Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

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Huntinger
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:35 pm
No, explain how AR could be an action that only seized property and had no plan for the people?
Kicked out, evicted and put to good use in shale oil, producing carrots and caulis; to leave them with wealth is to invite trouble.


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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:35 pm
Turnagain wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:34 pm
More of Nessie's, "Where did they gooooo?". More of his "gold teeth" and nekkid kikes. So it goes in holyhoax la-la land.
No, explain how AR could be an action that only seized property and had no plan for the people?
According to the USC film archive witnesses there was a plan for transporting deportees to other destinations. According to you and the Soviets there was no such plan.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by PrudentRegret »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:04 pm
Huntinger wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:58 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:32 pm
The claim is that AR was named after Fritz Reinhardt because AR was only a financial part to AR.
This was the main part, to sequester wealth. This fits in with the Reinhardt program, the presence of customs officers and locations of customs offices at the same locations. Customs officers were subordinate to Fritz Reinhardt.
OK, first part of AR, seize homes and businesses and send the Jews to ghettos. That is sequestering wealth which has to be accompanied by resettlement, or else the wealth could not be sequestered. The next part was close down the ghettos and send the Jews to the AR camps to seize the last part of their property. That also involves a form of resettlement as the Jews are moved out of the ghettos to the AR camps. AR records report property seized, down to underwear and gold from teeth. Once that had happened, the people are still left, now with literally nothing. AR has to have included a plan as to what to then do with those people. It is a nonsense to claim AR ended there.
The Main Trustee Office East confiscated the property of deportees in the Transit Camps established by HSSPF in the Incorporated Territories:
In November 1939, while serving in that position, I was called up by a red notice to report to the SS Head Office for Personnel. From there I was seconded to the Higher SS and Police Leader in Posen, effective immediately after my having been called up. The Higher SS and Police Leader at that time was Koppe. Apart from myself, the other office staff were a major in the gendarmerie, Hagelstein, and a captain of police, Watermann. My task was to organize the transport by rail required to carry out the compulsory transfer from the Warthe District of those Poles evicted from their farms by the District Commissioners, because at that time I was mostly only in my office in Posen, where I received the District Commissioners' requirements for rolling stock... my duties also included negotiating with offices in the Generalgouvernement about the destinations of the trains in the Generalgouvernement.

...

There were several field offices subordinate to my office, as well as a transit camp in Litzmannstadt. The purpose of the office was to handle the processing of the Poles on their way to the Generalgouvernement, after they had been evacuated by offices controlled by the Reich Commissioner for the Strengthening of German Folkdom... In the camp, a statement of property was also drawn up for every Polish family to be resettled; these were then collected by the Main Trustee Office East and - so it was said - were to be the basis for compensating those transferred compulsorily.
There are many parallels here with Globocnik's camps. This Lodz camp was:
  • Designated a transit camp for deportations.
  • Operated under HSSPF.
  • Property was confiscated at the camp.
  • Vouchers were created on the pretext that the deportees would be compensated.
  • Vouchers were turned in to the Main Trustee Office East
I have proven that Einsatz Reinhardt conducted this exact function in Globocnik's transit camps.

Nessie, do you admit that the Main Trustee Office East confiscated the property of deportees in the Lodz transit camps? Are you claiming that it was the responsibility of the Main Trustee Office East to actually resettle those people? Or do you admit that their administrative role was limited to the confiscation and administration of the property of deportees?

The only concern of the Main Trustee Office East was confiscating, recording, and storing the property of deportees and then later transferring it to the Reich. This is exactly what the purpose of Einsatz Reinhardt was. So if you accept the role of the Main Trustee Office East in the Lodz transit camps, you cannot continue to argue that it must have been the job of Einsatz Reinhardt to resettle those people. It was not the role of HTO in the Lodz transit camp, and it was not the role of ER in the Lublin transit camps. The role of both was to confiscate, store, and record the property of deportees.

Furthermore, it turns out that the confiscated property of both the Main Trustee Office East AND ER was processed in the exact same way. This is another document that drives home this parallel between Einsatz Reinhardt and the Main Trustee Office East is a memo memorializing a verbal agreement between Puhl and Pohl on March 31st, 1944 (NMT Trials Vol-XIII p. 344):
The Reich Marshal of the Greater German Reich, the Plenipotentiary for the Four Year Plan, informed the German Reich Bank in a letter of 19 March 1944, a copy of which is enclosed, that considerable amounts of gold and silver objects, jewels and so forth at the Main Trustee Office East, should be delivered to the Reich Bank according to the order issued by the Reich Ministers Funk and Graf Schwerin von Krosigk. The utilization of these objects should be accomplished in the same way as the Melmer deliveries. The Reich Marshal informed us also about the utilization of objects of the same kind, which have been acquired in the occupied western territories.
So the infamous 'Aktion Reinhardt' Melmer deliveries were in fact processed in the exact same way as confiscated property from the Main Trustee Office East. The Main Trustee Office East wasn't responsible for resettlement, but it was responsible for managing the confiscated property of resettled persons. Exactly the same as ER in GG.

