Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

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Huntinger
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:01 pm
"State secret! To the commander of the Security Police, for the attention of SS Obersturmbannfuhrer HEIM, KRAKAU. Re: 14-day report operation REINHARD. Reference: radio telegram from there
Recorded arrivals until December 42, L 12761, B 0, S 515, T 10335, totalling 23611. Situation 31 December 42, L 24733, B 434508, S 101370, T 71355, totalling 1274166. SS and police leader of Lublin, HOFLE, Sturmbannfuhrer"

Those camps are part of AR and up to the end of Dec 1942, they received 1.274 million people. From witnesses and transport records as ghettos were being cleared, the camps which huge numbers of people were being sent to were Belzec, Sobibor and TII.
Lets look at the original.

Image
It clearly says:
14- tägige Meldung Einsatz Reinhart translated that becomes 14-day report deployment. It depends on the context but could also mean entry, exercise, enemy flight, detour, mission, assignment, operation, action.
The danger is taking a word out of context like is done here with assumptions as to its meaning.
Einsatz means "commitment'
It is quite reasonable, from their role in AR, to call those camps AR camps.
No it is not as only assumptions are made without the full knowledge of the context of the report known. This merely says the deployment statistics for a period of 14 days. Then there is a "summing up" wrongly translated as totalling, though it is close enough not to go into a debate over it.

From this mistranslation of Einsatz it would seem a whole camp structure materialized as well as an operation of mass murder under the misnomer Aktion Reinhart.

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Nessie
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:07 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:04 pm
I did answer, A-B was not one of the death camps specifically set up for AR...
So which documents establish that Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor were "specifically set up for AR"?
Having checked dates for chronology, it appears AR as a term was first used (July 1942) after the first of the camps at Belzec was being constructed (Nov 1941). Semantically, the camps were not set up for AR, the Nazis applied the operational name retrospectively.

http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/arccomment.html
For you to say "specifically set up for AR" you need to provide evidence that specifies this policy, Aktion Reinhardt, is the reason those camps were established. There is no evidence that these camps were "specifically set up for AR". That is a historical supposition that has been woven into terminology in referencing these camps but there's no support for it.
To better answer that question, I need you to answer some questions.

Do you accept that resettlement was a part of AR?
Do you accept that resettlement was as important a part of AR as the theft of property?
Do you accept that the theft of property in AR included gold from teeth and underwear, which then raises questions about what kind of resettlement did the Nazis have in mind?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by PrudentRegret »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:28 pm
Do you accept that resettlement was a part of AR?
Do you accept that resettlement was as important a part of AR as the theft of property?
Do you accept that the theft of property in AR included gold from teeth and underwear, which then raises questions about what kind of resettlement did the Nazis have in mind?
No, and these are not described as being part of AR in Globocnik's comprehensive report on the administration of AR. They are also not included in the definition of AR given by Hoess, who was in charge of AR in Auschwitz. Neither are they given by the WVHA in trial. Even the prosecutors in the trial accepted that AR was not the codename for the deportation (or "extermination") itself. It seems the only people who think that AR bureaucratically referred to extermination are historians that want to ignore all the documents and testimony.

It is specified in multiple documents and in the trial that an unknown portion (likely, the majority) of the sequestered property in AR was gathered from ghettos, including large warehouses that were part of the black market. It would be impossible for Jews to take their entire wardrobe with them on resettlement. It cannot be assumed that all (or even the majority) of clothing acquired through AR was confiscated at those camps. It seems likely the vast majority was left behind in the ghettos by the Jews upon deportation and processed according to the regulations of Aktion Reinhardt.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:16 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:01 pm
"State secret! To the commander of the Security Police, for the attention of SS Obersturmbannfuhrer HEIM, KRAKAU. Re: 14-day report operation REINHARD. Reference: radio telegram from there
Recorded arrivals until December 42, L 12761, B 0, S 515, T 10335, totalling 23611. Situation 31 December 42, L 24733, B 434508, S 101370, T 71355, totalling 1274166. SS and police leader of Lublin, HOFLE, Sturmbannfuhrer"

Those camps are part of AR and up to the end of Dec 1942, they received 1.274 million people. From witnesses and transport records as ghettos were being cleared, the camps which huge numbers of people were being sent to were Belzec, Sobibor and TII.
Lets look at the original.

Image
It clearly says:
14- tägige Meldung Einsatz Reinhart translated that becomes 14-day report deployment. It depends on the context but could also mean entry, exercise, enemy flight, detour, mission, assignment, operation, action.
The danger is taking a word out of context like is done here with assumptions as to its meaning.
Einsatz means "commitment'
It is quite reasonable, from their role in AR, to call those camps AR camps.
No it is not as only assumptions are made without the full knowledge of the context of the report known. This merely says the deployment statistics for a period of 14 days. Then there is a "summing up" wrongly translated as totalling, though it is close enough not to go into a debate over it.

