Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

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DERJUDE
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Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by DERJUDE »

Greetings,

I would like to share with you my background and upbringing. I am a Jew, of German Jewish and Polish Jewish descent. Unfortunately, during the Holocaust I lost family members on both sides of my family - my maternal grandmother was killed at Auschwitz and my paternal grandparents were killed at Treblinka. Again, on both sides of my family there were lots of terrible things that happened to them including my Polish Jewish family members losing their homes and sent to work as slave labourers during WW2. For many still alive today, the scars are still there because of the sheer amount of pain and suffering the Nazis caused to so many Jews and others. As I am sure you are all well aware, the Nazis described many other peoples as racially inferior, especially Gypsies, blacks and Slavs. I have been to many conferences listening to the experiences of ethnic Russians, Poles, Germans, etc.

In German-occupied Poland it was an awful time and not just for Polish Jews, but also Polish Christians. I have been told and I have read about the terrible experiences which Polish Christians had to go through because they attempted to stop the brutality against many of their friends and in some cases lovers who just so happened to be Jews. I remember reading about the time when ethnic German women protested against the Nazis because of their policies - Rosenstrasse protest.

At the end of WW2, pretty much all of Europe was an absolute mess, but some countries were totally destroyed e.g. Poland. If Hitler hadn’t of been such an advocate of German expansion in the East he would have found some good friends amongst the Poles during the interwar years because many of them hated communism and a lot were also antisemitic. The idea of ‘Jewish Communism’ was advocated by many ethnic Poles.

I have been to Poland many times and things have really changed. I’m glad that the Poles managed to get rid of the communist dictatorship in the late 1980s. I consider communism and Nazism to be two sides of the same coin.

I joined this forum to understand a few things:

A) Which parts of the Holocaust do you have any doubts about precisely? What makes me so bewildered is why anyone would cast doubt on a fact of history which has been studied left, right and centre. Historians have spent decades studying the holocaust and every year more evidence of the crimes committed by the Nazis appears.

B) Which motives drive Holocaust revisionism as it is called? I know that many people say it’s just Holocaust denial, but I don’t want to personally attack anyone and I expect the same amount of respect back from people who bother to respond to me.

C) What do you hope to gain from engaging in Holocaust revisionism?

I have done a fair bit of research about Holocaust revisionism and if I’m being honest, I really don’t understand the appeal.

There are still many people alive today who unfortunately lost their relatives due to the policies carried out by the Nazis. Please have some respect for those people.

If you have a desire to see Nazism implementer again then you need to stop flogging a dead horse. Neo-Nazism appears to very few people and has absolutely no chance of ever coming to power in any country in the world. Most people don’t believe in genocide, racism (to an extent white supremacy), treating other humans as subhumans, and the list goes on and on, but I’m sure you get my point.

Thank you for taking your time to read my post.
No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.” - Nelson Mandela


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Huntinger
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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by Huntinger »

DERJUDE wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:38 pm
Greetings,
Willkommen Jude. The lounge is where people normally introduce themselves, but it is understood you wish to also discuss issues.
I would like to share with you my background and upbringing. I am a Jew, of German Jewish and Polish Jewish descent. Unfortunately, during the Holocaust I lost family members on both sides of my family - my maternal grandmother was killed at Auschwitz and my paternal grandparents were killed at Treblinka. Again, on both sides of my family there were lots of terrible things that happened to them including my Polish Jewish family members losing their homes and sent to work as slave labourers during WW2. For many still alive today, the scars are still there because of the sheer amount of pain and suffering the Nazis caused to so many Jews and others. As I am sure you are all well aware, the Nazis described many other peoples as racially inferior, especially Gypsies, blacks and Slavs. I have been to many conferences listening to the experiences of ethnic Russians, Poles, Germans, etc.

You have assumed that the alleged holocaust was real as what you are in fact is repeating the cliches of this trope. I respect that people were lost due to war related conditions caused by allied interdiction which resulted in disease, starvation, no water. All of these are a break down of society out of the German control. Is there evidence that your family members were "killed" at these places or did they perhaps just become "missing" people, integrated into the Soviet Union after the annexing? You are assuming they were murdered because of that is the propaganda that was put out by the Soviets.

At the start of the internment process, Juden were payed for their work, this is attested by the Hungarian jüdisch boy, where he and his family not only paid for their transportation out of Hungary but were paid for their Labours by the Reich. He enjoyed his work and in no way were they slave labourers; that is a propaganda myth. As the Soviets advanced belts became tighter as finances were put into the war effort.

