by Roberto Muehlenkamp. Carcass Burning in Pits According to W. Heepke is described at CODOH. The conclusion is the pits are 2m deep.
For the burning of a large carcass of some 250 – 300 kg in weight, using the procedure described above, over a duration of 5 – 6 hours, the fuel requirements will be approx. 2.5 cubic meters of good firewood and 35 liters of petroleum."
2.5 cubic metres of wood which is 300kg. These figure show that 1kg of wood is needed for 1kg of flesh.

On this basis then 3000 people averaging 68kg each would need about 204 tonne of wood and 23,800 litres of petroleum which would be diesel fuel (I doubt if petrol would be used); this would weigh 19.8 tonne.
Taking Treblinka as an example with 850 000 cremations over a short period. According to Stangl, a train transport of about 3,000 people could be "processed" in three hours. In a 14-hour workday, 12,000 to 15,000 people were killed.

So in one day we would need 1020 tonne of wood and 119 thousand litres of petroleum (103 tonne). There are 159L of fuel in a diesel barrel which means each day 748 barrels of fuel are burned.

No wonder the Germans ran out of fuel on the Eastern front.
Average weight of 68kg ???????????????? Where did you pull that one from ? ( I have a good idea :lol: )

They may have run out of liquid fuel a couple of years after the AR/Chelmno cremations, but there was still plenty of wood, and plenty of human fat available in 1942/43, essential to ensure a fuel-efficient cremation method ( aided by the wick effect as implemented by the artist, Herr Floss) could operate successfully.

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