The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

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Nessie
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:59 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:29 pm
You are assuming that only very specific records were lost or destroyed in some sort of bizarre conspiracy.
This is in fact the case; the only people capable of this are the Soviet Union, a nation of murderers as evidenced by the 50 million or so; other sources put this much lower but that can be conceded for this.
Excess Mortality in the Soviet Union under Comrade Stalin
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The higher figure would be closer to the correct amount. Considering the extensive attempts to cover up Soviet crimes and blame the Reich at Katyn, there is no reason to suspect that the same was not attempted for der juden in their sphere of influence.

After the Katyn massacre was reported by Reich radio Moscow radio released a statement by the Sovinformburo news agency, placing the blame on the Nazis and declaring punishment for the crime committed by "German fascist killers". The first key paragraph alone contained the main theses on the German responsibility, and, in consequence, on the German provocation aimed at the USSR:
The results of the work of the Merkulov and Kruglov team, referred to as the "special commission, composed of representatives of relevant bodies", in the key period from 5 October 1943 to 10 January 1944, were summarized in the Information on the results of the preliminary investigation in the so-called Katyn case signed by both of them. In final conclusions, the Merkulov and Kruglov commission stated:
  • "Prisoners of war, Poles" stayed west of Smolensk "for road works" from spring 1940 to June 1941, i.e. until the beginning of the Soviet-German war.
  • The prisoners got into German captivity and were shot by the Germans at the end of August and in September 1941.
  • The shooting of Polish prisoners of war in the autumn of 1941 in the Katyn Forest was carried out by an "unknown German military institution" occupying a dacha in Kosogory and staying there until the end of September 1943 "Colonel Arnes was responsible for this institution , his closest associates and assistants in this bloody crime were: lieutenant Rechst and lieutenant Hott".
  • After the shooting of prisoners of war from Berlin in the autumn of 1941, as part of the provocation, the Germans "took many actions to attribute their vile crimes to Soviet authorities," which the commission recited.
Then, the NKVD-NKGB Committee also emphasized the fact of the simultaneous murder of 500 Russian prisoners, who were digging the Katyn graves, to cover up all the traces, so as to summarize at the last point with hypocritical emphasis that the case of the shooting of Polish prisoners of war is one of the elements of the German "policy of exterminating the ‘defective’ Slavic nations"

In 1989, Soviet scholars revealed Joseph Stalin had indeed ordered the massacre, and in 1990 Mikhail Gorbachev admitted the NKVD had executed the Poles and confirmed two other burial sites similar to the site at Katyn: Mednoye and Piatykhatky

While all was revealed some 49 years later (at least for Katyn) the mindset of Stalin and the NKVD would remain static for many more years to come, with more murders, oppression and malice.

When Poland was annexed again with the Soviet advance, the health and welfare of 1.7 million juden sent East would be of little concern to the Soviet hellhounds. Nothing could be simpler than saying their mortal enemy exterminated them like the Katyn Soldaten und Intellektuelle. The Soviet Extraordinary Commission who falsified papers and gathered fake witness evidence were adept at such malevolence.; their staff of 7 million sifted through train documents etc removing at will what they wanted. Poland was a Soviet State, the Commission had full authority authorized by Comrade Stalin.

Behind the "Iron Curtain", to make 1.7 million juden disappear would be a relatively easy task; they had previously deported a similar number inland prior to the evacuations by the Reich.
It is very easy to spot when you have plagiarised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

You are way off topic.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:14 pm
You are way off topic.
Trolling response with little attempt to read the material. It is clear that the Soviets and fabricate evidence and make witnesses say anything they wish along with the evidence they planted.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:20 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:14 pm
You are way off topic.
Trolling response with little attempt to read the material. It is clear that the Soviets and fabricate evidence and make witnesses say anything they wish along with the evidence they planted.
How did the Soviets force Nazis being tried in Germany, by Germans, in the 1960s, to lie about what happened?
How have the Soviets maintained the witness coercion, since the collapse of the SU in 1992?
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:31 pm
How did the Soviets force Nazis being tried in Germany, by Germans, in the 1960s, to lie about what happened?
How have the Soviets maintained the witness coercion, since the collapse of the SU in 1992?
People lie for many reasons, not the least being the threat of a bullet to the heads of their family members; such is the power of the NKVD, their successors the GPU, OGPU, NKGB. MGB, KGB currently the FSB and SVR; I am not sure if they had Novichok in those days to smear on door handles like at Salisbury. Germany (half of it) was also a puppet Russian state; the Secret Polizei being the Stasi, a puppet to the KGB second chief directorate.