As a source of national pride Jude were considered Untermensch, which was more to do with bad attitudes than racial inferiority.
Juden are not a race although their Khazar origins have been firmly established lately, especially amongst Ashkenazi juden.
In German-occupied Poland it was an awful time and not just for Polish Jews, but also Polish Christians. I have been told and I have read about the terrible experiences which Polish Christians had to go through because they attempted to stop the brutality against many of their friends and in some cases lovers who just so happened to be Jews. I remember reading about the time when ethnic German women protested against the Nazis because of their policies - Rosenstrasse protest.
It was a horrible time, especially when the Soviets occupied half of the place. If you were to ask the Poles then who were considered worse, the Soviets or the Nazis, the answer would be "when". Sadly Polen was situated in a middle of a stick of dynamite. Many Juden denounced their polnische neighbours to the NKVD for one reason or another. Many Juden were Bolsheviks supporting Comrade Stalin. After the advance of the Germans the Poles reacted against Juden in retaliation resulting in the Pogroms. The same happened in the Baltic states, prompting Polizei units to take revenge on Juden which they did in Belarus.
Most of der Juden there were Partizani terrorists.
At the end of WW2, pretty much all of Europe was an absolute mess, but some countries were totally destroyed e.g. Poland. If Hitler hadn’t of been such an advocate of German expansion in the East he would have found some good friends among the Poles during the interwar years because many of them hated communism and a lot were also antisemitic. The idea of ‘Jewish Communism’ was advocated by many ethnic Poles.
Herr Hitler was not after expansion but to recover land lost in the treaty of Versailles. Bolshevism was seem as a huge threat to Europe which it was. While the Poles hated communism der Juden did not but embraced it, which as mentioned put them on a collision course. The brutality of the NKVD on the Polish population after the denunciations was far in excess of the Germans. When the Soviets retreated after Barbarossa, they took millions of Poles (including Juden) with them. In three transports they sent millions to the Russian Interior. On one transport 600 000 perished with millions more dying in the Siberian gulags as slave labourers. It is estimated 1.2 million Juden perished in these transports and gulags.
I have been to Poland many times and things have really changed. I’m glad that the Poles managed to get rid of the communist dictatorship in the late 1980s. I consider communism and Nazism to be two sides of the same coin.
That is only because that is how it is portrayed by the victorious Bolsheviks, though Nationalsozialismus is inspired in many aspects by the works of Karl Marx. Communism is OK in its ideal but Bolshevik manifestation resulted in the murder of 66 million of Soviet people up until the death of Stalin. The leaders of the Bolsheviks in Russian, Lenin, Trostsky, Zinoviev, Dzerzhinsky, Kerensky were all Juden. In fact 85% of the Bolshevik leaders can be considered Jude. Even Vladmir Putin the President of the Russian Federation agrees with that fact and stated it publicly on television
I joined this forum to understand a few things:
In the interim I will assume you are posting in good faith.
A) Which parts of the Holocaust do you have any doubts about precisely? What makes me so bewildered is why anyone would cast doubt on a fact of history which has been studied left, right and centre. Historians have spent decades studying the holocaust and every year more evidence of the crimes committed by the Nazis appears.
It is not a fact and certainly not bolstered by any convincing evidence despite repeated requests. The only Historians are themselves jüdisch, all quoting each other in references. The crimes of the National Socialists for the most part have been
mentioned by the Soviets to alleviate their own shocking track record. The attempted framing for Katyn is a prime example, as well as the shrunken heads, soap, lampshades nonsense. The death of 6 million was floating around long before the end of WWII.
There were no mass executions, gaskammers, though Partizani terrorists were shot by the Einsatzgruppen. These Juden took the lives of just under a million German Soldiers.

B) Which motives drive Holocaust revisionism as it is called? I know that many people say it’s just Holocaust denial, but I don’t want to personally attack anyone and I expect the same amount of respect back from people who bother to respond to me.
Truth. You will be treated with respect if you discuss in good faith without emotional ad hominems.
C) What do you hope to gain from engaging in Holocaust revisionism?

Truth to be realized.