So Nessie you cannot continue to say that ER had to have a plan for how to resettle those people. That wasn't their job. Their job was to confiscate, transfer, record, and store the property of deportees and other property subject to confiscation. This is what the HTO did in the Incorporated Territories, and this is what ER did in Lublin.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:02 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:35 pm
No, explain how AR could be an action that only seized property and had no plan for the people?
Kicked out, evicted and put to good use in shale oil, producing carrots and caulis; to leave them with wealth is to invite trouble.
They were not left with anything at all. AR records prove everything, down to their underwear, spectacles, walking sticks and the gold from their teeth was stolen. What were they being kicked out with?

Why kick them out, when the EG had been rounding them up and shooting them?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:31 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:04 pm
Huntinger wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:58 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:32 pm
The claim is that AR was named after Fritz Reinhardt because AR was only a financial part to AR.
This was the main part, to sequester wealth. This fits in with the Reinhardt program, the presence of customs officers and locations of customs offices at the same locations. Customs officers were subordinate to Fritz Reinhardt.
OK, first part of AR, seize homes and businesses and send the Jews to ghettos. That is sequestering wealth which has to be accompanied by resettlement, or else the wealth could not be sequestered. The next part was close down the ghettos and send the Jews to the AR camps to seize the last part of their property. That also involves a form of resettlement as the Jews are moved out of the ghettos to the AR camps. AR records report property seized, down to underwear and gold from teeth. Once that had happened, the people are still left, now with literally nothing. AR has to have included a plan as to what to then do with those people. It is a nonsense to claim AR ended there.
The Main Trustee Office East confiscated the property of deportees in the Transit Camps established by HSSPF in the Incorporated Territories:
In November 1939, while serving in that position, I was called up by a red notice to report to the SS Head Office for Personnel. From there I was seconded to the Higher SS and Police Leader in Posen, effective immediately after my having been called up. The Higher SS and Police Leader at that time was Koppe. Apart from myself, the other office staff were a major in the gendarmerie, Hagelstein, and a captain of police, Watermann. My task was to organize the transport by rail required to carry out the compulsory transfer from the Warthe District of those Poles evicted from their farms by the District Commissioners, because at that time I was mostly only in my office in Posen, where I received the District Commissioners' requirements for rolling stock... my duties also included negotiating with offices in the Generalgouvernement about the destinations of the trains in the Generalgouvernement.

...

There were several field offices subordinate to my office, as well as a transit camp in Litzmannstadt. The purpose of the office was to handle the processing of the Poles on their way to the Generalgouvernement, after they had been evacuated by offices controlled by the Reich Commissioner for the Strengthening of German Folkdom... In the camp, a statement of property was also drawn up for every Polish family to be resettled; these were then collected by the Main Trustee Office East and - so it was said - were to be the basis for compensating those transferred compulsorily.
That proves my point, when confiscating property, there has to be a part of the plan as to what to do with the people.
There are many parallels here with Globocnik's camps. This Lodz camp was:
  • Designated a transit camp for deportations.
  • Operated under HSSPF.
  • Property was confiscated at the camp.
  • Vouchers were created on the pretext that the deportees would be compensated.
  • Vouchers were turned in to the Main Trustee Office East
I have proven that Einsatz Reinhardt conducted this exact function in Globocnik's transit camps.
There you go again, you call them "transit camps", you accept that as property is stolen, something also need to be done with the people.
Nessie, do you admit that the Main Trustee Office East confiscated the property of deportees in the Lodz transit camps? Are you claiming that it was the responsibility of the Main Trustee Office East to actually resettle those people? Or do you admit that their administrative role was limited to the confiscation and administration of the property of deportees?
Where were the "Lodz transit camps"? Please name them.