The Russians are very professional at times, with few witnesses; those living are now dead (or killed); one should imagine that they would not want the alleged holocaust laid at their feet (bad for publicity :mrgreen: ); after all it is only 1.7 million people we are talking about. Perhaps they killed them like 8 million others, no one cares about.

Either way I am sure this is a huge state secret, which if true, must eventually burst out of the iron doors. The time is not yet right perhaps. I am sure Mr Putin knows.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:42 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:31 pm
How did the Soviets force Nazis being tried in Germany, by Germans, in the 1960s, to lie about what happened?
How have the Soviets maintained the witness coercion, since the collapse of the SU in 1992?
People lie for many reasons, not the least being the threat of a bullet to the heads of their family members; such is the power of the NKVD, their successors the GPU, OGPU, NKGB. MGB, KGB currently the FSB and SVR; I am not sure if they had Novichok in those days to smear on door handles like at Salisbury. Germany (half of it) was also a puppet Russian state; the Secret Polizei being the Stasi, a puppet to the KGB second chief directorate.

The Russians are very professional at times, with few witnesses; those living are now dead (or killed); one should imagine that they would not want the alleged holocaust laid at their feet (bad for publicity :mrgreen: ); after all it is only 1.7 million people we are talking about. Perhaps they killed them like 8 million others, no one cares about.

Either way I am sure this is a huge state secret, which if true, must eventually burst out of the iron doors. The time is not yet right perhaps. I am sure Mr Putin knows.
You imply witness coercion, you have no evidence it happened.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:44 pm
You imply witness coercion, you have no evidence it happened.
It is a funny thing about top secret Government initiatives, not many people know about it. This is why their are spies. On that note, I am unsure if the SOE or OSS were sophisticated enough to have spied on an ally during the war; being in that zone of operation would have been very very dangerous. I am sure the Russians are suspected of skulduggery.
You are right: either the Nazis killed these juden or the Russians hid their presence (or murdered them)
The evidence for the Nazis is slim despite the smear campaigns; the Russians have a proven track record of murder, skulduggery, malice and mayhem.


𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:02 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:44 pm
You imply witness coercion, you have no evidence it happened.
It is a funny thing about top secret Government initiatives, not many people know about it. This is why their are spies. On that note, I am unsure if the SOE or OSS were sophisticated enough to have spied on an ally during the war; being in that zone of operation would have been very very dangerous. I am sure the Russians are suspected of skulduggery.
You are right: either the Nazis killed these juden or the Russians hid their presence (or murdered them)
The evidence for the Nazis is slim ...
The Nazis admit they did it. There is physical, documentary, photographic and witness evidence that they massacred Jews by shooting and gassings.
...despite the smear campaigns; the Russians have a proven track record of murder, skulduggery, malice and mayhem.
There is no evidence the Soviets massacred or hid c5.5 million Jews and then coerced Nazis into accepting the blame. Nazis have been admitting to what happened even over the past few years, decades after the fall of the SU. Oskar Groening was not coerced by the Soviets into admitting he saw a gassing at Birkenau.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:18 pm
The Nazis admit they did it. There is physical, documentary, photographic and witness evidence that they massacred Jews by shooting and gassings.
This evidence is only in the mind of the poster. Partizani were shot as terrorists and for reprisals, which rightly or wrongly is a part of German law and had been for centuries. Civilian combatants are liable to summary execution. There were many non juden shot as well; the world just concentrates on the ethnicity of a small group.
There is no evidence the Soviets massacred or hid c5.5 million Jews and then coerced Nazis into accepting the blame. Nazis have been admitting to what happened even over the past few years, decades after the fall of the SU. Oskar Groening was not coerced by the Soviets into admitting he saw a gassing at Birkenau.
There was no mention of 5.5 million people, just the approx 1.2 million deported by the Soviets and the 1.7 million mentioned by Korherr. This can be rounded up to a nice 3 million if one wishes.