I have done a fair bit of research about Holocaust revisionism and if I’m being honest, I really don’t understand the appeal.
No one mentioned about appeal only you.
There are still many people alive today who unfortunately lost their relatives due to the policies carried out by the Nazis. Please have some respect for those people.
Millions upon million more lost their lives due to the Policies of the Bolshevik Juden aka Soviets. Some 4 million Germans were murdered by these people. Please have some respect for those people.
If you have a desire to see Nazism implementer again then you need to stop flogging a dead horse. Neo-Nazism appears to very few people and has absolutely no chance of ever coming to power in any country in the world. Most people don’t believe in genocide, racism (to an extent white supremacy), treating other humans as subhumans, and the list goes on and on, but I’m sure you get my point.
Neo Nazism is not National Socialism. National Socialism is the exact opposite to what you think it is.
The point you must consider Jude. What would dignify the struggles of your family, those who were lost.
  • They perished along with 80 million other people, or suffered the horrors that only war can bring; they are a part of the collective loss to humanity.
  • Their deaths are part of a propaganda machine to support the notions of a few. Using their deaths for political gain not for the real struggles.
If the Holocuast Remembrance day also remembered the suffering and loss of 80 million people and the total devastation of the war
it might be a day to remember, but the remembrance of 6 million fictional characters does not dignify humanity but cheapens it.


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Alle Trolljuden werden ignoriert

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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by Jeffk1970 »

OK, this should be interesting. This is my comment so I can follow along. Don’t mind me.

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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by Huntinger »

Jeffk1970 wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:15 pm
OK, this should be interesting. This is my comment so I can follow along. Don’t mind me.
To be Frank JeffK no one minds you, being as irrelevant as you are. It is noticed that you tend to follow der 👺, which makes me suspect that DerJude is just another "doppelganger"; the name alone suggests this, being similar to Aryan Jew, Marxist Jew, Marxist Corey. The post above suggest that this is just a fake; for instance the statement:
For many still alive today, the scars are still there because of the sheer amount of pain and suffering the Nazis caused to so many Jews and others.
reeks of emotional claptrap. The shear amount of hoaxery dreamed up by people like yourselves does great injustice to the real horrors experience by real people of the time. One uses reality to dignify people not fraud.
The War finished 75 years ago, so very few would be alive today to remember anything. Psychologists have put the age of 7 as the age in which adults remember their childhood, beyond that point is amnesia, though it does vary. This being the case then only those people 82 years or older would remember anything. As Poland was invaded by the Germans in 1939 the selective memory of Reich atrocities recedes even further so this would mean only those 88 years or older can remember anything of that period.
Considering there is claimed a jüdisch holocaust as well as polish one (into the soviet union) there would be very few alive. According to the Polish Central Statistical Office data, 557 545 people of that age group are alive. According to the Polish Central Statistical Office data, at the end of 2016 in Poland there were 223,000 people within this age group. This is up about 334 500 from the 2016 data which means there has been a flow of immigrants into Poland. More than 680,000 foreigners received legal residency in Poland in 2017 alone, according to Eurostat.


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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by been-there »

DERJUDE wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:38 pm
Greetings,

I would like to share with you my background and upbringing. I am a Jew, of German Jewish and Polish Jewish descent. Unfortunately, during the Holocaust I lost family members on both sides of my family - my maternal grandmother was killed at Auschwitz and my paternal grandparents were killed at Treblinka. Again, on both sides of my family there were lots of terrible things that happened to them including my Polish Jewish family members losing their homes and sent to work as slave labourers during WW2. For many still alive today, the scars are still there because of the sheer amount of pain and suffering the Nazis caused to so many Jews and others. As I am sure you are all well aware, the Nazis described many other peoples as racially inferior, especially Gypsies, blacks and Slavs. I have been to many conferences listening to the experiences of ethnic Russians, Poles, Germans, etc.

In German-occupied Poland it was an awful time and not just for Polish Jews, but also Polish Christians. I have been told and I have read about the terrible experiences which Polish Christians had to go through because they attempted to stop the brutality against many of their friends and in some cases lovers who just so happened to be Jews. I remember reading about the time when ethnic German women protested against the Nazis because of their policies - Rosenstrasse protest.

At the end of WW2, pretty much all of Europe was an absolute mess, but some countries were totally destroyed e.g. Poland. If Hitler hadn’t of been such an advocate of German expansion in the East he would have found some good friends amongst the Poles during the interwar years because many of them hated communism and a lot were also antisemitic. The idea of ‘Jewish Communism’ was advocated by many ethnic Poles.

I have been to Poland many times and things have really changed. I’m glad that the Poles managed to get rid of the communist dictatorship in the late 1980s. I consider communism and Nazism to be two sides of the same coin.