You are accepting that confiscation also requires a plan as to what to do with the people. You are suggesting they were resettled.
The only concern of the Main Trustee Office East was confiscating, recording, and storing the property of deportees and then later transferring it to the Reich. This is exactly what the purpose of Einsatz Reinhardt was. So if you accept the role of the Main Trustee Office East in the Lodz transit camps, you cannot continue to argue that it must have been the job of Einsatz Reinhardt to resettle those people. It was not the role of HTO in the Lodz transit camp, and it was not the role of ER in the Lublin transit camps. The role of both was to confiscate, store, and record the property of deportees.
There will have been people and departments whose job was solely to deal with the property. But that does not mean there was no part of the planning that took into account what to do with the people.
Furthermore, it turns out that the confiscated property of both the Main Trustee Office East AND ER was processed in the exact same way. This is another document that drives home this parallel between Einsatz Reinhardt and the Main Trustee Office East is a memo memorializing a verbal agreement between Puhl and Pohl on March 31st, 1944 (NMT Trials Vol-XIII p. 344):
The Reich Marshal of the Greater German Reich, the Plenipotentiary for the Four Year Plan, informed the German Reich Bank in a letter of 19 March 1944, a copy of which is enclosed, that considerable amounts of gold and silver objects, jewels and so forth at the Main Trustee Office East, should be delivered to the Reich Bank according to the order issued by the Reich Ministers Funk and Graf Schwerin von Krosigk. The utilization of these objects should be accomplished in the same way as the Melmer deliveries. The Reich Marshal informed us also about the utilization of objects of the same kind, which have been acquired in the occupied western territories.
So the infamous 'Aktion Reinhardt' Melmer deliveries were in fact processed in the exact same way as confiscated property from the Main Trustee Office East. The Main Trustee Office East wasn't responsible for resettlement, but it was responsible for managing the confiscated property of resettled persons. Exactly the same as ER in GG.

So Nessie you cannot continue to say that ER had to have a plan for how to resettle those people. That wasn't their job. Their job was to confiscate, transfer, record, and store the property of deportees and other property subject to confiscation. This is what the HTO did in the Incorporated Territories, and this is what ER did in Lublin.
The final part was at the camps at Sobibor, Belzec and TII, when the last of the property was taken from the Jews. You claim the plan stops there, but that makes no sense. You admit above that as property was being seized, the Jews were being moved, first from their homes. You suggest above that there was resettlement, so are you claiming that after the last of their property was taken, the Jews were then transported back out of those camps and resettled somewhere?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Turnagain »

The Jews weren't steamed/gassed/asphyxiated, buried, exhumed with a clamshell equipped dragline and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque so they went elsewhere. How many times do you have to be told that, Nessie? There aren't any giant graves or thousands of tons of cremains or millions of teeth buried at T-II. Why do you insist that rational people believe such impossibilities?

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:20 am
The Jews weren't steamed/gassed/asphyxiated, buried, exhumed with a clamshell equipped dragline and cremated on the magic Jew barbeque so they went elsewhere. How many times do you have to be told that, Nessie? There aren't any giant graves or thousands of tons of cremains or millions of teeth buried at T-II. Why do you insist that rational people believe such impossibilities?
Off topic and answered elsewhere.

How can an action to seize property not also include what to do with the people the property has been seized from?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Turnagain »

Nessie has found a work-around for "Where did they goooooo?".

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Turnagain wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:41 pm
Nessie has found a work-around for "Where did they goooooo?".
No, because stripping people of the last of their property at the AR camps is clearly the step before gassings. PrudentRegret knows that, which is why he avoids going into detail about that last seizure of property in the camps.

AR was not just a massive theft by the Nazis, it was also about the extermination of the Jews. It is not physically possible to have it otherwise.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:59 am
The final part was at the camps at Sobibor, Belzec and TII, when the last of the property was taken from the Jews. You claim the plan stops there, but that makes no sense. You admit above that as property was being seized, the Jews were being moved, first from their homes. You suggest above that there was resettlement, so are you claiming that after the last of their property was taken, the Jews were then transported back out of those camps and resettled somewhere?
The poster Nessie is clearly not reading or comprehending the writings of Prudent Regret, who had clearly shown that the workings in Transit camps are applied to the border camps aka AR camps. Prudent Regret said:
PrudentRegret wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:31 pm
So the infamous 'Aktion Reinhardt' Melmer deliveries were in fact processed in the exact same way as confiscated property from the Main Trustee Office East. The Main Trustee Office East wasn't responsible for resettlement, but it was responsible for managing the confiscated property of resettled persons. Exactly the same as ER in GG.

There is a constant attempt by the poster Nessie to thwart the discussion from the naming of the border institutions to the dissolution of Polish judentum, as though the two are somehow integrated. Prudent Regret clearly states a division of labour and purpose.
Prudent Regret did not state that the plan "stops there", he said:
PrudentRegret wrote:
Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:31 pm
So Nessie you cannot continue to say that ER had to have a plan for how to resettle those people. That wasn't their job. Their job was to confiscate, transfer, record, and store the property of deportees and other property subject to confiscation. This is what the HTO did in the Incorporated Territories, and this is what ER did in Lublin.
This thread is about the naming of the various border camps, all which correlate with customs (Zollgrenzschutz) offices at the same border crossings. The head of the customs border control (Zollgrenzschutz) was Fritz Reinhardt who implemented various economic initiatives. It is clear that the naming of the camps is to do with function, sequestering of wealth.

Whether or not the SS, Ukrainian guards or Martians shot these people afterwards is another issue, but they would have crossed the border first.


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