From this mistranslation of Einsatz it would seem a whole camp structure materialized as well as an operation of mass murder under the misnomer Aktion Reinhart.
The other document that links Hofle to AR (and is the earliest document to mention AR) and which proves there were specific camps as part of AR and their role involved the evacuation of Jews is;

https://www.yadvashem.org/docs/secrecy- ... ation.html

"Signed Obligation by SS Men Taking Part In an Extermination Operation To Observe Secrecy July 18, 1942
uly 18, 1942
concerning the obligation of [name of person]......... as a person with special duties in the execution of tasks in the evacuation of Jews within the framework of "Einsatz Reinhard," [Operation Reinhard] under the SS Police Leader (SS- und Polizeifuehrer) in the District of Lublin.
……….[Name] declares:
I have been thoroughly informed and instructed by SS Hauptstuermfuhrer Hoefle, as Commander of the main division of "Einsatz Reinhard" of the SS and Police Leader in the District of Lublin:
1. that I may not under any circumstances pass on any form of information, verbally or in writing, on the progress, procedure or incidents in the evacuation of Jews to any person outside the circle of the "Einsatz Reinhard" staff;
2. that the process of the evacuation of Jews is a subject that comes under "Secret Reich Document," in accordance with censorship regulation Verschl. V. a;
3. concerning the special regulations made by the SS and Police Leader in the District of Lublin in this case, with explicit reference to the fact that these regulations are "Orders concerning Duties," and/or "Orders and Prohibitions" in accordance with Para. 92b of R.St.G.B.;
4. that there is an absolute prohibition on photography in the camps of "Einsatz Reinhard";
5. concerning Para. 88 through 93 of R.St.G.B., of the formulation of April 24, 1934, and the Regulation on Bribery and Revealing of Secrets on the part of Persons who are not in Official Employ, of May 3, 1917, and February 12, 1920;
6. concerning the paragraphs of R.St.G.B. 139 (Duty to Lay Information) and 353c (Breach of the Official Secrets Act).
I am familiar with the above Regulations and Laws and am aware of the responsibilities imposed upon me by the task with which I have been entrusted. I promise to observe them to the best of my knowledge and conscience. I am aware that the obligation to maintain secrecy continues even after I have left the Service."
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by PrudentRegret »

Nobody denies the camps were "part" of AR. The property of the Jews upon reaching these camps would be processed according to the regulations of Aktion Reinhardt. AR clearly extended to Globocnik's camps. That does not mean the sole purpose of these camps was to implement AR, or that they were "Reinhardt camps" (much less "Reinhard camps"), it just means that they were under the regulations of AR in how they handled sequestered Jewish property.

They sent this property to the office of Einsatz Reinhardt in Lublin. From there, Jewelry and precious metals were sent to the WVHA headquarters in Berlin. The clothes and shoes were very likely disinfected and repaired in Majdanek itself. Most cash amounts in RM went to WVHA Account 1488, and some was deposited into the "Reinhardt Account / Reinhardt 1" in Lublin to cover expenditures (this is a source of controversy for Globocnik). This is also the account that pertains to Globocnik's report on the "economic settlement" of Aktion Reinhardt. He is referencing the balancing of this account to cover his own ass from accusations of embezzlement when Pohl was to take it over.

Clothing and property left behind in the ghettos would also be processed in this way.

Note that this explains the huge volumes of clothing and such found in Majdanek. It was a repository for these items in the execution of Aktion Reinhardt.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:37 pm
……….[Name] declares:
I have been thoroughly informed and instructed by SS Hauptstuermfuhrer Hoefle, as Commander of the main division of "Einsatz Reinhard" of the SS and Police Leader in the District of Lublin:
1. that I may not under any circumstances pass on any form of information, verbally or in writing, on the progress, procedure or incidents in the evacuation of Jews to any person outside the circle of the "Einsatz Reinhard" staff;
2. that the process of the evacuation of Jews is a subject that comes under "Secret Reich Document," in accordance with censorship regulation Verschl. V. a;
3. concerning the special regulations made by the SS and Police Leader in the District of Lublin in this case, with explicit reference to the fact that these regulations are "Orders concerning Duties," and/or "Orders and Prohibitions" in accordance with Para. 92b of R.St.G.B.;
4. that there is an absolute prohibition on photography in the camps of "Einsatz Reinhard";
5. concerning Para. 88 through 93 of R.St.G.B., of the formulation of April 24, 1934, and the Regulation on Bribery and Revealing of Secrets on the part of Persons who are not in Official Employ, of May 3, 1917, and February 12, 1920;
6. concerning the paragraphs of R.St.G.B. 139 (Duty to Lay Information) and 353c (Breach of the Official Secrets Act).
I am familiar with the above Regulations and Laws and am aware of the responsibilities imposed upon me by the task with which I have been entrusted. I promise to observe them to the best of my knowledge and conscience. I am aware that the obligation to maintain secrecy continues even after I have left the Service."
This is all fake, simple jootrix it would seem by Yad Vashem; they also have a copyright on it
(Copyright © 2016 Yad Vashem. The World Holocaust Remembrance Center)
However, if one can find the original German document it would be appreciated, until then it is as fake as a 3 dollars bill.
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by PrudentRegret »