I joined this forum to understand a few things:

A) Which parts of the Holocaust do you have any doubts about precisely? What makes me so bewildered is why anyone would cast doubt on a fact of history which has been studied left, right and centre. Historians have spent decades studying the holocaust and every year more evidence of the crimes committed by the Nazis appears.

B) Which motives drive Holocaust revisionism as it is called? I know that many people say it’s just Holocaust denial, but I don’t want to personally attack anyone and I expect the same amount of respect back from people who bother to respond to me.

C) What do you hope to gain from engaging in Holocaust revisionism?

I have done a fair bit of research about Holocaust revisionism and if I’m being honest, I really don’t understand the appeal.

There are still many people alive today who unfortunately lost their relatives due to the policies carried out by the Nazis. Please have some respect for those people.

If you have a desire to see Nazism implementer again then you need to stop flogging a dead horse. Neo-Nazism appears to very few people and has absolutely no chance of ever coming to power in any country in the world. Most people don’t believe in genocide, racism (to an extent white supremacy), treating other humans as subhumans, and the list goes on and on, but I’m sure you get my point.

Thank you for taking your time to read my post.
Hi and welcome.

Q1a) Which parts of the Holocaust do you have any doubts about precisely?
A1a). I have doubts about the mass-gassing narrative which is the core and central theme.
Without this 'mass-gassing in extermination camps' allegation, the narrative is no longer one of attempted genocide and annhilation as is claimed (and is made a compulsory belief).

Q1b) What makes me so bewildered is why anyone would cast doubt on a fact of history which has been studied left, right and centre.
A1b. It has not been studied critically by court historians. Any academic who has done that has been ostracised, persecuted, violently attacked, received death threats, been fined and imprisoned and been vilified, etc.
Professor Robert Faurisson, Arthur Butz, Henri Roques, Professor Joel Hayward, Samuel Crowell (protective pseudonym), Nick Kollerstrom, Professor Philip Dalton (protective pseudonym) and most recently Professor Anthony Hall are a few examples of that, off the top of my head

Q1c) Historians have spent decades studying the holocaust and every year more evidence of the crimes committed by the [accused] appears.
A1c. See answer 1b.Plus every year more evidence is revealed demonstrating the allegation is a heavily exaggerated atrocity propaganda that relies on a central theme which has no credible documentary or empirical evidence supporting it. On the contrary, the mounting empirical evidence clearly refutes the mass-gassng narrative, and greatly minimises the 'einsatzgruppen' allegations, e.g. Babi Yarr.

.. .. .. .. ..

Q2) Which motives drive Holocaust revisionism as it is called?
A3) Primarily the motivation is the desire for a fair and accurate history.
Second is the wish to see an end to a destructive and hate perpetuating narrative that is believed to be inaccurate and deceptive but which traumatises new generations of Jews, makes then untrusting, paranoid and vengeful and is used to justify a racist slow-genocide in Palestine against people because they are non-Jews.

.. .. .. .. ..

Q3) What do you hope to gain from engaging in Holocaust revisionism?
See A3.

.. .. .. .. ..

Have you come across and read this?
: How could 'THE Holocaust' not be true?

It was written by an English Jew who loves his family, his Jewish heritage and his extended Jewish community.
I recommend it, as maybe a helpful place for you to start your investigation.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by been-there »

P.s.

Q: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?
A: In principal the answer is 'of course not'.
In practice the answer to that would depend on how any revision was being conducted.

All historical narratives must be allowed to undergo constant revision.
If a narrative needs to be protected from that and revision of it is forbidden, then know it is actually not a historiography at all but a compulsory belief-system. It is an ahistoric creed. A compulsory mind-manipulation of the masses.

And if any country outlaws revision of any particular historical narrative, know that what is being protected is not historical truth. Know and understand that what is being permitted is state-sponsored mind-control. Thought-policing.
"When people who are honestly mistaken learn the truth,
they either cease being mistaken
or they cease being honest"
-- Anonymous

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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by Werd »

DERJUDE wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:38 pm
Thank you for taking your time to read my post.
Holocaust revisionism is a curiosity for me as I am a conspiracy theorist. I don't put "the Jews" or "Jews" or "Rothschilds" or "Zionists" atop the conspiracy pyramid. I've explained this to other Jewish posters or gentile Philo-semites here who didn't stick around for very long.
viewtopic.php?p=153770#p153770
viewtopic.php?p=156470#p156470
viewtopic.php?p=156480#p156480
Happy reading.
Last edited by Werd on Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by Werd »

DERJUDE wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 1:38 pm
Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?
Not inherently.