Some members of the SS might have spoken some mistruths for whatever, reason but Herr Hitler aware of the allegation was also aware of Soviet culpability; there was a war to win with that being a minor consideration. Oskar saw nothing, he was some silly no body counting shekels in an office well away from anything; he wanted a bit of fame but the old fool fell on his nose. Dementia had much to play with some of these wannabies.

All the fingers point to Russia; get used to it as that is the obvious culprit. You will look rather stupid when they admit it all one day. :ugeek:
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𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Nessie »

Huntinger wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:48 pm
Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:18 pm
The Nazis admit they did it. There is physical, documentary, photographic and witness evidence that they massacred Jews by shooting and gassings.
This evidence is only in the mind of the poster.
No, that evidence has been gathered by numerous historians since the end of the war.
Partizani were shot as terrorists and for reprisals, which rightly or wrongly is a part of German law and had been for centuries. Civilian combatants are liable to summary execution. There were many non juden shot as well; the world just concentrates on the ethnicity of a small group.
Why do accept the evidence for mass shootings but not for mass gassings?
There is no evidence the Soviets massacred or hid c5.5 million Jews and then coerced Nazis into accepting the blame. Nazis have been admitting to what happened even over the past few years, decades after the fall of the SU. Oskar Groening was not coerced by the Soviets into admitting he saw a gassing at Birkenau.
There was no mention of 5.5 million people, just the approx 1.2 million deported by the Soviets and the 1.7 million mentioned by Korherr. This can be rounded up to a nice 3 million if one wishes.
You are dodging there is no evidence the Soviets coerced Oskar Groening.
Some members of the SS might have spoken some mistruths for whatever, reason but Herr Hitler aware of the allegation was also aware of Soviet culpability; there was a war to win with that being a minor consideration. Oskar saw nothing, he was some silly no body counting shekels in an office well away from anything; he wanted a bit of fame but the old fool fell on his nose. Dementia had much to play with some of these wannabies.

All the fingers point to Russia; get used to it as that is the obvious culprit. You will look rather stupid when they admit it all one day. :ugeek:
...
The SU collapsed in 1992. How has it continued to maintain a supposed hoax since then, such that Nazis are still admitting gassings decades later?

Your waffle and plagiarism is just going to get you put back on ignore again.
Consistency and standards in evidencing viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2721#p87772
My actual argument viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2834

Scott - On a side note, this forum is turning into a joke with the vicious attacks--and completely unnecessary vitriol--that everybody is making upon each other.

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Re: The 'Achilles heel' of 'THE holocaust' - witnesses!

Post by Huntinger »

Nessie wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:10 pm
No, that evidence has been gathered by numerous historians since the end of the war.
The vast majority being juden; that said there is nothing presented that is credible, just adminicles and more hearsay.
Why do accept the evidence for mass shootings but not for mass gassings?
The mass shooting of terrorists as horrible as it was is understandable in the context, especially considering the number of Heer soldaten who had been murdered and disfigured by these afreet misguided people. Bullets kill people efficiently, gas does not in the context of the evidence presented to this forum to date. Sarin was invented by the Reich, with about 10 tonnes produced. Sarin in its purest form is estimated to be 26 times more deadly than cyanide; if this chemical was used in lieu of the motor claims and cyanide claims there might be some credibility. If there was an organized program of mass extermination this would be the agent of choice, not the ad hoc arrangements constantly discussed here.
You are dodging there is no evidence the Soviets coerced Oskar Groening.

I am sure I mentioned dementia.
The SU collapsed in 1992. How has it continued to maintain a supposed hoax since then, such that Nazis are still admitting gassings decades later?
Mr Putin was a member of the Soviet KGB, who was assigned to Germany prior to the collapse of the Berlin wall. It was mentioned that the Russkis would not like this alleged holocaust placed at their feet albeit their predecessor Comrade Stalin. 1.7 million juden whisked away into the interior (or shot) would be nothing to those fiends of near historical times.

Balancing up the scales, wiping away the deliberate smear tactics, the Reich did nothing wrong. Considering the jüdische lechery prevalent today, the Reich was perfectly correct to intern then remove a cancerous toxic species to the Russian East.
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𝖀𝖒𝖆𝖗𝖒𝖊 𝖉𝖆𝖘 𝕷𝖊𝖇𝖊𝖓, 𝖓𝖎𝖈𝖍𝖙 𝖆𝖚𝖘𝖇𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖊𝖓.
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