This is a real document, except in this translation it has been fabricated by Yad Vashem to Replace the real "Reinhardt" spelling that is present in the original with "Reinhard" in every single instance. "Aktion Reinhardt" is not mentioned at all. This establishes what I have been saying all along:

Aktion Reinhardt was the framework of legal regulations and Einsatz Reinhardt was the name of an office in Globocnik's district of Lublin. These terms are not synonymous, and Aktion Reinhardt is not mentioned in Nessie's document a single time.

Einsatz Reinhardt is always a reference to that specific office in usage. It is not synonymous with "Aktion Reinhardt." They are different things.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:00 pm
This is a real document, except it has been fabricated by Yad Vashem to Replace the real "Reinhardt" spelling that is present in the original with "Reinhard" in every single instance. "Aktion Reinhardt" is not mentioned at all. This establishes what I have been saying all along:
Thank you, which is why I still call it a fake. If one could get the original this would be a good resource to expose Yad Vashem and their iniquitous ways.
The document flipper posted said:
4. that there is an absolute prohibition on photography in the camps of "Einsatz Reinhard";
Well that would put Sobibor out of the AR club considering the number of photos that now exist taken by Johann Niemann.
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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Nessie »

PrudentRegret wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:35 pm
Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:28 pm
Do you accept that resettlement was a part of AR?
Do you accept that resettlement was as important a part of AR as the theft of property?
Do you accept that the theft of property in AR included gold from teeth and underwear, which then raises questions about what kind of resettlement did the Nazis have in mind?
No, and these are not described as being part of AR in Globocnik's comprehensive report on the administration of AR. They are also not included in the definition of AR given by Hoess, who was in charge of AR in Auschwitz.
Is your claim that resettlement had no part to play in AR, which was exclusively about the theft of property? You claim that despite documents specifically referring to resettlement, which you think it is OK to just ignore.
Neither are they given by the WVHA in trial. Even the prosecutors in the trial accepted that AR was not the codename for the deportation (or "extermination") itself. It seems the only people who think that AR bureaucratically referred to extermination are historians that want to ignore all the documents and testimony.
My understanding is that historians regard AR as part of the overall Final Solution and part of AR was extermination under the guise of resettlement, the use of Jews as labourers and the theft of Jewish property
It is specified in multiple documents and in the trial that an unknown portion (likely, the majority) of the sequestered property in AR was gathered from ghettos, including large warehouses that were part of the black market. It would be impossible for Jews to take their entire wardrobe with them on resettlement. It cannot be assumed that all (or even the majority) of clothing acquired through AR was confiscated at those camps. It seems likely the vast majority was left behind in the ghettos by the Jews upon deportation and processed according to the regulations of Aktion Reinhardt.
Again, my understanding is that the largest part of theft was when Jews were forced to leave their homes and most of their possessions behind, when they were sent to the ghettos. They then had to leave other property behind in the ghettos and the last of their property was taken from them at the AR camps. Multiple witnesses speak of trains loaded with property leaving the AR camps.

That in itself proves AR was as much about supposed resettlement as it was theft. The theft was achieved by supposedly resettling the Jews and forcing them to leave their property behind. One point you have dodged is that they left behind the gold from their teeth and their underwear, which does not leave the people much to be resettled with.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: Aktion Reinhardt was named after Fritz Reinhardt- not Reinhard Heydrich

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:34 pm
Is your claim that resettlement had no part to play in AR, which was exclusively about the theft of property? You claim that despite documents specifically referring to resettlement, which you think it is OK to just ignore.
If the customs were involved then deportation is the name of the game aka departure tax. The departure tax in the Reich was severe, 90% of total wealth from recall; this was to pay for the movement and accommodation of juden who could not work; all this was in documents presented a few days ago. Please read them.
During the Third Reich, the use of the Reich Flight Tax (Gesetz über Änderung der Vorschriften über die Reichsfluchtsteuer) shifted away from dissuading wealthy citizens from moving overseas and was instead used as a form of "legalized theft" to confiscate Jüdisch assets. The departure of der judentum was desired and permitted by the Nationalsozialist government – especially after the Invasion of Poland – until a decree from Heinrich Himmler forbade Jüdische emigration on 23 October 1941. Much of the immigration was not voluntary but coerced, in effect an eviction. Korherr calls it evacuation.
In total, the Reich government collected 941 million ℛℳ in taxes through the Reich Flight Tax. An estimated 90% of these funds came from emigrants and those evicted.... Juden.

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