CODOH: The Jewish Revisionist thread.
It's 5 pages but here is my favourite post within it on page 3.
https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=66395#p66395

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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by Jeffk1970 »

So, DERJUDE, learn anything of interest?

I’ve poked my head in a few times today to see what answers you would get.

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Re: Is Holocaust revisionism antisemitic?

Post by DERJUDE »

Huntinger, I want to take my time to respond to a few incorrect points you have made about various things.

Yes, there is evidence my family members were killed at the camps I mentioned. My family members were sent to the camps and were never seen again. The mass murder which happened at the different camps ran by the Nazis has been known for a long time.

Hold on a minute, are you trying to suggest that no Jews were killed by the Nazis but were instead put under Soviet territory and that it is just propaganda that they were killed? I hope not.

When the Nazis used Jews as slave labourers, they were often humiliated. Jewish children at the age of 14 were subjected to forced labour.

National pride is about being of your country, it is not the same as describing a whole group of people as subhumans. Many German Jews were very patriotic after WW1, so much so that the Nuremberg Laws allowed those people to remain Reich citizens.

I think you should study what the Nazis actually described the Jews as because they regularly stated that there was a ‘Jewish race’. Of course the racism was pseudo-scientific, but that didn’t stop the Nazis from stating such things in propaganda, speeches, documents, etc.

You are wrong about the origins of Jews. Ashkenazi Jews are predominantly of European origin.

And, who ran the other half of Poland? The Nazis. The Nazis and the Soviets had a secret protocol in their pact which divided Poland.

Most Jews were not partisans. Do you have any sources to back up that claim? Most of the Jews were innocent people, including children and older people who were simply scapegoats.

You are wrong. Hitler had already annexed non-German territory in March 1939. One of the main reasons Hitler strived for war in the East was because of his belief in Lebensraum (living space). Alfred Rosenberg deeply influenced him on that matter. I think you should study Hitler’s book Mein Kampf, his speeches during the late 1930s and what the Nazis stated in propaganda during the war.

You seem to be equating communism with Jews. I have news for you, more non-Jews supported communism and most Jews did not support communism.

The Nazis only lasted 12 years in government and during that time they showed the world how an authoritarian, dictatorship, fascist, racist, genocidal, etc, regime ends up which is why it will (hopefully) never be repeated again. It’s also worth reminding people that Hitler never came to power because the majority of Germans voted for him and in the last free election he actually lost votes to the communists!

The Soviets certainly killed millions of people, but can you cite sources which state the figure 66 million?

Most of the Bolsheviks were not Jews, but Jews were overrepresented. So because Putin says something then it must be true, right? I don’t think so.

You’re quiet happy to accept that the Soviets murdered millions of people (they did, but not 66 million which you claimed), but you are denying the fact that the Nazis murdered millions of people. May I ask, why? Can you cite me a source that only Jewish partisans were murdered? What about the Jewish women, children and old men?

You claim to be motivated by truth, but you are openly denying the fact that the Nazis murdered millions of Jews. I don’t call that being interested in the truth, I call that for what it is - denial.

What truth is to be realised?

“Bolshevik Juden aka Soviets” - most Soviets were not Jews. Are you unaware of the antisemitism that was prevalent during the Soviet Union?

I do have respect for those innocent Germans who were killed during the war and who were murdered by the invading Soviets. But, you are showing no respect for the Jews who were murdered by the Nazis and you’re claiming that the only Jews who were killed were partisans which of course is not true.

Most people know what National Socialism (Nazism) is and it is very unlikely to ever be the ideology in power in any country of the world again. It certainly hasn’t had any luck since 1945.

You claim that I don’t know what Nazism is, but you claim that it was inspired by many of the ideas of Karl Marx. Are you being serious? Nazism and Marxism are politically the complete opposite of each other. You described communism as “OK” in its ideal, do you know what the Nazis would have done if they had heard you say such a thing? Take a wild guess! Along with the Jews, communists were also described as subhumans.

You claim to be interested in truth, but let’s take one example of what you have posted - you denied that the Nazis carried out mass executions. I can only put that down to either you deliberately ignoring the evidence which clearly shows many mass executions happened or you have not studied the Third Reich. Which one is it?
No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite.” - Nelson Mandela

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